All students may be required to study a second language. (2 Viewers)

[HotShot]

:rofl:.

I share your pain. I did years of boring, dry German and learnt nothing till I actually was lucky enough to be sent there as an exchange student for a month or so. I only learnt the language after I saw how utterly useless I was when removed from my little Canberra monoculture.

But if you went germany (not knowing any german) you are more likely to learn German, than if you rock up to classes. People have different learning methods.. but if you are there in that environment you will learn faster.

 

[HotShot]

You'd find that when you learn a language you seek out opportunities to use it, and it becomes far more useful than you'd think.

Depends.. we were forced to learn language in yr 7-8 - noone gave a shit afterwards.

Its entirely up to the person.. you cant say a person who learnt another language is going to seek an opportunity's to use it.

 

[circusmind]

But if you went germany (not knowing any german) you are more likely to learn German, than if you rock up to classes. People have different learning methods.. but if you are there in that environment you will learn faster.

That's not what I found. I came back thinking how great it would be to actually be able to speak the language, and then I hit the books, studied hard, and made the most of opportunities to practise the language.

That's not to say that everyone learns like that.

Its entirely up to the person.. you cant say a person who learnt another language is going to seek an opportunity's to use it.

That's true to an extent, but the same can be said of anything else learnt at school.

 

[HotShot]

That's not what I found. I came back thinking how great it would be to actually be able to speak the language, and then I hit the books, studied hard, and made the most of opportunities to practise the language.

That's not to say that everyone learns like that.

Well you had a geniune interest in it, for others knowing another language is just boring. Its bit like studying or learning to cook - its life skill why dont they make it compulsory?

Some people go to tafe and learn cookings, others just do it at home. Its matters of personal interest and thats the way it should be. You shouldnt have to force people to learn anything.

 

[Leo 100]

No i agree you shouldnt have to make people do thigs they dont want to, however on the other hand if none of us had been made to go to school from an early age we would be living in a world full of incompetent people, surrounded by ignorance. you learn because you can, including languages, so we can move forward creating a better place. People shouldnt live their whole lives with 'blinkers' experciencing nothing but their own sub cultures, thats not reality... get in the real world were people speak languages other then english.

 

[HotShot]

You must also realise in other countries they are forced learn other languages because they need to for eg, Europe the fact they are so close means it is necessary to learn another language.

Where as in Australia we predominately speak only english - New Zealand speaks english and if we are to have a compulsory second language then it would have to be Indonesian or Malaysian..

 

[kami]

Yes, havent you heard of people who came to Australia without knowing a single word of english - how do you think they adapted. OVer time they learnt the language.

Yes, I've heard of them. I'm part of a family of people who did this en masse so I'm very familiar with the concept. And you know what? They all complain of the extremely hard years in which they couldn't communicate properly and how they were shunned for that. They would not have taken years if they were properly taught english back home.

I was never questioning - understanding another's culture and its relation to language. No doubt, that language and culture are very much linked - but are we talking learning about another culture or language? FOr either you dont require both - but having both helps - just not necessary.

No. There are many concepts that just do not translate into english. You cannot access another culture completely without its language, if only because you'd mangle a heap of things and change the meaning and ideas.

There are also plent of lecturers that have lived in Australia for ages, and have come from overseas who cant speak 'proper' english. You are making huge assumption that asians in Australia are perfectly biliingual in languages. You will be surprised to know - they will be better in one language than the other. They will never attain the same proficiency in both languages. Those that do - end up working in the UN or as a diplomat translator something hardcore. (that is if they choose to).

1.Yeah there are lecturers that can't, your dispute was that none could and there are plenty of examples of people who could speak fluently.
2.I also didn't say all asians - I used them as examples of immigrant families who raise many of their children to be bilingual.
3.Being fluent does not mean you have an exact balance of language skills, that definition exists nowehere. Fluency, i.e 'as good as english' or what have you, means you can keep up with a natural born speaker. No one has implied otherwise except for you.
4. No they don't. I know plenty of bilingual people who don't - I've met well over 100. And there isn't the hint of any of them having job possibilities as a diplomatic attache of some kind. There also aren't that many jobs in diplomacy so it is kind of ludicrous to lump all bilingual people as ending up working in either diplomacy or the UN.

As I said.. my point here is it is possible to learn a language without having to rock up to classes - I never said you can learn a language in a week or anything like that. IT takes practice.

Of course it takes practice, this is why you'd learn something of the language before going so that you're not so useless when you get there. I can also tell you that if you just 'rock up' with no one assisting you in learning the language it will take an incredible length of time before you're able to do a complex job within a foreign language.

.. No you still understand me.. how as babies did we learn to communicate? by observation this is how we learn languages.

Yes, I understand that we can learn by observation. That is how you learn languages in class at uni as well, you listen and participate but you do so in a guided environment, with someone there to correct mistakes and misunderstandings.

You also don't seem to understand what I was saying; as babies we may learn by observation but how dependent are we upon those who speak for us while we do this? Especially since we cannot speak to anyone.

 

[xeuyrawp]

You must also realise in other countries they are forced learn other languages because they need to for eg, Europe the fact they are so close means it is necessary to learn another language.

Where as in Australia we predominately speak only english - New Zealand speaks english and if we are to have a compulsory second language then it would have to be Indonesian or Malaysian..

Just because we're geographically near doesn't mean that we should learn someone's language. This proves my point about how short-sighted many people are: Not only do you not care about the benefits of language generally, but you don't care about the greater cultural significance of Europe, or even the greater financial significance of Japan.

Makes me laugh.

That being said, Indonesian's in the top 10 spoken languages in the world, if my memory serves me, so it would definitely be a good choice. Malay not so much.

 

[Lizakith]

I think forcing students to learn a second language for a bonus in their HSC unfairly disadvantages students who are just inherently bad at language.

 

[wuddie]

I think forcing students to learn a second language for a bonus in their HSC unfairly disadvantages students who are just inherently bad at language.

and if you're inherently bad at english? bad at maths? bad at making friends? blame those on your parents, not the education system.

if i had to do a language for my hsc, i would shot-gun arabic, so we can't 'misinterpret' hilaly, and i'd understand what the doggies' fans are ranting on about at the footy game, i am always in the dark while they have a laugh at my team.

 

[_dhj_]

Just because we're geographically near doesn't mean that we should learn someone's language. This proves my point about how short-sighted many people are: Not only do you not care about the benefits of language generally, but you don't care about the greater cultural significance of Europe, or even the greater financial significance of Japan.

Makes me laugh.

That being said, Indonesian's in the top 10 spoken languages in the world, if my memory serves me, so it would definitely be a good choice. Malay not so much.

Japan is a financial powerhouse and Indonesia has a large population. Okay that's great, but how many native Australians need to be able to actually speak Japanese or Indonesia in order for us to benefit from the financial significance of Japan or the population significance of Indonesia?

This is how it works in real life - an Anglo Australian, interested as she may be in Japanese language and culture, will never attain the same level of proficiency in Japanese as a native Japanese speaker who has migrated to Australia and may even be an Australian citizen. Also, because Asian countries are generally insular, the native Japanese speaker will be the prefered translator or facilitator of trade negotiations or business deals. Economically therefore, it doesn't make sense to compel students to learn a particular second language. Learning European languages is different in the sense that most European languages are closely related in linguistic ancestry - if you know one, it is easy to pick up another. In the case of Asian languages, very few Australians can attain a sufficient level of fluency even if you forced every Australian to learn one. There's no doubt that Asian languages and cultures are fascinating to learn about - but we ought to leave individual students to pursue them of their own interest. There are adequate means for them to do so already - my high school, although it may be an isolated example, offered both Japanese and Indonesian and their respective extension units.

From the perspective of 'economic necessity' however, there's no doubt that it's most efficient to leave knowledge of Japanese and Indonesian to ex-pat Japanese and Indonesians living in Australia. That is the most efficient way to attain proficiency in a second language - to spend half of your life in one country and the other half in another.

 

[circusmind]

I think forcing students to learn a second language for a bonus in their HSC unfairly disadvantages students who are just inherently bad at language.

The HSC presently unfairly disadvantages people who are just inherently stupid. So what?

 

[xeuyrawp]

Japan is a financial powerhouse and Indonesia has a large population. Okay that's great, but how many native Australians need to be able to actually speak Japanese or Indonesia in order for us to benefit from the financial significance of Japan or the population significance of Indonesia?

Not many, hence my point that the benefits of understanding language go far beyond communicating with someone in that language... *bangs head*

 

[Fish Sauce]

I agree. While languages are useful or interesting, I don't think they should be compulsory. I plan on doing one if I get the chance, but I don't see why anyone should be forced to do it if they don't want to.

 

[*Minka*]

While it would be nice to see more people studying languages, it is not everybodys thing and people shoudn't be forced to take it. The bonus would would really just advantage people like me who could use it to study Croatian/Serbian and get a very easy 10% for a language I spoke fluently before I even knew what a kangaroo was.

 

[ryanbethany]

heya..
well i do 2 langauge polish and german at skool!!
i would be soo happii if i got a 10% bonus!!
...xxx
... i dont think it should be compulsary... ppl chose wot they want.. n sum ppl r obviouslii bad at learning langauges..

 

[iamsickofyear12]

heya..
well i do 2 langauge polish and german at skool!!
i would be soo happii if i got a 10% bonus!!
...xxx
... i dont think it should be compulsary... ppl chose wot they want.. n sum ppl r obviouslii bad at learning langauges..

Starting with you are your English.

Why would you substitute 'happy' with 'happii' and obviously with 'obviouslii'...? I would get it if there were less letters but you are putting extra ones in.

 

[Serius]

lets not forget "Langauge" [it wasn't a typo, she spelled it that way twice] and "skool" and "compulsary"

This person just single handedly destroyed the argument that learning another language makes you better understand the rules of your own. How about we introduce a new subject and make it compulsory, call it introduction to english grammar or something, that way it wont get confused with traditional english which is about how to communicate on paper, write essays, think logically etc.

 

[koube0530]

If people started learning the second language when they were kids it shouldn't be that hard.

 

[mr EaZy]

i think there's good merit in this

but not all students are capable of doing it and instead of having safegaurds to protect these students, we need an opt in approach- that is to encourage students to get into these programmes

the other difficulty is that students will just opt for the languages they grew up with.... but thats not that bad

im studying a language... and i dont want to stop learning languages