Does God exist? (17 Viewers)

[dan964]

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIC1aRandom.shtml

That said natural selection isn't entirely random either.

 

[dan964]

Science is "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." In other words, science is not a "thing", it is a process by which we find out what is true and what is not.

What you are saying is that there are some things which "cannot be investigated by science". In other words, there are some things which we cannot find out using the process by which we find things out (i.e. science).

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1. You assume that science is the only discipline in which we can find things out. That said despite it being a good discipline it is limited to the mental capacity and the instruments of the people who conduct such experiments. They are many things which are incomprehensible in mathematics and science
2. Science is a discipline of study that relies on observation or experimentation. Some times however speculation and inferences come to play hence the definition of theory. I'd like to think of it as society's best minds explanation.
Theory:
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained
By the process you mean the scientific method of experimenting.

History is another discipline of study and it has its methods too.

If history accounts something that cannot possibly be explained scientifically, does it mean it couldn't happened.
No it just means there is either some natural explanation or simply a case of that was not what I expected.

For example if an account of someone rising from the dead is written and can be historically dated, how do you verify its truthfulness? (rhetorical)

The point is if we just use scientific method to try to explain some things it is an attempt to rationalise, normalise or naturalise what can only be described as rare or unexplainable.

 

[WrittenLoveLetters]

Only if he magically gives me a 99.95 ATAR

Nah well, I mean, if you believe in it, believe in it. Part of being human is having hope and faith, even though this God is not a tangible human being etc. I personally don't believe in the Christian God. But since I'm Chinese Buddhism, although I'm confused on what deity I should be thinking of, I respect my family's beliefs and with that, I believe in it too.

I also pray for my HSC to go well every time I'm at that temple LOL.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Only if he magically gives me a 99.95 ATAR

Nah well, I mean, if you believe in it, believe in it. Part of being human is having hope and faith, even though this God is not a tangible human being etc. I personally don't believe in the Christian God. But since I'm Chinese Buddhism, although I'm confused on what deity I should be thinking of, I respect my family's beliefs and with that, I believe in it too.

I also pray for my HSC to go well every time I'm at that temple LOL.

That 99.95 will be down to your attitude and hard work lol

God or no god.

If you don't do anything .... You won't get that 99.95 regardless

 

[WrittenLoveLetters]

That 99.95 will be down to your attitude and hard work lol

God or no god.

If you don't do anything .... You won't get that 99.95 regardless

I know that I was making a joke actually, I'm not someone who bases their whole life on just believing and praying something will happen. I don't know who is stupid enough to believe that achievements are conquered with religious beliefs, and purely just that.

 

[nerdasdasd]

I know that I was making a joke actually, I'm not someone who bases their whole life on just believing and praying something will happen. I don't know who is stupid enough to believe that achievements are conquered with religious beliefs, and purely just that.

Haha

 

[Drsoccerball]

I think I have like kind of given up on religion all together. I believe in a god but I suck at practicing religion, well it's like knowing you have parents but you don't listen to them a lot.

Is that laziness ahaha ?

 

[dan964]

I'd like to point out that not all religions involve a God or gods and a belief in God does not mean religion.

 

[sinophile]

God has died!!!!! If god exists he must be an evil person, there is so much suffering in life, only 0.01% of life is good things, everything else is bad.

 

[Drsoccerball]

God has died!!!!! If god exists he must be an evil person, there is so much suffering in life, only 0.01% of life is good things, everything else is bad.

If god dies then he cant be a god since it goes against the nature of god (Everlasting). By making things hard in this world God eases our life in the next world. Eg: If i have back pains all the time that would reduce my punishment in the next life or increase my reward in the next life. And you see suffering from earthquakes, tsunamis etc... It's just a veil for death like a car accident or heart attack. Every person has his or her ordained time so if its suppose to be by destruction of earth or a liver infection etc... thats the veil.

 

[Drsoccerball]

Maybe. I have too much to worry and think about in my life, so I can't really involve myself and have time for religion.

What if you die tomorrow ?

 

[Drsoccerball]

Hmm.. Well that's a tough question. Never thought about dying young...

I will probably become religious and practicing when I finish Uni, find a nice girl and get married. For now I am a young guy and so I want to have fun and party all the way till then! Being religious prevents you from doing all of that!

Many people die before they reach that age:/ its too much of a risk id rather attempt to become religious now then die tomorrow and say " I was going to party and have fun and then be religious after ive settled down"

In my religion one of the questions you're going to be asked on the day of resurrection is: "What did you do with your youth?" but its a personal choice

 

[Drsoccerball]

I just don't know how to keep the balance between the fun/party lifestyle and religion... I thought our whole youth was to have the most fun ever!

The problem is I don't know how to expect I could die before 30. Its hard to think about it. But its also possible. Just need to make sure I remain healthy and also remain pretty cautious.

Can't you do all the fun and partying and then later on ask god for forgiveness?

In my religion if that's your intention i dont think you can ahaha... However if you disobey God for 10,20,30,40,50,60,70...etc.. years and for once you say "God forgive me" and you sincerely mean it he will forgive you. Thats one of his names the most merciful the most forgiving... It all comes down to intention.

 

[Drsoccerball]

Ahh jeez... I am starting to really think about this. May I ask what's your religion?

Islam hbu?

 

[Drsoccerball]

I am the same mate. I don't come from a really religious family, its Ramadan and so we can't even give a hoot about fasting lol but most of my family overseas is like religious.

Its the most holy month akhi D: you have to make the most of it :/ As i said before you cant use that as an excuse D:

 

[Drsoccerball]

Its not really helpful when like your own parents are not even religious. Like whenever I visit my extended family overseas I suddenly turn into religious mode. But I am kind of still keen from time to time in religion.

The prophet abraham (AS) dad was a pagan ? You can't say that and he turned out to be a prophet. Just because your parents arnt religious doesn't stop you from becoming religious. And for you if you do become religious your reward will be greater than someone in a house hold with parents religious etc..

 

[PhysicsMaths]

'I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind...'
- Albert Einstein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVEeXjPiw54&feature=youtu.be&t=1m22s

 

[porcupinetree]

I just don't know how to keep the balance between the fun/party lifestyle and religion... I thought our whole youth was to have the most fun ever!

The problem is I don't know how to expect I could die before 30. Its hard to think about it. But its also possible. Just need to make sure I remain healthy and also remain pretty cautious.

Can't you do all the fun and partying and then later on ask god for forgiveness?

My advice (from a Christian perspective):

I personally have seen many people try to take this route, of attempting to have the most 'fun' in their youth and then become more religious later in life.
I can virtually guarantee that this plan won't work, and there's several problems with it which I would like to point out:

1. It assumes that life as a believer is less 'fun'. My perspective, and the perspective of many people who I've chatted to who have delved into the 'party lifestyle' is that while parties and the like are fun when you first become involved with them, they really don't end up satisfying you at all. Whereas having belief, in my situation, means knowledge that my whole eternity is secure with God. Think about it, if it is true that there is a God, and that eternity is real, then who cares how much shallow 'fun' you miss out on?

2. The 'party lifestyle' will draw you further and further away from God and religion, and you'll become a lot less warm to the idea of committing to a religion. This is both an observation that I've made in real life, and also linked to Christian doctrine (the deception of sin)

3. I'm not going to speak for other religions, but in terms of the statement:
'Can't you do all the fun and partying and then later on ask god for forgiveness?'
God's forgiveness is not to be exploited. God's ultimate act of love in sending Jesus deserves our commitment to serving him as Lord. Your question, while one I hear commonly among non-Christian friends, understands faith as something simply to be exploited in order to gain more happiness, prosperity etc. Asking for forgiveness involves actually repenting (being sincerely apologetic for past sins and deciding to turn away from that lifestyle), which is not an attitude which is evident in your question.

If you're thinking about these things, I strongly encourage you to continue. Can I urge you to consider what is actually true rather than what sounds true or sounds nice. If you're looking into Islam, ask yourself: can I trust the Qur'an? Can I trust Mohammad? Does the Qur'an have textual integrity? and the like.
If you're looking into Christianity, ask yourself: Can I trust the Bible? Did Jesus actually live, die, and come back to life? and the like.

Basically what I'm encouraging you to do is to consider the truth, rather than anything else. It is my belief that Christianity is much more plausibly true than any other world religion. Whereas other world religions may just be about trying to become a better person, Christianity is concerned with an actual real life person of history who lived 2000 years ago and who supposedly died and came back to life. If it's true that he did, then we can be sure that he was telling the truth about himself.

 

[Drsoccerball]

My advice (from a Christian perspective):

I personally have seen many people try to take this route, of attempting to have the most 'fun' in their youth and then become more religious later in life.
I can virtually guarantee that this plan won't work, and there's several problems with it which I would like to point out:

1. It assumes that life as a believer is less 'fun'. My perspective, and the perspective of many people who I've chatted to who have delved into the 'party lifestyle' is that while parties and the like are fun when you first become involved with them, they really don't end up satisfying you at all. Whereas having belief, in my situation, means knowledge that my whole eternity is secure with God. Think about it, if it is true that there is a God, and that eternity is real, then who cares how much shallow 'fun' you miss out on?

2. The 'party lifestyle' will draw you further and further away from God and religion, and you'll become a lot less warm to the idea of committing to a religion. This is both an observation that I've made in real life, and also linked to Christian doctrine (the deception of sin)

3. I'm not going to speak for other religions, but in terms of the statement:
'Can't you do all the fun and partying and then later on ask god for forgiveness?'
God's forgiveness is not to be exploited. God's ultimate act of love in sending Jesus deserves our commitment to serving him as Lord. Your question, while one I hear commonly among non-Christian friends, understands faith as something simply to be exploited in order to gain more happiness, prosperity etc. Asking for forgiveness involves actually repenting (being sincerely apologetic for past sins and deciding to turn away from that lifestyle), which is not an attitude which is evident in your question.

If you're thinking about these things, I strongly encourage you to continue. Can I urge you to consider what is actually true rather than what sounds true or sounds nice. If you're looking into Islam, ask yourself: can I trust the Qur'an? Can I trust Mohammad? Does the Qur'an have textual integrity? and the like.
If you're looking into Christianity, ask yourself: Can I trust the Bible? Did Jesus actually live, die, and come back to life? and the like.

Basically what I'm encouraging you to do is to consider the truth, rather than anything else. It is my belief that Christianity is much more plausibly true than any other world religion. Whereas other world religions may just be about trying to become a better person, Christianity is concerned with an actual real life person of history who lived 2000 years ago and who supposedly died and came back to life. If it's true that he did, then we can be sure that he was telling the truth about himself.

The major difference between islam and christianity is the status of jesus. (peace be upon him=(PBUH) while most christians raise him to a divine level muslims consider him as one of the mightiest messengers sent by god and islam is the only non christian faith which makes it an artical of faith to belive in Jesus(PBUH). A muslim isnt a muslim unless he believes that jesus (pbuh) was a messenger. For me it seems hard to take someone who was mortal and raise them to divinity. Even in the bible jesus(pbuh) never said "I am god" or "worship me" in fact he actually prayed! He fell on his face and prayed and who do you know that prays with their face on the floor today? Jesus(pbuh) also fasted. What really struck me about islam was its consistency, scientific facts and logic. For example the universe is expanding, the earth is egg shaped, the earth is a bed and the sky is a dome, the mountains are pegs, fingerprints being a way of differenciation etc... Its literary beauty with rhyme etc... The fact that its been preserved for over 1400 years is amazing. So again i think one of the major difference is the standing of jesus(pbuh)

 

[porcupinetree]

The major difference between islam and christianity is the status of jesus. (peace be upon him=(PBUH) while most christians raise him to a divine level muslims consider him as one of the mightiest messengers sent by god and islam is the only non christian faith which makes it an artical of faith to belive in Jesus(PBUH). A muslim isnt a muslim unless he believes that jesus (pbuh) was a messenger. For me it seems hard to take someone who was mortal and raise them to divinity. Even in the bible jesus(pbuh) never said "I am god" or "worship me" in fact he actually prayed! He fell on his face and prayed and who do you know that prays with their face on the floor today? Jesus(pbuh) also fasted. What really struck me about islam was its consistency, scientific facts and logic. For example the universe is expanding, the earth is egg shaped, the earth is a bed and the sky is a dome, the mountains are pegs, fingerprints being a way of differenciation etc... Its literary beauty with rhyme etc... The fact that its been preserved for over 1400 years is amazing. So again i think one of the major difference is the standing of jesus(pbuh)

Yes you're quite right, one major difference is the status of Jesus. However there are some other differences, e.g. the characteristics of God/Allah (contrast Romans 5:8 "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" with Surah 2:277 "God loves not the impious and sinners")

There's one thing that I'd just like to raise to your attention: you said that in the Bible, Jesus never claimed to be God. Here's a few verses from the gospels that contradict this:

John 14:9 "Anyone who has seen me has seen the father"
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I am!" ('I AM' is the name God gives himself in Exodus 3:14)
Throughout the gospels Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man (for example, Mark 2:10, Matthew 17:22, Luke 22:48, etc), which references Daniel 7: 13-14
Luke 5:20 "Friend, your sins are forgiven" - this is equivalent to Jesus claiming to be God, because in the Jewish religious milieu that Jesus was in, only God could forgive sins (Isaiah 43:25)

As far as Jesus praying, he prays to his Father, which according to Jesus, he is equal with (in John 5:17, Jesus is breaking the Sabbath, and the Jewish leaders begin to persecute him. Jesus says "My Father is always at work to this very day, and I too am working". John 5:18 then explicitly says that Jesus makes "himself equal with God"). While Jesus does claim to be equal with the Father, there can still be communication and different roles for both Jesus and the Father. This really comes down to doctrine about the trinity.

I appreciate your hesitancy in raising Jesus to a divine level, after all he was a man! However, the Jesus of the Bible certainly does claim to be divine, hence, if I believe that he truly did rise from the dead (as Jesus himself predicted several times, e.g. Matthew 20:19), then that is a strong indicator to me that he was telling the truth about his divinity.

I guess what you say struck you about Islam is what also strikes me about Christianity: the textual integrity of the Bible, and also my experience of life.