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2013 Federal election (2 Viewers)

2013 Federal Election: 2PP Voting Intention

  • Liberal / National Coalition

    Votes: 101 50.0%
  • Australian Labor Party

    Votes: 101 50.0%

  • Total voters
    202

isildurrrr1

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The conflict in Syria is just that, "baddies vs baddies"; foreign radical Islamist terrorists/militants against the Al Assad Government. Professional mercenaries are now pouring into Syria and having a high season. Passports of the dead show that many have come from Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Chechnia, Turkey and even France or the UK.

Those who are trying to implicate the Syrian government as being behind the use of chemical weapons are seriously misguided. It defies common sense to suggest that Syrian soldiers would use chemical weapons against civilians. Rather, it is certainly more plausible that it was most likely an effort of the FSA who, among the other horrendous atrocities they have committed over the last two years (be-headings, pointblank executions, testing of chemical weapons on bunny rabbits etc) , are trying to pull western powers into a war that they are losing.
welcome to iraq invasion 2003, where coalition troops were getting shot at by libyans, syrians etc etc. in fact, its pretty much the same rebels the west is now supporting.

its funny how it gets chemical weapons to be the "red line" in a conflict that has taken the lives over 100k in 2 years. gg world.
 

funkshen

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yeah because all those places had brand new anti-air missile systems right? This isn't some second tier weaponary, this is shit russia would've used to defend east germany against a NATO attack. The system is HIGHLY advanced. Hell Israel is buying F35's only to counter future use of S300 missile system in the middle east.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...es-prevent-hotheads-intervening-conflict.html

They'll pretty much shoot down anything that doesn't have stealth capabilities. You know russia is going out of their way to back syria right?

yeah lets help the rebels even more!
no one is talking about enforcing a no-fly zone. we're talking cruise missile strikes on chemical weapons deposits/manufacturing facilities. obama has specifically stated that the purpose of the strikes will not be to create any "tactical difference" or force a regime change, so it's unlikely any airstrips not used for chemical weapons delivery will be bombed (i.e. russian and iranian supply lines will be safe). the US has 6 guided missile destroyers and a carrier battle group at the ready. there will be thousands of tomahawks ready to fly and there isn't shit Assad can do about it.

its funny how it gets chemical weapons to be the "red line" in a conflict that has taken the lives over 100k in 2 years. gg world.
use of chemical weapons is a gross violation of both international law and an almost universal norm against the use of WMDs. a civil war isn't.
 
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isildurrrr1

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no one is talking about enforcing a no-fly zone. we're talking cruise missile strikes on chemical weapons deposits/manufacturing facilities. obama has specifically stated that the purpose of the strikes will not be to create any "tactical difference" or force a regime change, so it's unlikely any airstrips not used for chemical weapons delivery will be bombed (i.e. russian and iranian supply lines will be safe). the US has 6 guided missile destroyers and a carrier battle group at the ready. there will be thousands of tomahawks ready to fly and there isn't shit Assad can do about it.



use of chemical weapons is a gross violation of both international law and an almost universal norm against the use of WMDs. a civil war isn't.
yeah im pretty sure assad's government is dumb enough to use chem weapons while under intense scope from the international community right? what chemical weapons sights, there's no evidence of them unless youre gonna trust the same dude who gave the intel about WMD's in iraq.
 

Lolsmith

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yeah im pretty sure assad's government is dumb enough to use chem weapons while under intense scope from the international community right? what chemical weapons sights, there's no evidence of them unless youre gonna trust the same dude who gave the intel about WMD's in iraq.
There is no evidence of chemical weapons being used oh boy
 

Kiraken

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didn't david cameron say that evidence stating assad's regime used the weapons wasn't 100% conclusive?

i think isildurrrr is referring more to evidence for who used the weapons rather than the weapons being used at all lol
 

isildurrrr1

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didn't david cameron say that evidence stating assad's regime used the weapons wasn't 100% conclusive?

i think isildurrrr is referring more to evidence for who used the weapons rather than the weapons being used at all lol
It's just such huge speculation on who used it now. Remember the last time the US invaded a country because "omg chemical weapons." didn't turn out too well now did it. I highly doubt all that airpower being allocated right next to syria is just to destroy chemical weapon sites... like the US know exactly where they are. lolsmith i never said there's no evidence of chemical weapons being used, im saying there's no evidence of chemical weapon sites/caches/plants/whatever in syria.
 

funkshen

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It's just such huge speculation on who used it now.
depends who you believe. the results of the UN investigation will be telling, but US sources seem certain it was Assad.

Remember the last time the US invaded a country because "omg chemical weapons." didn't turn out too well now did it.
still not talking about an invasion

I highly doubt all that airpower being allocated right next to syria is just to destroy chemical weapon sites... like the US know exactly where they are.
this is just conjecture. obama's has stated his aim as limited punishment for the use of chemical weapons, not to alter the balance between Assad and the opposition.

lolsmith i never said there's no evidence of chemical weapons being used, im saying there's no evidence of chemical weapon sites/caches/plants/whatever in syria.
now you're just talking out of your ass. we know the location of chemical weapons research, storage and manufacturing facilities Latakia, Al Safirah, Masyaf, Hama, Homs, Al Furqlus, Qattinah, Khan Abu, Quddssaya.
 

Lolsmith

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lolsmith i never said there's no evidence of chemical weapons being used, im saying there's no evidence of chemical weapon sites/caches/plants/whatever in syria.
yeah just when you write "chemical weapons sights" it kind of means something separate to that
 

isildurrrr1

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depends who you believe. the results of the UN investigation will be telling, but US sources seem certain it was Assad.



still not talking about an invasion



this is just conjecture. obama's has stated his aim as limited punishment for the use of chemical weapons, not to alter the balance between Assad and the opposition.



now you're just talking out of your ass. we know the location of chemical weapons research, storage and manufacturing facilities Latakia, Al Safirah, Masyaf, Hama, Homs, Al Furqlus, Qattinah, Khan Abu, Quddssaya.
Yeah only US sources. Only the US has knowledge about this and no outside sources at all, not the Saudis, not the Israelis, Turks, Qataris or anyone else have evidence. Apparently the French have evidence now too. Not going to alter the balance between assad and rebels my ass, air strikes will alter a shitload of things. Yeah and its not like the arab states have been trying to use this opportunity to get rid of Assad right? I stand corrected Syria does have a huge stockpile of chemical weapons. I still highly doubt that the military would use it now instead of using it way earlier when it had a stronger footing to put down the rebellion. You realize the rebels could have access to the material right?
 

Sathius005

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Abbott looks as if he is going to lose the election.
Source: Sathius005
Now Tony Abbott is really behind the game. One of the features of Abbott's poor discipline over the past few years is that he hasn't taken on the challenge of winning the election step by step. He has always taken it for granted. He pretends that he is a realist when he claims that winning the election is tantamount to climbing Mount Everest. The truth is that Tony Abbott claimed in the 2010 federal election that he was "within grasp of a famous victory". The Coaltition was disunited in 2010 with Turnbull constantly undermining Abbott's credibility. Turnbull claimed that Abbott was a climate change denier and was promoting "fiscal recklessness on a grand scale" via his Direct Action Climate change policy.
 

townie

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Yeah sathius, you need to start going through your 5 stages, I have.

Now I'm just sitting back and waiting for the shit to hit the fan when they realize that sometimes it's better the devil you know. I'm especially looking forward to everybody trying to justify all the election promises that will be broken between now and 2016 ( sooner if we get a DD)
 

lee337

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Yeah sathius, you need to start going through your 5 stages, I have.

Now I'm just sitting back and waiting for the shit to hit the fan when they realize that sometimes it's better the devil you know. I'm especially looking forward to everybody trying to justify all the election promises that will be broken between now and 2016 ( sooner if we get a DD)
But the Coalition will still be in for atleast 2terms. :(
 

Tasteless

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dont blame murdoch for people being morons/not givin a fuck

there's no excuse for not knowing about the parties and what they stand for in this internet age


that said i think it's wrong for such blatant bias cock sucking re: sunday tele
 

funkshen

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Yeah only US sources. Only the US has knowledge about this and no outside sources at all, not the Saudis, not the Israelis, Turks, Qataris or anyone else have evidence. Apparently the French have evidence now too. Not going to alter the balance between assad and rebels my ass, air strikes will alter a shitload of things. Yeah and its not like the arab states have been trying to use this opportunity to get rid of Assad right?
the US is being remarkably transparent with the evidence it has that Assad used chemical weapons, and its intentions in regards to limited kinetic strikes in Syria. this briefing addresses quite a few of your concerns. i quote,

"As you’ve heard us say, we are not contemplating an open-ended military intervention, or a military intervention that is meant to impose regime change. We are contemplating something to make clear that the international norm against the use of chemical weapons and the national security interests of the United States that are implicated by the mass casualty use of chemical weapons must prompt accountability for the Assad regime.
if they're actually planning on significantly altering the strategic balance between Assad and the opposition, why public commit to an intervention aimed at punishing Assad for the use of chemical weapons and degrading Syria's chemical weapons capabilities? when the US wants regime change it either does it covertly, or overtly justifies it by propagating a discourse of existential threat or moral imperative (e.g. Iraq), especially through the mainstream media. this is simply not the case in Syria - or they're playing the long game, trying to isolate Assad and draw Hezbollah and Iran into a prolonged conflict, draining their resources, and also to impose a stalemate with an aim to ensuring that the future government is neither Ba'athist nor sunni extremist.

I still highly doubt that the military would use it now instead of using it way earlier when it had a stronger footing to put down the rebellion.
Assad is still human, and knows that the use of chemical weapons is a breach of customary international law, and of the Geneva Protocol that Syria is a party to. the use of chemical weapons is a desperate move by Assad. regime forces had failed to clear out a number of damascus neighbourhoods and had exhausted the utility of their conventional weapon systems. the use of chemical weapons is a form of escalating the scale of brutality, and is a good move, except for the fact that these days (if you're not a superpower) the international community won't let you get away with it.

You realize the rebels could have access to the material right?
the evidence and high-confidence assessment is that the Assad regime secured its chemical weapon stockpiles before the opposition could seize any, but it's certainly a possibility.

edit: you can pick apart the unclassified intelligence assessment here if you want
 
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Sathius005

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Rudd comes out swinging in ALP campaign launch against Abbott. Source: Sathius005
Rudd has testified to the Australian voters that he is a fighter and told the Murdoch press and the nation never underestimate his fighting spirit. He claims he overcame great odds to defeat Australia's second longest serving PM. He will go down fighting till the very end.
 

Sathius005

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The Liberals will destroy the trade union movement. It's no secret that Tony Abbott claims that the trade union movement in Australia are "militant." Tony Abbott will introduce elements of Work Choices and smash the living standards of ordinary workers. Tony Abbott will take a sledge hammer to the pay and conditions of low-middle class workers. Tony Abbott stands for tax cuts and pay rises for the "fat cats" i.e. corporate executives. Tony Abbott has utter contempt for the working class. Australia needs Kevin Rudd to win this election. Rudd is a strong leader and will create a strong future for all Australians not just a few at the top. We want Kevin. We want Kevin. We want Kevin.
 
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