Two people ranked first in course (3 Viewers)

[BobMoo]

NOO ITS NOT UP TO THE SCHOOL!! In fact the teacher's not allowed to do that and he/she HAS TO submit an equal first. The Board of Studies says that teachers are unable to mark accurately to decimal places so therefore they MUST round up or down final marks. In other words, your teacher has to ignore your 0.25% difference and give you equal first, Board of Studies rule made clear by our teachers. Just remind him/her about that and they've got no choice.

 

[BOSBOY]

While it is true that schools submit only whole marks to BOS, there is nothing to stop them transforming or standardising marks before they are rounded and submitted to BOS. For example if a class of three has marks 97.4, 96.8 and 94.2 then all the school has to do is add 0.6 to everyone's mark (note, relative differences are preserved!) and then the marks become 98.0, 97.4 and 94.8. After rounding, the whole marks become 98, 97, 95. Yes, we have an outright first!

 

[cem]

NOO ITS NOT UP TO THE SCHOOL!! In fact the teacher's not allowed to do that and he/she HAS TO submit an equal first. The Board of Studies says that teachers are unable to mark accurately to decimal places so therefore they MUST round up or down final marks. In other words, your teacher has to ignore your 0.25% difference and give you equal first, Board of Studies rule made clear by our teachers. Just remind him/her about that and they've got no choice.

I don't know where your teachers are getting this idea.

My school has regularly separated students over 2 decimal places with no problems from the BOS.

Please post a link to BOS rules that tell schools that as I haven't heard that one and even had one Director of Studies discussed with me the possibility of separating two students by going to four decimal places but we decided that as they couldn't be separated at two decimal places we would send them in equal 1st and let the final assessment task of the HSC sort them out (that final task worth 50% - otherwise called the HSC exam).

 

[minimax_AI]

Didnt they only recently introduce this retarded concept of equal first?

it's stupid if you ask me - there can only be ONE

 

[Aerath]

Didnt they only recently introduce this retarded concept of equal first?

it's stupid if you ask me - there can only be ONE

Yeah, so two people getting the same marks in every assessment all year shouldn't be equal first?

Furthermore, it is possible for there to be two equal firsts.

 

[mark H]

Yeah, so two people getting the same marks in every assessment all year shouldn't be equal first?

Furthermore, it is possible for there to be two equal firsts.

Mate no one even mentioned 2 people with the EXACT same mark, we're talking about a difference here of less than 1 %.

 

[asianese]

It is probably impossible to have an EXACT value because for subjects bar English (which are always /15 or /20) you'll get these immense decimals, even nonterminating decimals. Therefore there is some rounding to be done.

My maths head teacher explained to us that they do Z scoring - where they take your mark, take away the average, and then divide it by the standard deviation. Then weigh the Z scores according to the weighing of the assessment mark and then add them up. With this method, I ended up being Eq 1st with 2 other people.

I think its up to the school to decide whether they will send in Eq 1st/2nd or whatever. I know in English the department tries to split the top 5 people because usually they are so close. Split being add or subtract to get nicer numbers and then round etc etc. It is up to the school.

But, our head explained that just by weighing the raw marks and adding them won't produce a good indication of rank, as you have not factored in each assessment tasks' outcome (the rank). Ie the average and the standard deviation. So he uses Z scores - which is better.

 

[Aerath]

Mate no one even mentioned 2 people with the EXACT same mark, we're talking about a difference here of less than 1 %.

minimax's post had the implication that it was a no-ifs-no-buts situation - that noone, no matter the situation, would be able to have equal firsts.

 

[BobMoo]

Can you link me the full set of rules from the Board of Studies altogether? No, because they're not available to students. These are something that they tell teachers, and since your school has had no problems with it in the past, I'm pretty sure they've changed the marks around without the Board of Studies knowing (since they're allowed to scale the marks themselves). But if you can prove that you have the same mark as First Place (after rounding your RAW scores), you can complain because they have to give you the mark. Now I don't see any reason for my teachers to make something up like that as it makes no difference to them?

 

[BOSBOY]

No secrets there. Click on the following link
http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/manuals/pdf_doc/ace_manual_withlinks.pdf
and go to
8.13.3 Development of HSC internal assessment programs

And you will never be able to prove that "you have the same mark as First Place" as the marks of another student remain confidential.