Article: Muslim inventions (1 Viewer)

[EmperorHirohito]

What a lame inventions, you should be ashamed for creating this thread. I mean is there anything to proud about inventing quilt or soap?

 

[MaNiElla]

What a lame inventions, you should be ashamed for creating this thread. I mean is there anything to proud about inventing quilt or soap?

Well if soap wasnt invented, u'l be one filthy, stinky little thing.

 

[MaNiElla]

interesting article though, i love reading about history. I was just a little irritated at the 'muslim' slant on it. Cant we just make it a list of interesting inventions and how they came to pass? My original post highlighted the fact that if we are going to make lists based on cultures and religions then muslims are going to come out looking like apes.

well, if you come to think about it......... we wont have most of the stuff we have now, if these muslim scientists didnt invent the basics for us. In some way they are responsible for the creation of lots of stuff, that we use these days, and you cant deny that fact.

Plus this is a hobbies forum, and what if the person likes to read about people of his kind?? whats it to you? he's got the whole right to post this, its non-of-your-business !!

 

[BritneySpears]

Well if soap wasnt invented, u'l be one filthy, stinky little thing.

Are you implying that people are dirty and stank before muslims invented soap? All Roman settlements throughout Europe, North Africa and the Middle East always include a Roman Bath, unlike Islamic once a year ritual bath in arabian desert. The English city of Bath was founded 500years before Islam was founded and named after Roman Bath which I visited last year. Aromas and perfume were widely used even during the times of Jesus and regularly mentioned in the Bible. You can keep your insiginificant invention of Soap and Quilt and I can use Shower Gel, Bubble Bath and cozy blanket made in China.

 

[Serius]

soap was only a mild improvement on the cleansing oils used by the romans anyways, in alot of ways oils are actually superior. Also its not like if that dude hadnt invented it no1 would have ,just like if ford hadnt invented the car some other bloke would have a few years later.

well, if you come to think about it......... we wont have most of the stuff we have now, if these muslim scientists didnt invent the basics for us. In some way they are responsible for the creation of lots of stuff, that we use these days, and you cant deny that fact.

Plus this is a hobbies forum, and what if the person likes to read about people of his kind?? whats it to you? he's got the whole right to post this, its non-of-your-business !!

What ive come to realise is that the groundwork for science gets done, if muslims hadnt have invented that stuff someone else would have not long after. the real people responsable for the creation of alot of the stuff we use today and you cant deny that fact. Your logic is flawed because it would be like me crediting everything we use today to the caveman who invented the wheel, or saying that Ford should be accredited with inventing the BMW.

"reading about people of his own kind" thats my problem. Why do we need to segregate and trump up muslim inventions? I dont split things into a 'people of my own kind' viewpoint, and if i did it exactly like he did, we would come out looking like kings.

Lets put it a different way, if the west hadnt shared technology with the middle east, arabs would be riding into battle on camels, with swords for weopons and their ever so great quilted armour against our tanks. If we need to split things up into groups, muslims have contributed jack shit towards todays technoledgy, all they have done is fed off the accomplishments of westerners.

I dont even think i could make a similiar thread to this except with western inventions, it would be far to vast.

 

[mr EaZy]

He's trying to reconcile his religious beliefs with science by showing that the religious (in particularly muslims) can still be scientific. He's also probably trying to tell us this same thing while showing off muslim achievements a little.

yeah well there were a few reasons why i posted it

1) as a response to the kind of rhetoric i was seeing on the NCAP forums and seeing muslims responding to those comments with research i thought it would be easier to reply in this way

2) i didnt realise people had the views that were espoused at NCAP

3) to defend the idea that you can be religious/spiritual and not be in denial of the realities around you

4) to encourage people to take a more globalist approach to understanding world history and culture, rather than the europeanised version. the world is pretty interconnected and you cant pick and choose what parts of history to acknowledge and others to ignore

5) i chose the hobbies section because i know here it will stay for a while longer than at any other section- forward thinking aye?

You're right, but I have to wonder why someone would consider people all of one religion to somehow be inadequate? The best answer I can think of is that it's merely be a continuation of the reinforcement of belief in european (white, christian, male) superiority over the rest of the world. I didn't say you were a racist or that your comments were in particular, but it definately smells like it and I'd say for good reason.

i think its an improvement on european thoughts 1000 years ago; my research on medieval colonial history has shown that europeans thought any non europeans/non christians as essentially infidellic and sub human- i read a charter where James I was saying "[it] is not inhuman nor uncharitable to kill them and reduce their misery and desolation" referring to the natives in North America

but the response i got on this thread was pretty predictable; some are curious, some are open minded, and some try to deny reality and prevent others from becoming to know of it - which was one of the reasons why i posted this thread.

Fact is there have been genius muslims.
Fact is there still are.
Fact is there have been many genius hindu's.
Fact is there still are.

i'd say not as many as 'western' ppl these days, although i would say that that has to do more with politics, economics and social issues rather than genes and religion as has been suggested in the NCAP

one guy- ali al tamimi was one of the leading researchers of the genome project (one of the few who had both computing and science degrees in the 90s) but was taken in on providing spiritual counselling to a group of kids who plotted terror. i read an article on him written by his childhood jewish friend who attacked the case of the jewish prosecutor (being the kind you find in the NCAP)- i listened to his farewell lecture- worth listening to

there are no muslim inventions that are current

to the people above who say that, i'd ask:

1) are u in a position to know the reality of that statement?
2) are u in the industries involved in ground breaking research to know of their contribution -how small or how great ?
3) have u looked into the primary literature of scientific research and concluded the above?

The west is imho the dominant and greatest culture in the world, but this hasn't occured in isolation - We have borrowed, stolen, re-invented the ideas of non-westerners and incorporated them into our lifestyles.

depends on how we define culture and "western culture"; i think western culture shows great potential to rise up to many a challenges it will face in the future

btw wasnt it 'we' the orientals who labelled you guys as the 'west' lol
some 'western' people dont identify with being a typical 'western' but i get the point u were makin

 

[S1M0]

,just like if ford hadnt invented the car some other bloke would have a few years later.

Ford didn't invent the car.

That kind of ruins your whole argument.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

5) i chose the hobbies section because i know here it will stay for a while longer than at any other section- forward thinking aye?

If you're talking about deletion, I wouldn't have deleted this thread in NCAP.

i think its an improvement on european thoughts 1000 years ago; my research on medieval colonial history has shown that europeans thought any non europeans/non christians as essentially infidellic and sub human- i read a charter where James I was saying "[it] is not inhuman nor uncharitable to kill them and reduce their misery and desolation" referring to the natives in North America

Yea this is why I consider it 'racism', perhaps such remarks are directly made towards X religion - But I always like to wonder why. I agree with your assessment that it's probably the same thing sort of thinking as years before...

depends on how we define culture and "western culture"; i think western culture shows great potential to rise up to many a challenges it will face in the future

I think more of underlying social/economic principles.

 

[mr EaZy]

Are you implying that people are dirty and stank before muslims invented soap? All Roman settlements throughout Europe, North Africa and the Middle East always include a Roman Bath, unlike Islamic once a year ritual bath in arabian desert. The English city of Bath was founded 500years before Islam was founded and named after Roman Bath which I visited last year. Aromas and perfume were widely used even during the times of Jesus and regularly mentioned in the Bible. You can keep your insiginificant invention of Soap and Quilt and I can use Shower Gel, Bubble Bath and cozy blanket made in China.

i dont think muslims invented soap, the romans did- soap is a latin word (i think- sapon?). but it was used moreso for cleaning utensils and soap for cleaning bodies was more of a luxury. the town of bath had a bath- but was used by the rich. bathing was never a daily must do in any sense.

unlike Islamic once a year ritual bath in arabian desert

dunno where u got that from. the Australian catholic university found that nearly a 1/3 of people they surveyed in schools thought the same way as you, although in your case, i dont think ill change you...

fact is muslims were bathing regularly at times when some kings, princes and monks in europe bathed yearly - not the other way around

5 Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders' most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV.

but anyways, call a spade a spade, these are inventions, and they happened to be made by muslims in the ancient muslim world and the article was about an exhibition covering that period of time and no later and was not intended to prop up the islamic faith or people whatsoever (the article that is)

does all this mean that muslims are better than non muslims? well no one has even hinted at that, i dont know why people are getting so upbeat about the idea that muslims can produce anything, let alone try to develop nuclear power lol

(well that i can understand, but it fits in rather uncomfortably with all this other rhetoric- if the idea of muslims making soap is soooo controversial, i dont even wanna start thinkin about what the response will be to that other stuff i raised [im against nuclear weapons being in the hands of any power, nuclear power- im indifferent too atm])

 

[mr EaZy]

If you're talking about deletion, I wouldn't have deleted this thread in NCAP.


Yea this is why I consider it 'racism', perhaps such remarks are directly made towards X religion - But I always like to wonder why.

1) i meant the refresh cycle, like in the non school section- a new thread today is on page 5 on day two lol, similar with NCAP, no one posts here- except for things that will spark curiosity for all times to come

2) u always wondered what?
well i dunno, i allways thought it was an assumption always had by some people and is deeply ingrained in some cultures

the oldest piece of french literature (guess what that is?) was a song bagging muslims

but i think it comes down to losing control, we dont want our jobs/goldfields taken over by the chinese (in the 1850s), we dont want 'our way of life' whatever it happens to be, to be hijacked by foreign ideals, and we do what we can to make 'the others' look unattractive- and this can be done through labelling or mocking their achievements (as has been done here)

but i think there should be separation of science and religion- the article i read suggested that thats what ali al tamimi felt, and i havent come across any piece of work that suggests that muslim scientists in their homelands ever used religion to justify science

so from the article- it said how a scientist rationalised the world being round, even though the Quran says its the shape of a particular kind of egg,

in a verse on the earth and universe being one and then separated (now interpreted as the big bang), the muslim theologians in their interpretations would have just accepted it, but put a question mark there until the science would catch up with it

 

[WSSM]

1- "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step" a Westner's saying; how right he was.

2- 50 years ago a western scientist discovered thats oceans neva meet and each ocean has a different salt/water density, perhaps he read the Kuraan the Islamic book ,because the Muslims knew that 1400 years ago...

how have u contributed?

 

[mr EaZy]

1- "A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step" a Westner's saying; how right he was.

2- 50 years ago a western scientist discovered thats oceans neva meet and each ocean has a different salt/water density, perhaps he read the Kuraan the Islamic book ,because the Muslims knew that 1400 years ago...

how have u contributed?

1) i thought that was a confucian saying?

2) i dont think he would have read the quran to figure that out- the proof is out there, you just need to go and find it

 

[YankeeChica]

Many Historians considered strict interpretation of Quran and conservatism of Islam as the cause of stagnation of science and technology under ottoman Empire, thereby causing ottoman Empire to stop scientific advancement while British and other European Empire gained huge advance in scientific knowlege. That was why Ottoman Empire fell because it cannot match the superior engineered war machines of those of Western Europe.

 

[mr EaZy]

i posted this thread to prove a few things to a few different kinds of people

1) that its possible to be religious and be smart (as many of those scientists studied the Qur'an and then went into science- the study of medicine in the islamic world, stemmed from our islamic teachings about medicine (my theory)

2) that islam doesnt say that you need to be religious and leave this world alone- the early muslims proved that that is not how islam is to be practiced. You have to achieve the best of both worlds and be satisfied with what you do have.

yankee
- i dont know where you got your many historians from
but i would cast their downfall to a few things:

a) Muslims in spain were exiled or forced to convert to catholocism, or be subjugated by it.

b) the books in muslim spain were translated and brought into christian europe

- remember the value of books back then!! (you dont get books everywhere!)

c) Bagdad was sacked by mongols- its said that the euphrates went black with the ink of books

d) the ottomans were patrons of the arts and not war machines - as europe was! The ottomans had a separation of state and religion where the islamic scholars could critique the government but did not dictate policies. Some rulers were more conservative than others, but i've never came across a source that referred to the sciences

e) Egypt was crippled by European colonial policy and its weak connection with the ottoman capital such that it kept breaking away from the empire.