Year 11 2014 Chat :) (13 Viewers)

[Axio]

Since when did I mention you had to be a state ranker? The primary concern I have with her "service" is the implications behind it. Why can't the limit be a 'first come first serve basis?'. I'm not asking her to mark every essay that comes her way, I'm simply asking why she is discriminating against standard or ESL students when she and I quote,
Ironically those who do Standard english and ESL may be the ones who require more help in their essays. THis is a huge generalisation but an appropriate one. Advanced english, as a course is offered for students who are on a higher level of english than Standard or ESL. That isn't to say that advanced students don't require any help, but generally they will perhaps require less of, from another advanced student as opposed to what a standard student might. There is no leverage she can give to an advanced student - she is in the same cohort as all prelim students - which I'm assuming is the targeted audience.

The rest of my argument is just nit-picking her choice of wording - i.e bolding "free essay marking" implies that there is a reason why her service shouldn't be free - when there isn't a reason.(b/c of her lack of credentials). And don't tell me the "My essays are always 19-20/20" is one, unless you can argue that from the information she has presented we know:

a) How well her cohort does in English in the HSC

b) How harshly the class/cohort/school is marked

Fact of matter. We don't.

To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying.

I can't be bothered continuing from here but 'to sum it up', I still don't agree with you (not that you were saying I had to).

 

[hawkrider]

Just a warning in advance that I'm going to post a lengthy tldr, so brace yourselves!

EDIT: may take a while to do because I'm really tired atm and I have other commitments.

 

[turnerloos]

just a warning in advance that i'm going to post a lengthy tldr, so brace yourselves!

Edit: May take a while to do because i'm really tired atm and i have other commitments.

my body is ready

 

[happyhunter]

Does anyone know where I can find a general maths yearly exam?? I can only find HSC ones! (my teacher is shocking so I'm trying to learn the subject on my own with as little help as possible, he actually told me once to just keep typing the numbers in until I got the right answer!!)

Did you receive my PM? Hope you did!

 

[rawrliongirl]

hiii! I haven't been on in a while but I need some help. I'm writing a story for English and in this particular part this guy is in a noisy-ish area however he is so lost in thought that he can't really hear the noise around him...even though it is quite noisy. how would you describe that? is there an idiom that I could use or something? I just put that his mind was racing and the noise was drowned out but i dont know if that's the right way to explain it.
has anyone else ever felt that sensation? that theyre so lost in thought or so nervous or something that everything around them is sort of drowned out or becomes background noise but you can't really hear it?
idk. am i overthinking this?
either way, i need to find a better way to say it :S
fanks.

 

[rawrliongirl]

Oh and one more thing! Can anyone give me some tips on how to increase the sophistication of my essays because for pretty much every essay, the teacher's feedback will always say something about being more sophisticated.

 

[Hayley1]

I am doing
- Chemistry
- Mathematics
- English (standard)
- PDHPE
- Studies of Religion I
- Biology

 

[BLIT2014]

Does anyone know where I can find a general maths yearly exam?? I can only find HSC ones! (my teacher is shocking so I'm trying to learn the subject on my own with as little help as possible, he actually told me once to just keep typing the numbers in until I got the right answer!!)

Can you get last years preliminary from your school? Then you are in a position to 'swap' with other people from different schools.
Also reminder 2013 General Mathematics course changed.

 

[Fiction]

I can't be bothered continuing from here but 'to sum it up', I still don't agree with you (not that you were saying I had to).

Fine by me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

EDIT:
I don't understand why you're quoting the "to sum it up" though. It holds no significance towards your argument - or post at all.

 

[Fiction]

Oh and one more thing! Can anyone give me some tips on how to increase the sophistication of my essays because for pretty much every essay, the teacher's feedback will always say something about being more sophisticated.

Well, if you're an advanced student you can always ask aiming4dental school. If you're not, then toughie. Such is the way of discrimination.

In all seriousness, an essay doesn't have to be sophisticated argueably. You can get away with a simple argument + simple language as long as your argument flows.

What part of your essay specifically are you teachers asking you to make more complicated? If it's language, then just invest in a thesaurus (or look up thesauruses online). If it's your argument, then I suggest you to incorporate more themes or examine your current issue/topic in greater detail. Also, when you can, aim for textual integrity as well.

 

[Loudvicuna]

hiii! I haven't been on in a while but I need some help. I'm writing a story for English and in this particular part this guy is in a noisy-ish area however he is so lost in thought that he can't really hear the noise around him...even though it is quite noisy. how would you describe that? is there an idiom that I could use or something? I just put that his mind was racing and the noise was drowned out but i dont know if that's the right way to explain it.
has anyone else ever felt that sensation? that theyre so lost in thought or so nervous or something that everything around them is sort of drowned out or becomes background noise but you can't really hear it?
idk. am i overthinking this?
either way, i need to find a better way to say it :S
fanks.

He was so consumed in his own thoughts that he became oblivious to his surroundings?

 

[Carsbooks]

I'm curious. How does everyone here study for English?

I'm alluding to the upcoming/recent exams with an in-class response - essays, creatives..

Does anyone here memorise a generic essay? Or just memorise quotes and the underlying themes/characters of the text? I find it immensely difficult to study whilst expected to write under such onerous time constraints.

Hi Ipodtouch!

I think the easiest way to study english to have some prewritten materials that you can adapt to the question. It's not just memorising, you need to be able to actually explain your quotes and themes. And memorising an essay doesn't actually help :/ It's memorising the content/ brief outline

 

[hawkrider]

Preface: This is not a personal attack on everyone - Fiction and Axio, you guys have some valid points, but I just want to clear out this debate by pointing out a few of the flaws in your arguments (especially yours Fiction, no offence).

The reasoning behind, oh let's be in the same grade, doing the same module, so I can "help you" as best as I can possibly can, doesn't work, because if you're doing the same module, you're not learning ahead - you can't give them an edge in their essays because you don't know the content better than them. And if you don't, then why are you insisting only to mark those who do the same course as you?

If you really wanted to help people, you would either offer this "service" to all courses rather than specifically targeting advanced English, and target lower grades as you'll probably be more of a help there. Also, you wouldn't advertise your post as a "free essay marking" because this suggests that you have reason to not make it free. And you don't.

To be honest, regardless of whether she doesn't do the same texts as her peers, she is still within the scope of marking essays, although that will pertain more to your essay structure and how you analyse quotes and techniques rather than deeper thematic concepts which she might not be as familiar with if it is a text she has not studied. In spite of that, conveying your ideas on an interpretation of a text can be redundant without being able to express what you're saying coherently - even if you go on about how the author's existential nihilism compels audiences to rethink their ways of thinking, it would still be considered a moot point with clunky wording of your sentences.

There's nothing wrong with aiming4medschool offering her services specialising in English; not everyone is a potential all-rounder. In fact, she may not be presenting her services with her other subjects because she feels that her feedback may stumble the students over. So blatantly stating that she is great at English and wants to provide assistance actually says something.

I don't think that there is anything at all wrong with what she is doing... since when did you have to be an English State-ranker to give advice on an essay? And there is a limit to how many essays and hence subjects that a person can do corrections on out of their own spare time.

I'm amazed how tutors can manage their time alright with uni life, marking essays, etc.

Well, I think there's been a general consensus arising over the years that higher marks = more likely for students to derive benefit. Which in my opinion is totally wrong. It's basically like this example I'm going to give.

Imagine a football club (team Y) - you have the players, the staff members from the board, whatever. For the last 5 years, your team is in disarray leading to discontentment among the fans who eventually dissipate into the distance and there is immense difficulty sustaining the club financially. Recently, your manager has been sacked due to not achieving progress, and the board has two options for the next fill-in. They can either pick:

a) Bill:
- Has 11 years of experience
- Achieved 8 premierships across 4 different teams
- A well known tactician of the game and knows the ins and outs of his squad once he gets to know them for X amount of time

b) Jack:
- Relatively new to the coaching field
- No experience managing a professional club, only within the junior ranks
- Was recently assistant manger to another club under the tutelage of a well respected football manager

Looking at this two choices, it's obvious that team Y would pick Bill because he certainty has the expertise in his area. But does that necessarily mean it will translate to success? Of course not! Why? Because sometimes the more experienced one will get sacked in his run coaching Y club and the amateur would win the premiership in his first season, surpassing his and the fans expectations.

The same analogy applies to tutors/or high schoolers willing to help out. Just because a tutor lists their credentials as a 99.95er doesn't mean that they will be able to succeed. It all comes down to whether they are able to utilise their interpersonal skills to effectively communicate the concepts their students may not understand completely. I would rather have a tutor who got a modest ATAR that can explain stuff very thoroughly as opposed to a tutor who state-ranked several subjects but are so socially inept that their marks can't save their life. (this happened to me personally and other friends I know).

Ironically those who do Standard english and ESL may be the ones who require more help in their essays. THis is a huge generalisation but an appropriate one.

No it's not. After marking several essays from the Advanced people in my cohort and other schools, this is far from the case.

 

[Therese98]

Hey! Did anyone else's school get into the Gallipoli trip ballot?
Ours did (Hooray!) and as we are so small, I have a big chance of getting in. (Double hooray!)
Anyone else going to try to come?
This is when Prime interviewed us about it;
https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/v1/news/a/-/local/24879896/gallipoli-honour-for-local-kids-video/
I am interviewed last.
Looking forward to hearing from some other people who I might (just might) meet on the trip next April!!!!!

 

[rawrliongirl]

He was so consumed in his own thoughts that he became oblivious to his surroundings?

that's so good! thankssss xD ive got writers block so im like waaaah i cant think of anything.

 

[matchalolz]

Now I know next exam period I am not leaving exam preparation to the last minute, so tired after two exams :3
luckily english extension is tomorrow and everyone knows how much I care about that

 

[Fiction]

Preface: This is not a personal attack on everyone - Fiction and Axio, you guys have some valid points, but I just want to clear out this debate by pointing out a few of the flaws in your arguments (especially yours Fiction, no offence).

None taken.

To be honest, regardless of whether she doesn't do the same texts as her peers, she is still within the scope of marking essays, although that will pertain more to your essay structure and how you analyse quotes and techniques rather than deeper thematic concepts which she might not be as familiar with if it is a text she has not studied. In spite of that, conveying your ideas on an interpretation of a text can be redundant without being able to express what you're saying coherently - even if you go on about how the author's existential nihilism compels audiences to rethink their ways of thinking, it would still be considered a moot point with clunky wording of your sentences.

You just proved my point rather than contradict it. An essay is an essay, regardless of whether it's from Advanced English or Standard English. She cannot give advanced students any leverage which cannot be given to standard students. Hence there is no reason for her discrimination based upon English courses. My main issue with her "service" is her discrimination based upon English courses. I repeat, She cannot give advanced students any leverage which cannot be given to standard students.

There's nothing wrong with aiming4medschool offering her services specialising in English; not everyone is a potential all-rounder.

Refer to my previous post, esp this quote "To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying."

In fact, she may not be presenting her services with her other subjects because she feels that her feedback may stumble the students over. So blatantly stating that she is great at English and wants to provide assistance actually says something.

Not getting it. Are you trying to base someone's capabilities based on their own belief? Because there can be a gray line between belief and delusion. Besides, can you confirm her legitimacy based upon that post alone? No. Refer to my prev post for why.

Well, I think there's been a general consensus arising over the years that higher marks = more likely for students to derive benefit. Which in my opinion is totally wrong. It's basically like this example I'm going to give.

Imagine a football club (team Y) - you have the players, the staff members from the board, whatever. For the last 5 years, your team is in disarray leading to discontentment among the fans who eventually dissipate into the distance and there is immense difficulty sustaining the club financially. Recently, your manager has been sacked due to not achieving progress, and the board has two options for the next fill-in. They can either pick:

a) Bill:
- Has 11 years of experience
- Achieved 8 premierships across 4 different teams
- A well known tactician of the game and knows the ins and outs of his squad once he gets to know them for X amount of time

b) Jack:
- Relatively new to the coaching field
- No experience managing a professional club, only within the junior ranks
- Was recently assistant manger to another club under the tutelage of a well respected football manager

Looking at this two choices, it's obvious that team Y would pick Bill because he certainty has the expertise in his area. But does that necessarily mean it will translate to success? Of course not! Why? Because sometimes the more experienced one will get sacked in his run coaching Y club and the amateur would win the premiership in his first season, surpassing his and the fans expectations.

The same analogy applies to tutors/or high schoolers willing to help out. Just because a tutor lists their credentials as a 99.95er doesn't mean that they will be able to succeed. It all comes down to whether they are able to utilise their interpersonal skills to effectively communicate the concepts their students may not understand completely. I would rather have a tutor who got a modest ATAR that can explain stuff very thoroughly as opposed to a tutor who state-ranked several subjects but are so socially inept that their marks can't save their life. (this happened to me personally and other friends I know).

Again, my problem isn't with her actually marking the essays. My main problem lies in her discriminating which essays to mark. I've addressed the credibility concern later in this post.

Put it this way. If Bill and Jack both have the same level of communication skills, who do you think will be able to teach better? That's right, Bill. Now consider this. We're on the net. It's not hard to type out posts which you can essentially edit, and re-edit to your heart's content before posting. It's not an improtu teaching session done face to face. Provided both Bill and Jack have the ability to write coherent sentences, their communication ability is all but the same.

Unfortunately tutoring ability does not equate to marking abilities. Tutoring requires actual face-to face communication skills, confidence, impromtu speaking (to an extent) etc. Typing a comment on a word document, does not require these same skills. But let's just take your tutoring example for the heck of it.

How exactly would you ~discover~ that this modest atar tutor posses all these tutoring virtues? A person's credentials indicates their level of interest/ability/passion for whatever they're advertising. The general majority will go for the .95, state ranker precisely because of the mentioned traits.
Furthermore, we're talking about english here. It's all about communication/forming arguments. I doubt someone who scored high in English in the HSC, who has had that experience, who is likely to have written more essays than Aiming4dental will communicate relatively ~worser~ than a Prelim student. Such is the nature of english~ You're not really challenging my main argument, hence not you haven't

"clear up this debate"

No it's not. After marking several essays from the Advanced people in my cohort and other schools, this is far from the case.

One would assume that for the majority, Advanced students are, to say the least, more advanced than Standard English students. They should have at least somewhat a better grasp of essay skills than Standard.The HSC english course was made so that standard english could cater for
those students who don't do as well in english as opposed to advanced students. Again I'm talking about the majority. I mean the top ranked standard student would obv have a better understanding of english than botton ranked Advanced student (duh).

So for the most part, the generalisation still holds true. Even if it didn't, like what I've mentioned above, there's no advantage an advanced student can give to another advanced student which they cannot give to a standard student .

I repeat, "To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying."

 

[Fiction]

I forgot to mention - Hawkie, rather than pointing out the flaws in my argument, you've ironically re-affirmed them. Also, which points of Axios did you rebut exactly?

If I've typed out anything that has offended anyone, please let me know. I've tried to make my argument relatively passive. Keep in mind this is my take on this discussion. No one is under any obligations to agree or disagree.

 

[hawkrider]

None taken.



You just proved my point rather than contradict it. An essay is an essay, regardless of whether it's from Advanced English or Standard English. She cannot give advanced students any leverage which cannot be given to standard students. Hence there is no reason for her discrimination based upon English courses. My main issue with her "service" is her discrimination based upon English courses. I repeat, She cannot give advanced students any leverage which cannot be given to standard students.


Refer to my previous post, esp this quote "To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying."


Not getting it. Are you trying to base someone's capabilities based on their own belief? Because there can be a gray line between belief and delusion. Besides, can you confirm her legitimacy based upon that post alone? No. Refer to my prev post for why.



Again, my problem isn't with her actually marking the essays. My main problem lies in her discriminating which essays to mark. I've addressed the credibility concern later in this post.

Put it this way. If Bill and Jack both have the same level of communication skills, who do you think will be able to teach better? That's right, Bill. Now consider this. We're on the net. It's not hard to type out posts which you can essentially edit, and re-edit to your heart's content before posting. It's not an improtu teaching session done face to face. Provided both Bill and Jack have the ability to write coherent sentences, their communication ability is all but the same.

Unfortunately tutoring ability does not equate to marking abilities. Tutoring requires actual face-to face communication skills, confidence, impromtu speaking (to an extent) etc. Typing a comment on a word document, does not require these same skills. But let's just take your tutoring example for the heck of it.

How exactly would you ~discover~ that this modest atar tutor posses all these tutoring virtues? A person's credentials indicates their level of interest/ability/passion for whatever they're advertising. The general majority will go for the .95, state ranker precisely because of the mentioned traits.
Furthermore, we're talking about english here. It's all about communication/forming arguments. I doubt someone who scored high in English in the HSC, who has had that experience, who is likely to have written more essays than Aiming4dental will communicate relatively ~worser~ than a Prelim student. Such is the nature of english~ You're not really challenging my main argument, hence not you haven't


One would assume that for the majority, Advanced students are, to say the least, more advanced than Standard English students. They should have at least somewhat a better grasp of essay skills than Standard.The HSC english course was made so that standard english could cater for
those students who don't do as well in english as opposed to advanced students. Again I'm talking about the majority. I mean the top ranked standard student would obv have a better understanding of english than botton ranked Advanced student (duh).

So for the most part, the generalisation still holds true. Even if it didn't, like what I've mentioned above, there's no advantage an advanced student can give to another advanced student which they cannot give to a standard student .

I repeat, "To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying."

Thanks for staying up this evening to discuss this with me. It's been enjoyable as you've raised a lot of valid points. I'm going to reluctantly concede merit in your first part above - I admit that my take on the credentials of markers has been shifted by my own experiences with tutors and the peers I work alongside that mostly consist of high-achieving students.

Yeah, I should've made it clear that I was merely expanding on what Axio said lol. And cmon m8, sure I may have contradicted myself and had gone off a tangent but that was because I'm really tired and drained from a busy week, so have some grace man.

 

[Axio]

None taken.



You just proved my point rather than contradict it. An essay is an essay, regardless of whether it's from Advanced English or Standard English. She cannot give advanced students any leverage which cannot be given to standard students. Hence there is no reason for her discrimination based upon English courses. My main issue with her "service" is her discrimination based upon English courses. I repeat, She cannot give advanced students any leverage which cannot be given to standard students.


Refer to my previous post, esp this quote "To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying."


Not getting it. Are you trying to base someone's capabilities based on their own belief? Because there can be a gray line between belief and delusion. Besides, can you confirm her legitimacy based upon that post alone? No. Refer to my prev post for why.



Again, my problem isn't with her actually marking the essays. My main problem lies in her discriminating which essays to mark. I've addressed the credibility concern later in this post.

Put it this way. If Bill and Jack both have the same level of communication skills, who do you think will be able to teach better? That's right, Bill. Now consider this. We're on the net. It's not hard to type out posts which you can essentially edit, and re-edit to your heart's content before posting. It's not an improtu teaching session done face to face. Provided both Bill and Jack have the ability to write coherent sentences, their communication ability is all but the same.

Unfortunately tutoring ability does not equate to marking abilities. Tutoring requires actual face-to face communication skills, confidence, impromtu speaking (to an extent) etc. Typing a comment on a word document, does not require these same skills. But let's just take your tutoring example for the heck of it.

How exactly would you ~discover~ that this modest atar tutor posses all these tutoring virtues? A person's credentials indicates their level of interest/ability/passion for whatever they're advertising. The general majority will go for the .95, state ranker precisely because of the mentioned traits.
Furthermore, we're talking about english here. It's all about communication/forming arguments. I doubt someone who scored high in English in the HSC, who has had that experience, who is likely to have written more essays than Aiming4dental will communicate relatively ~worser~ than a Prelim student. Such is the nature of english~ You're not really challenging my main argument, hence not you haven't


One would assume that for the majority, Advanced students are, to say the least, more advanced than Standard English students. They should have at least somewhat a better grasp of essay skills than Standard.The HSC english course was made so that standard english could cater for
those students who don't do as well in english as opposed to advanced students. Again I'm talking about the majority. I mean the top ranked standard student would obv have a better understanding of english than botton ranked Advanced student (duh).

So for the most part, the generalisation still holds true. Even if it didn't, like what I've mentioned above, there's no advantage an advanced student can give to another advanced student which they cannot give to a standard student .

I repeat, "To sum it up, there's nothing wrong with what's she's doing. There's something I personally find wrong with her choice of wording (ironic since she's offering english services) and something inherent wrong/contradictory/hypcritical in what she's saying."

tl;dr


































i actually did