2007 State Election - Labor or the Coalition/Iemma or Debnam? (2 Viewers)

[wheredanton]

Well... it seems our compulsory voting system has failed us once again.

All I have to say is: "It's not my problem I didn't vote for them." - - For the next 4 years this is my response to any issue related to the train wreck that is the NSW Labor government.

The system fails when the electorate doesn't agree with you? But the system is ayokay and the electorate is right when it returns Howard time and time again?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

In what sense did our compulsory voting system fail us?

The wrong people won because people are stupid. It isn't their fault though. We give them a vote and force them to use it, then allow the parties to trick them with campaigns filled with lies. The system is flawed.

The system fails when the electorate doesn't agree with you? But the system is ayokay and the electorate is right when it returns Howard time and time again?

Yes. Also see above.

 

[Sparcod]

I wonder which seat had the most votes for CDP.

 

[Triangulum]

The wrong people won because people are stupid.

To be honest, the thing I really can't stand is when people try to explain away their supported party's defeat by blaming the electorate, and more broadly when people believe that no one could ever have a different opinion to theirs without either being stupid or having malign intent.

The fact that people didn't elect your favoured party is not because they are stupid. It's because they have a different opinion to you. It's absurdly arrogant to say otherwise, and seems to me to often be used as an excuse to avoid the hard questions about why a party was defeated.

 

[Silver Persian]

In the Legislative Council its looking like Labor 9, Coalition 8, Greens 2, Christian Democratic 1, Shooter's Party 1

Were the democrats even close to getting a seat?

 

[Triangulum]

Were the democrats even close to getting a seat?

Their primary was 0.3 of a quota. The election-night results are very unreliable, of course, but they weren't really close at all.

The Greens preferenced them, but I don't see that being enough to get them 0.7 of a quota. So no Democrat action in the LC, by the looks of things.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Liberal margin in Epping 2pp
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/nsw/2007/results/eppi.htm

68.1% - 31.9%

lol, thats against an independant btw, Labor didn't even make it into the final count.

now now, don't get too cocky. don't forget that there's a world outside of the north shore, and by the looks of things its a lot bigger, and led the alp to victory.

 

[frog12986]

now now, don't get too cocky. don't forget that there's a world outside of the north shore, and by the looks of things its a lot bigger, and led the alp to victory.

Nonetheless, Epping and Ryde, both of which had strong swings away from the ALP are in the heart of Bennelong. workchoices must be biting hard there..

O'Farrell for leader for the full four year term for mine..

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

'Tis true, 'tis true. Then again, I wouldn't have expected that workchoices would have made much of a difference in any of the Bennelong state electorates. I figure that at federal, people in those electorates would swing away from Howard on moral issues (Hicks, Iraq etc), which were a non-factor in state.

 

[frog12986]

'Tis true, 'tis true. Then again, I wouldn't have expected that workchoices would have made much of a difference in any of the Bennelong state electorates. I figure that at federal, people in those electorates would swing away from Howard on moral issues (Hicks, Iraq etc), which were a non-factor in state.

That is true, but then preferences will have a greater bearing, particularly in relation to the 'doctors wives' cliche. The federal concers will include Lindsay, MacArthur and Greenway, which they have worked so hard to get.

Don't be surprised is there are amendments to the Workchoices legislation in the lead up to the election. Along the lines of .."there are public concerns, and we're listening'.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

You think that the electorate is mindless then? Misinformation and last minute convincing It didn't really work with the Brian Burke affair, I doubt it would work in trying to cool down their awful workchoices legislation.

 

[frog12986]

You think that the electorate is mindless then? Misinformation and last minute convincing It didn't really work with the Brian Burke affair, I doubt it would work in trying to cool down their awful workchoices legislation.

You really do overestimate the value of distant opinion polls and underestimate the power incumbency..

 

[Sparcod]

Their primary was 0.3 of a quota. The election-night results are very unreliable, of course, but they weren't really close at all.

The Greens preferenced them, but I don't see that being enough to get them 0.7 of a quota. So no Democrat action in the LC, by the looks of things.

I thought that the Democrats were predicted to get one.

When can we get finalised results?

 

[Iron]

Just got back from young labor campaigning in Penrith. We won that seat and state, but we had no right to. Main consolation was that the alternative really was a greater evil.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

To be honest, the thing I really can't stand is when people try to explain away their supported party's defeat by blaming the electorate, and more broadly when people believe that no one could ever have a different opinion to theirs without either being stupid or having malign intent.

The fact that people didn't elect your favoured party is not because they are stupid. It's because they have a different opinion to you. It's absurdly arrogant to say otherwise, and seems to me to often be used as an excuse to avoid the hard questions about why a party was defeated.

All opinions are not equal and it is possible to have a wrong opinion. I could claim that the sky is red and that is just my opinion but I would still be an idiot.

I know for a fact that plenty of people who turned up to vote yesterday probably couldn't reasonably justify why they voted the way they did. Their opinion is not equal to that of someone who knew the policies, made an informed decision and had a reasonable explanation for that decision.

 

[Triangulum]

When can we get finalised results?

For the legislative council? It'll take weeks, probably. They haven't even started with the below-the-line votes, I think.

The federal concers will include Lindsay, MacArthur and Greenway, which they have worked so hard to get.

Greenway has been redistributed pretty much out of Labor's reach. It now includes the Hawkesbury region, which is fairly solidly Liberal. The bigger worry for the Liberals in that area is Macquarie, which the redistribution has notionally made into a Labor seat. As well as Lindsay and MacArthur, as you say. Interesting that in the NSW election Penrith (which is roughly equivalent to Lindsay) saw a reasonably strong swing towards Labor, bucking the statewide trend.

I suspect that other concerns for the Coalition will be coastal electorates like Cowper, Dobell and of course Eden-Monaro. As has been said before, long-term demographic change has been swinging those areas to Labor, and is likely what was behind the fall of Richmond to Labor in 2004.

 

[Triangulum]

All opinions are not equal and it is possible to have a wrong opinion. I could claim that the sky is red and that is just my opinion but I would still be an idiot.

I know for a fact that plenty of people who turned up to vote yesterday probably couldn't reasonably justify why they voted the way they did. Their opinion is not equal to that of someone who knew the policies, made an informed decision and had a reasonable explanation for that decision.

All opinions are not equal, yes. That's quite different to saying "My opinion is right, and everyone who disagrees is stupid". I'm sure that plenty of people voted for the ALP without a strong reason. But I'm also sure that plenty of people voted for the Liberals without a strong reason. And plenty of people voted for both parties with strong reasons. What's your point?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

All opinions are not equal, yes. That's quite different to saying "My opinion is right, and everyone who disagrees is stupid". I'm sure that plenty of people voted for the ALP without a strong reason. But I'm also sure that plenty of people voted for the Liberals without a strong reason. And plenty of people voted for both parties with strong reasons. What's your point?

I wouldn't say that everyone with a different opinion is stupid but in this situation I'd say a fair percentage of them are.

The difference here is that from the start everyone had a strong reason not to vote Labor. You can't argue that their record is anything but horrible.

My point is the system is illogical.

My final comment on the issue: Most of the people that voted for Labor are stupid. Not all... but most. The reason is obvious, if you can't see it I'm not going to bother explaining it.

 

[Josie]

I could say something obvious like my opinion is that anyone who voted Liberal is stupid, but I won't. Cause that's like, a democratic right.

P.S I didn't vote Labor.

 

[poloktim]

The wrong people won because people are stupid. It isn't their fault though. We give them a vote and force them to use it, then allow the parties to trick them with campaigns filled with lies. The system is flawed.

Awww, the system is flawed because the party you wanted to win didn't win? Awww, poor wittle baby.

I think that the people didn't want to vote Liberal/National because they thought they were an inadequate opposition. Not because they are stupid, as you put it.

Honestly, the coalition failed. Democracy has spoken. Instead of bitching about how people are stupid, spend the next four years criticising the government. Try and convince people to vote Liberal yourself, too. Don't just sulk.