ALP Education Policy [regarding funding to independant and non-independant schools] (1 Viewer)

[ellymelly]

It's only half an arse...

Is it possibly a description of your character or your opinions on education?

 

[Ziff]

Is it possibly a description of your character or your opinions on education?

I dunno, most things I do are half-arsed. That or rushed. But associating my arse with rushed isn't really good, I don't like men in that way.

 

[ellymelly]

I dunno, most things I do are half-arsed. That or rushed. But associating my arse with rushed isn't really good, I don't like men in that way.

You've offended my poor, sheltered, private school feelings...

(no pun intended.)

 

[Malevolence]

Where is this going?

Of Course! Ziffs' arse and spelling have ever so much to do with the ALP Education Policy [regarding funding to independant and non-independant schools]
Can we please get back on topic?!?! Oh and for the record, im not a howard supporter , i just belive that he is more competent than latham at the moment.

And where Oh where will this money come from?

 

[ellymelly]

There are three types of education; Public, Private and home school. (we'll ignore the last for this topic) oh yeah, Kwayera just said Uni, that too, but that's not what's being debated here.

so: Private and Public.

At the moment both receive funding from both the State and Federal Governments. The State pays the bulk of the Public budget while the Federal distributes based on a needs basis. In this case Public schools get a greater percentage of funding per student then a private school.

The Labor policy is to dramatically cut funding from the Independent sector and give it to the public sector.

This is good or bad depending upon your persuasion.

There, we're back on topic.

 

[Ziff]

There are three types of education; Public, Private and home school. (we'll ignore the last for this topic) oh yeah, Kwayera just said Uni, that too, but that's not what's being debated here.

so: Private and Public.

At the moment both receive funding from both the State and Federal Governments. The State pays the bulk of the Public budget while the Federal distributes based on a needs basis. In this case Public schools get a greater percentage of funding per student then a private school.

The Labor policy is to dramatically cut funding from the Independent sector and give it to the public sector.

This is good or bad depending upon your persuasion.

There, we're back on topic.

Not exactly. Labor policy is to cut funding from the prestigous private schools and redistribute it to BOTH private and public schools that are less fortunate.

It's not a private v. public debate, it's a prestige v. unprestigous debate. Should prestigous schools get extra funding when they are already prestigous or should their government funding be slashed as 1. they are always prestigous 2. they are already at a very high standard and 3. they can self-sustain themselves anyway.

The money is then send off to the poorer schools. The Catholic Systemics love it...

Haha I just realised it's Anglican schools who are getting shafted, the Irish Catholic ALP v. the British Protestant Liberal party

 

[Malevolence]

There are three types of education; Public, Private and home school. (we'll ignore the last for this topic) oh yeah, Kwayera just said Uni, that too, but that's not what's being debated here.

so: Private and Public.

At the moment both receive funding from both the State and Federal Governments. The State pays the bulk of the Public budget while the Federal distributes based on a needs basis. In this case Public schools get a greater percentage of funding per student then a private school.

The Labor policy is to dramatically cut funding from the Independent sector and give it to the public sector.

This is good or bad depending upon your persuasion.

There, we're back on topic.

And what of Systemic schooling? Non-Private catholic schools? they are really geting the steep end of this bargin...

 

[lissa2085]

Ah, ellymelly it's good to see a young woman with an educated, sensible opinion such as yourself. To cherryblossom, for gods sake stop whinging about no textbooks - at private schools we arent supplied with textbooks either - we have to buy them ourselves and they are damn expensive so cut the crap on that one.

 

[lissa2085]

Oh, and with the whole "prestigious schools" thing, and for those who think their funding should be cut - i could understand this if they werent producing the results, but they are. These "prestigious schools" have some of the best results in the state and they aren't selective.

 

[lissa2085]

Yes Asquithian! oh my god - for once i agree with you. I'm glad you've come to terms with the fact that disagreeing with the sensible and intelligent in our sociey does render you unfortunately, an ignorant whinger.

But on the subject of Knox and Barker - they aren't the best examples, since their academic results are nothing to rival grammar's or PLC's.

Grammar is only really selective in senior school - for the boys who start in prep it is pretty easy to get in.

And what makes you think i go to Abbotsleigh?? i never made such a claim. And i dont think they are selective, i don't think they have an entrance exam

 

[lissa2085]

yeah exactly - PLC is a prestigious school and have the results to show for it. AND they are definitely not selective - not at all.

 

[paper cup]

I would first like to agree with you 100%

o.k. now I would like to have a little 'waa waa' myself because i think it is about time.

As you are all FULLY aware, I go to Abbotsleigh which is a PRIVATE school. (shock horror). To set the record straight:

My family is paying off a mortgage left over from when we lost our house during the last Labor government due to their huge interest rates and company tax as well as two cars from that same period. ( all three of which we no longer own but are still paying for.)
We are also paying off and running a farm, any of you who live on a farm know just how much this costs.
We are paying off three rents and two cars.
All the while running a small family business.
Through all of this, my parents have struggled to spend almost all of their remaining money on my education. So far it's a miracle we have survived at all considering the damage done to us during the last Labor government. there would have been a good 12 years when we would have had considerably less money then most people who go to public schools yet still my parents persevered in the name of my education. ( All objections to it that you may have aside - they and i believe it is worth it.)

now before you say i'm a rich snob with too much money, we don't actually have much at all. don't forget most of the things listed above we don't own anymore and the list of three rental houses is such because one: is a house for my dad who has to live and work in Melbourne in order to make a living.
the second is the office rental
and the third is a small appartment for me down in Sydney so that i can attend the private school without boarding, (which is more expensive) _Remembering that i live on a farm.

so please, have a little consideration and respect for parents like mine who slog it out for their children.

~ and as a side not, when my brother was born, (ages before me) my mum was a single parent with no support from the father working two shifts in order to send him to a private school. in no way can you say that she was wealthy or had money to burn. she worked damn hard and had nothing of her own to show for it, just the best chance in life for her son.

well is it worth it? why not just go to a public school and save a lot of hassle?
ellymelly do you live alone? I sympathise with your situation, but let me remind you that there are many worse off than you. I knew a girl who lived on a farm, she also had to live away from home to attend (public) school. We have a mortgage. Almost everyone has a mortgage. You're not alone in that regard.
lissa, at least you can afford the books. I'm not trying to be offensive. you have no right to hurl personal insults at me. thing is, if you attend private school, you are probably better off financially than your public school counterparts. The gap between private school/public school ed financially isn't all that big where we are...I think it's only 4000 a year...but in syd...
personally I think it's not the school that determines your grades but yourself. you can do well anywhere, as long as you put the effort in. what did you get in the SC as a matter of curiosity?
I'll have to agree with ziff, you liberal people just start insulting people whenever you can't think of an appropriate argument.

 

[lissa2085]

Well you're wrong - look on their website if you don't believe me. There are no entrance exams and 50% or more of the grade gets a UAI over 90 and often 30 people a year get above 99. Four people topped the state last year in various courses and 27 girls were on the Premier's honour awards list - I'd say that's pretty impressive for a non-selective school (especially when 50% of the grade is getting above 90 and the candidature is so massive)

Oh and Cherryblossom, "cut the crap" isn't an insult its a request, and yes i'm positive it is all worth it. And you're wrong about the parents of children attending private school being better off than those of a child at a public school - what kind of twisted logic is that??? Two people with the same type of job and the same income right? One person is losing $14000 + of that income each year - who has more money in the end? The private school parent or the public school parent? Do you actually think that all the parents at private schools are doctors, lawyers, billionaires etc.? This is exactly the naivety i'm talking about - don't preach about something you a) don't understand and b) dont want to understand.

And in the SC (as if it matters and as if its hard) i got band 6s like most of the rest of my peers so trying to use my results to make your point isnt exactly going to work.

"us liberal people" have had the appropriate argument all along - its blindness and naivety that we are insulting no left-wing politics.

 

[lissa2085]

Ah Asquithian! Well done! It would seem you have pre-empted me - is that meant to be proof that they are selective? It seems to me like its more proof that you're wrong - "girls who have confirmed positions will sit a placement test" sounds to me like they test academic ability AFTER they've accepted you. What do you suppose they do after this if they are oh so selective? Kick you out if your results are crap?

 

[Ribbon]

lissa - before I start I just want to make it clear I am not having a go at you or your parents, but personally, if I was in the financial situation your parents were in (which sounds pretty dire) I wouldn't have a second car and I don't know how much rent they pay, but if I was struggling I would downgrade my house, office space ect. I wouldn't send my kids to private school if I couldn't afford it, and I certainly wouldn't send them to a private school I couldn't afford and then complain that if it was subsidised more, I would be better able to afford it.

It brings me back to the point I made before, to me, sending your kids to private school then proffessing to be 'struggling' is like buying a huge house in an expensive suburb, then struggling to pay off the mortgage. You can be just as happy (actually probably more happy because no financial stress + more disposable income), successful and productive in a smaller house (read: public school). Out of the people who I went to primary school with, the best performers UAI wise were the ones that stayed at our public high school. The only reason why I think a private school would result in a higher UAI is because more disipline and pressure to perform on the students there. Resources do come into it, but thats exactly why private schools don't need the funding like public schools do - because public schools have alot of catching up to do resources wise.

 

[iambored]

Ah Asquithian! Well done! It would seem you have pre-empted me - is that meant to be proof that they are selective? It seems to me like its more proof that you're wrong - "girls who have confirmed positions will sit a placement test" sounds to me like they test academic ability AFTER they've accepted you. What do you suppose they do after this if they are oh so selective? Kick you out if your results are crap?

didn't he say it was non selective? isn't that what the link was proving?

 

[leetom]

Oh and Cherryblossom, "cut the crap" isn't an insult its a request, and yes i'm positive it is all worth it. And you're wrong about the parents of children attending private school being better off than those of a child at a public school - what kind of twisted logic is that??? Two people with the same type of job and the same income right? One person is losing $14000 + of that income each year - who has more money in the end? The private school parent or the public school parent? Do you actually think that all the parents at private schools are doctors, lawyers, billionaires etc.? This is exactly the naivety i'm talking about - don't preach about something you a) don't understand and b) dont want to understand.

Your parents are weak. They have succumbed to the Liberal party's belief that wealthy people are better people, and providing a private education for your children is a sign of wealth. Tell them to stop striving for a place in 'higher' society.

Our parents could work themselves to the hilt to give us all private education as well, but they'd rather vote Labor in an attempt to put the public system back on it's feet.

The way you let your parents work themselves to the bone in order just to make sure you get a good education which in the vain hope of giving you a better chance at a successful career makes me vomit. How can you support a system where the quality of your life at home is sacrificed just to give you a private education? How can you come home to bread and butter all for just a better education than the rest of us? Think of your parents, if they work as hard as you say, how do you sleep knowing they are sacrificing their lives just for you? Such is the depression brought upon the workers of our society by a Liberal government, and you drones are only going to try and re-elect it.

Tell your parents to rally behind the Labor flag, fight for decent standard of education for all students, where we all receive the same level of education, rather than let our parents wealth determine which ones of us get the best education available.

 

[paper cup]

Well you're wrong - look on their website if you don't believe me. There are no entrance exams and 50% or more of the grade gets a UAI over 90 and often 30 people a year get above 99. Four people topped the state last year in various courses and 27 girls were on the Premier's honour awards list - I'd say that's pretty impressive for a non-selective school (especially when 50% of the grade is getting above 90 and the candidature is so massive)

Oh and Cherryblossom, "cut the crap" isn't an insult its a request, and yes i'm positive it is all worth it. And you're wrong about the parents of children attending private school being better off than those of a child at a public school - what kind of twisted logic is that??? Two people with the same type of job and the same income right? One person is losing $14000 + of that income each year - who has more money in the end? The private school parent or the public school parent? Do you actually think that all the parents at private schools are doctors, lawyers, billionaires etc.? This is exactly the naivety i'm talking about - don't preach about something you a) don't understand and b) dont want to understand.

And in the SC (as if it matters and as if its hard) i got band 6s like most of the rest of my peers so trying to use my results to make your point isnt exactly going to work.

"us liberal people" have had the appropriate argument all along - its blindness and naivety that we are insulting no left-wing politics.

oh don't look now but, the kettle calling the pot black. I'm naive. Uh huh.
why is that twisted logic? I couldn't afford to go to abbotsleigh. none of my classmates could.
Yes and so did I. Me, product of a non selective government high school. we both got straight band 6s. The reason I asked you is because obviously we can't compare cross school assessment systems, and the SC is standardised, which would offer a much fairer comparison. No it wasn't very hard, but some people did find it hard because WE DON'T GET ENOUGH FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE US WITH THE SAME QUALITY EDUCATION AS SCHOOLS IN THE URBAN CENTRES. So....what exactly distinguishes you lot from us anyway? you wear a tie and blazers, you dole out 14000 a year, whoopee.

 

[Malevolence]

oh don't look now but, the kettle calling the pot black. I'm naive. Uh huh.
why is that twisted logic? I couldn't afford to go to abbotsleigh. none of my classmates could.
Yes and so did I. Me, product of a non selective government high school. we both got straight band 6s. The reason I asked you is because obviously we can't compare cross school assessment systems, and the SC is standardised, which would offer a much fairer comparison. No it wasn't very hard, but some people did find it hard because WE DON'T GET ENOUGH FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE US WITH THE SAME QUALITY EDUCATION AS SCHOOLS IN THE URBAN CENTRES. So....what exactly distinguishes you lot from us anyway? you wear a tie and blazers, you dole out 14000 a year, whoopee.

Intresting..... you say 'some people did find it hard because WE DON'T GET ENOUGH FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE US WITH THE SAME QUALITY EDUCATION AS SCHOOLS IN THE URBAN CENTRES' but the point you were arguing before is that private schooling is pointles and going to a public or private school makes no difference... im a little confused could you please tell me, do you think private schools give a better education or not?

 

[lissa2085]

Well - YOU (ribbon) wouldn't struggle to send your kids to a private school because you are simply selfish and have your priorities wrong. A "huge house" is somewhat different to an opportunity and an education for your child. That comment just emphasises how moronic your argument is.

Oh and cherryblossom, weren't you just saying that public school kids go just as well as private school kids? erm, do i detect a HUGE CONTRADICTION???

I can't even really be bothered with "leetom"'s comment

And for the last time i'm not really speaking about my parents - not at all - they manage and still have to make sacrifices, but i never said it was dire. I'm referring to my friends' parents and thousands of other parents out there who are not weak (leetom you leave a foul taste in my mouth) nor is my 'quality of life at home' diminished. We just don't need a fleet of jaguars.

My parents by no means work themselves to the bone you fool, i never claimed they did - i'm referring to others. It was THEIR choice to send me to a private school when they could've just accepted a place at James Ruse and paid nothing, but they thought elsewhere offered more opportunities in other areas. Just so you know, i sleep soundly at night because i respect my parents and im very grateful to them for whatever sacrifices they've made - and we both think its worth it.