Ayaan Hirsi Ali (3 Viewers)

[ibbi00]

Light of Life: The Penalties for Apostasy in Islam

You must firstly understand that in Islam there is no separation between the state and religion. Apostasy is essentially considered treason to the state. And treason just like everywhere else is punishable by death. Seeing as there is no Islamic state, said punishment is currently irrelevant.

.

 

[ibbi00]

Sura 9:74

They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

Point being?

 

[Yo1anda]

[/facepalm]

lets just hope theres never an islamic state ugh

 

[Kwayera]

Okay, so you don't actually plan on addressing the argument. Fine.

Do you consider it right that apostasy is associated with treason in Islam/Islamic countries, and that apostates should be given the death penalty (which is the punishment in only a very few non-Islamic countries)?

 

[runoutofsleep]

if there was an islamic state

and someone renounced islam

it would be ok to punish them severely or even kill them

but there's no islamic state anywhere (???!) so it doesn't matter whether this religious teaching is disgusting or not ok

 

[ibbi00]

Okay, so you don't actually plan on addressing the argument. Fine.

A link will not magically unravel an argument for you.

Do you consider it right that apostasy is associated with treason in Islam/Islamic countries, and that apostates should be given the death penalty (which is the punishment in only a very few non-Islamic countries)?

My opinion is irrelevant.
I don't see you lot bitching about death penalty for treason in the US?

 

[thongetsu]

A link will not magically unravel an argument for you.

It kinda does sometimes.

 

[runoutofsleep]

ibbi00 do you consider yourself a reasonable person?

 

[runoutofsleep]

maybe it's irrelevant

gosh i wish i could understand

 

[speak]

I don't see you lot bitching about death penalty for treason in the US?

Bahaha lol. No one here is saying that the US's punishment for treason is acceptable, but we're focusing on Islam. Note that this is pretty much the exact same thing you said to me in the flotilla thread.

"Nothing to see here guys, look else where. Have you heard about what the Russians are doin? It's outrageous. It's bloody unspeakable"

No thanks. No one's buying it.

Have some consistency.

"It's OK for Muslims to murder because the US does it too!"

No thanks. No one's buying it.

 

[Kwayera]

My opinion is irrelevant.
I don't see you lot bitching about death penalty for treason in the US?

No it isn't, considering you clearly have an opinion on the subject, which is Ayaan Hirsi Ali's apostasy and whether or not the death penalty for that in Islam is right/appropriate.

The USA and its capital punishments have nothing to do with this, as they are not religiously informed (and when was the last time the US executed someone for treason?). I do not agree with capital punishment in any form.

 

[thongetsu]

ibbi0:

 

[arcticdbk]

Suck my dick and fuck a goat you Islam scum.

ooft

So of the Muslims here, who believes that one should be put to death for being an apostate? For depicting Muhammed?

Of course fucking not.

The majority of Muslims are ashamed by the Danish loons who couldn't handle a fucking picture.

and they're not really Muslims.

Unlike Christianity which is like "do what you want as long as youre baptised and will repent", Islam says if you don't agree with any of the laws, or if you question anything Allah has written, you are not a Muslim.

No, sorry Yolanda, that is not the case at all. Muslims do not decide whether others are Muslims and are not in any position to 'judge' a person's faith however that person chooses to practice or implement their faith. To us, it is something between the individual and God.

I have been accused of being an Atheist on a few different occasions (lol) by a couple of batshit idiots who believe that they can point fingers and say 'you're not Muslim, but this person is'


And Sharia laws are always open to reform. Different countries have their own sets of Sharia law therefore it isn't really implemented as one set of law...those in authority add and manipulate etc etc demonstrating that in some cases (particularly in the corrupted Saudia Arabia) religion is a tool of social control and what not.

If they disagree with the death sentence for apostates, they are not Muslims because Allah knows best and they are mere mortals.

Yeah, um, seriously, no.

But finally, there is no point in arguing this because you lot believe God is a sky fairy/moon god etc so I do advise you all not to waste your time with delusional Muslims. Thank you and good bye.

 

[zombie omie jay]

shut up jee

 

[Yo1anda]

No, sorry Yolanda, that is not the case at all. Muslims do not decide whether others are Muslims and are not in any position to 'judge' a person's faith however that person chooses to practice or implement their faith. To us, it is something between the individual and God.

I have been accused of being an Atheist on a few different occasions (lol) by a couple of batshit idiots who believe that they can point fingers and say 'you're not Muslim, but this person is'


And Sharia laws are always open to reform. Different countries have their own sets of Sharia law therefore it isn't really implemented as one set of law...those in authority add and manipulate etc etc demonstrating that in some cases (particularly in the corrupted Saudia Arabia) religion is a tool of social control and what not.



Yeah, um, seriously, no.

But finally, there is no point in arguing this because you lot believe God is a sky fairy/moon god etc so I do advise you all not to waste your time with delusional Muslims. Thank you and good bye.

You cannot be Muslim if you disagree with any of the teachings of the Qur'an or the Hadith.

"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his messenger".

Perhaps you would not allow your husband to have 3 other wives. That's fine- but you cannot say polygamy is wrong.

Do you understand?

 

[Rothbard]

Hahahahahhahaha oh no the death penalty for treason

you idiots australia doesn't have that

treason isn't even a real fucking crime

 

[Chemical Ali]

large text

what about the whole strong hadiths n weak hadiths thing? :O

 

[arcticdbk]

You cannot be Muslim if you disagree with any of the teachings of the Qur'an or the Hadith.

"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his messenger".

Perhaps you would not allow your husband to have 3 other wives. That's fine- but you cannot say polygamy is wrong.

Do you understand?

No, not really. Despite what you say and think, and what others maintain, to me Islam is a personal experience. There is the main essence of Islam and the five fundamental pillars that tie people together but everything inbetween can be disputed and is disputed. Polygamy was adopted by many cultures in the past, and still is today. Fortunately, it is not a part of my culture and way of life, and I object to it. Copeish?

 

[Yo1anda]

No, not really. Despite what you say and think, and what others maintain, to me Islam is a personal experience. There is the main essence of Islam and the five fundamental pillars that tie people together but everything inbetween can be disputed and is disputed. Polygamy was adopted by many cultures in the past, and still is today. Fortunately, it is not a part of my culture and way of life, and I object to it. Copeish?

You object to something the prophet did.

cool beans.

 

[Chemical Ali]

Islams cherry picking their religious tenets can only be a good thing, that's what brought Christianity out of the dark ages (and into the dim ages, lol)

But you can't then turn around and say the fundamentalists are wrong about the religion itself