Electrical Engineering or Software Engineering/Computer Science (3 Viewers)

[clementinez]

1st year.

Also please realize uni barely teaches enough for you to be employable. You have to spend a lot of hours learning extra skills and doing projects on your own.

I am aware of this but thanks for the heads up. I'm just looking for the uni that will give me the 'best' foundation.

 

[D94]

I was worried that kicking it to 3rd year would put me behind others doing MATH2069 and 2nd yr units.
It's doable I suppose, a little messy but possible. I want to avoid having semesters with 3 EE courses and 1 Arts because I feel the workload would be too stressful though many students are doing straight engineering (have no idea how they manage tbh)

You're inevitably going to be "behind" compared to a standard 4 year degree. But heaps of students do double degrees with commerce, science, arts etc. Even students doing the standard 4 year degree can decide to extend it to 5 years if they want to. There's no single correct way of completing your degree.

 

[clementinez]

Your inevitably going to be "behind" compared to a standard 4 year degree. But heaps of students do double degrees with commerce, science, arts etc. Even students doing the standard 4 year degree can decide to extend it to 5 years if they want to. There's no single correct way of completing your degree.

I know I'll be behind everyone in the straight engineering degree and that's ok as long as I'm not disadvantaged while taking a particular course. Sometimes it's recommended certain classes be taken at the same time (when I was looking into Science degrees they did this at USYD) though to be fair I haven't come across any such recommendations in the handbook for engineering so maybe it won't matter if I don't take some classes within the same semester as long as they are in correct order.

 

[Danoraptor]

yes! some good news lol

Do you feel confident with your programming skills? I've heard that UNSW emphasizes the practical workplace applications of CS during the degree (which I'm sure USYD does as well but apparently UNSW does it better).

Real programming skills are learnt through personal projects and working.

 

[AusHam]

If you enjoy programming and computers, just do a computer science degree. If your considering pursuing an engineering degree, try and do more
practical activities like camping, girl guides or amateur radio. Being a decent engineer, in my opinion, requires a good degree of practical skills as well as the university qualification.

 

[clementinez]

If you enjoy programming and computers, just do a computer science degree. If your considering pursuing an engineering degree, try and do more
practical activities like camping, girl guides or amateur radio. Being a decent engineer, in my opinion, requires a good degree of practical skills as well as the university qualification.

Amateur radio I somewhat get but camping and girl guides? Really?

I hate camping lol

Having further considered this I understand what you're getting at but I don't believe misguided practical skills increase your ability to handle a specific discipline. Similarly to the concept of specificity in physical training, it's a matter of gaining skills that relate to the sport you play otherwise they will not be applicable.

 

[Danoraptor]

If you enjoy programming and computers, just do a computer science degree. If your considering pursuing an engineering degree, try and do more
practical activities like camping, girl guides or amateur radio. Being a decent engineer, in my opinion, requires a good degree of practical skills as well as the university qualification.

Not many people actually understand this. All the engineers I've met are very practical people, and if they werent going to uni they would have made great tradesmen.

 

[clementinez]

Not many people actually understand this. All the engineers I've met are very practical people, and if they werent going to uni they would have made great tradesmen.

I don't think someone looking for a purely theoretical discipline would choose engineering in the first place.. or I may be wrong. After all the point of engineering is the practical application of maths/physics. Engineering requires a dose of creativity.

 

[anomalousdecay]

I'm guessing that makes for some 'fun' exams. You'd have to be a pretty quick thinker to solve design questions under exam conditions lol

You just have to understand stuff really well.

does this mean I could keep 1 of Digital Circuit Design/Circuits and Signals/Embedded Systems Design/Analogue Electronics for each semester. Is there any advantage to taking maths 2 while taking these courses?

The length of the degree doesn't bother me much. Half a year is not much of a difference.

leave 2142 for whenever in my opinion. It's also excluded from comp2121 so you can choose between either one of them.

2133, 2134 I recommend getting out of the way as soon as possible and try to excel in them. They provide the foundations for many courses and the knowledge from them is very important for most level 3 courses.

I would also recommend doing math2069 earlier than later, since it really helps develop maths skills and only some of the content is applied to future courses (in fact it's built upon in it's own ways).

2141 you can delay, but I don't recommend doing it for too long as some other courses will be dependent on the fundamentals (first few weeks) in that course.

 

[clementinez]

leave 2142 for whenever in my opinion. It's also excluded from comp2121 so you can choose between either one of them.

2133, 2134 I recommend getting out of the way as soon as possible and try to excel in them. They provide the foundations for many courses and the knowledge from them is very important for most level 3 courses.

I would also recommend doing math2069 earlier than later, since it really helps develop maths skills and only some of the content is applied to future courses (in fact it's built upon in it's own ways).

2141 you can delay, but I don't recommend doing it for too long as some other courses will be dependent on the fundamentals (first few weeks) in that course.

Thanks anomalousdecay, this is incredibly helpful and just the information I was looking for!

 

[kanjk]

Why does anyone want to do SE it's beyond me. CS is more flexible. Don't lock yourself into an extra year. You probably need to do more research into the field if you think a software engineering degree is > comp sci degree. It's never the better option, unless you are doing it by itself, and like less freedom in your degree (being told what to do). MOST people at UNSW who do seng always admit they want to transfer to comp sci.


Or how about you just double degree it and come out with a comp sci degree AND electrical eng degree (people might suggest mechatronics eng, but if you're worried about employers not thinking you have the skills because of your degree, do an extra year and get both)?

Check out the handbook which has all the information about degrees, e.g. comp sci / eng:

http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/undergraduate/programs/2016/3772.html

lmao SE and CS are completely different. Firstly SE's are recognised engineers by engineers Australia, and can move on to become Ieng's and Ceng's, where a Cs degree can't get you. I did 2 years of CS before finally moving to SE. CS is much more theory based, teaching 'how things work', where in SE your learning 'How to build/create those things, and the engineering plan to create such things'. If you want to get into high level dev positions you will need an SE degree. Even an EE degree won't get you far. CS is more theory based, SE is practical.

 

[kanjk]

EE seems to offer broader opportunities.



Would someone with a degree in EE and programming knowledge still be able to work in software development or is a degree in SE or CS necessary?

Yes, a person with an EE degree can certainly work in the software industry, provided they spend time and learn the skills necessary. A CS/SE degere would obviously be better as they equip you with more relevant skills (e.g Algorithms, Data Structures etc).
Employees don't really care about your degree, provided you have the knowledge/skills for the position.
!

I really don't think this is true. When i was doing a first year programming subject at UTS (programming fundamentals) i made friends with a 4th year who was almost ready to graduate. In his words, he was doing the subject because it should be 'piss easy'. This guy couldn't write 10 lines of basic java code. He never did anything in class, and when it came to assessments he couldn't even attempt the assignment and barely passed the final exam. An EE is nowhere near an SE in terms of programming as an SE is nowhere an EE when it comes to circuit and electrical analysis. Sure, some EE's do end up working as software dev's but most do that because they can't find an EE job and usually work in lower level dev jobs, until they gain the relevant experience/qualifications. EE and SE are similar, but nowhere the same. Grab any course structure (uts for example) and see the difference yourself.

If you want a balance between both look into COMPUTER SYSTEMS ENGINEERING.

 

[Flop21]

lmao SE and CS are completely different. Firstly SE's are recognised engineers by engineers Australia, and can move on to become Ieng's and Ceng's, where a Cs degree can't get you. I did 2 years of CS before finally moving to SE. CS is much more theory based, teaching 'how things work', where in SE your learning 'How to build/create those things, and the engineering plan to create such things'. If you want to get into high level dev positions you will need an SE degree. Even an EE degree won't get you far. CS is more theory based, SE is practical.

What on earth are you talking about? Don't just BS and say "it's much more theoretical", be specific and explain what you mean by that, i.e. what subjects make it more theoretical?

We're talking about UNSW SE vs CS degrees here if you're confused (at least I was).

 

[anomalousdecay]

I agree with some parts of kanjk's first post but disagree with all of their second post.

 

[clementinez]

What on earth are you talking about? Don't just BS and say "it's much more theoretical", be specific and explain what you mean by that, i.e. what subjects make it more theoretical?

We're talking about UNSW SE vs CS degrees here if you're confused (at least I was).

basically what Flop21 said because UNSW SE and CS is very similar. The difference is CS has more electives and SE has workshops and this might be where the more "practical" learning takes place. Since I plan on doing a combined degree I'd end up losing a lot of CS electives so there's not much difference apart from the compulsory work experience which you can do with CS as well (internships etc) and the workshops.

 

[anomalousdecay]

and also mandatory thesis in reply to above

 

[kanjk]

What on earth are you talking about? Don't just BS and say "it's much more theoretical", be specific and explain what you mean by that, i.e. what subjects make it more theoretical?

We're talking about UNSW SE vs CS degrees here if you're confused (at least I was).

Sorry, i didn't clarify myself.

I can't speak based of UNSW but i did attend UTS for SE and Usyd for comp sci.

In CS, you don't actually learn about the process of creating an effective solution for your customer. You only learn the how. You don't learn how to work in a team, how to identify problems in design criteria and how to manage time. You learn to write code, and learn about computers and that's it.

In SE, you do a variety of subjects which force you to work in a team and complete a set task. (Some at UTS include ICT analysis and ICT design which i am sure UNSW has similar subject) Ignoring all the learning stuff, as i stated above, there are only certain jobs an CS can do. Cs's generally can't work on critical systems, even some Se's only those who hold Ieng's or Ceng's (which is very important if you want to move up in $$).

Basically, what i am trying to say is that SE is a far more practical degree. If you want to work on large complex systems with a team, become an SE, otherwise if you want to become your average coder, working on mid level systems, do a cs degree.

Edit, I'll just let UNSW explain the differences

https://www.engineering.unsw.edu.au...ndergraduate/program-options/computer-science

https://www.engineering.unsw.edu.au...graduate/program-options/software-engineering

 

[kanjk]

I agree with some parts of kanjk's first post but disagree with all of their second post.

are you referring to

I really don't think this is true. When i was doing a first year programming subject at UTS (programming fundamentals) i made friends with a 4th year who was almost ready to graduate. In his words, he was doing the subject because it should be 'piss easy'. This guy couldn't write 10 lines of basic java code. He never did anything in class, and when it came to assessments he couldn't even attempt the assignment and barely passed the final exam. An EE is nowhere near an SE in terms of programming as an SE is nowhere an EE when it comes to circuit and electrical analysis. Sure, some EE's do end up working as software dev's but most do that because they can't find an EE job and usually work in lower level dev jobs, until they gain the relevant experience/qualifications. EE and SE are similar, but nowhere the same. Grab any course structure (uts for example) and see the difference yourself.

If you want a balance between both look into COMPUTER SYSTEMS ENGINEERING.

If so, then i really don't understand why. EE's only do a tiny bit of programming compared to the SE major. I have met/worked with tons of EE's who can barely code, let alone have enough knowledge to be considered as an SE. The story above is true tho. In my mind, depending on what subjects you take, EE's and SE's may cross over, but the disciplines are fundamentally different.

 

[Flop21]

Sorry, i didn't clarify myself.

I can't speak based of UNSW but i did attend UTS for SE and Usyd for comp sci.

In CS, you don't actually learn about the process of creating an effective solution for your customer. You only learn the how. You don't learn how to work in a team, how to identify problems in design criteria and how to manage time. You learn to write code, and learn about computers and that's it.

In SE, you do a variety of subjects which force you to work in a team and complete a set task. (Some at UTS include ICT analysis and ICT design which i am sure UNSW has similar subject) Ignoring all the learning stuff, as i stated above, there are only certain jobs an CS can do. Cs's generally can't work on critical systems, even some Se's only those who hold Ieng's or Ceng's (which is very important if you want to move up in $$).

Basically, what i am trying to say is that SE is a far more practical degree. If you want to work on large complex systems with a team, become an SE, otherwise if you want to become your average coder, working on mid level systems, do a cs degree.

Okay but just keep in mind you're talking about UTS software engineering, and USYD computer science.

Because at UNSW that simply doesn't make sense to me. The seng workshops suddenly make you more qualified to work on large complex systems? Nah. The degrees are too similar to have that much difference.

 

[turntaker]

Lol SE = CE

Case closed