Budget 2014 (3 Viewers)

[iBibah]

The question's last night about uni fees were ridiculous, surely these people have heard about hecs. ok, they can complain that overall to pay more, but to say things like "You say that there is a substantial amount of money from Medicare put back into research. How do you expect that to be utilised if you are making university unaffordable for people to study such things?" is complete rubbish.

Same as the last girl who said right at the end "but what about the lower income people who can't afford the university".

In a way i think its good such questions were asked though, because so many people think the same thing, that the rich will go to uni while the poor dont.

 

[enigma_1]

Guys I know this is a weird question, but what is the budget outcome for the upcoming financial year? I actually cannot find it explicitly stated. Eg last year's budget was a deficit of $18b, but what about this year's? Thanks

 

[isildurrrr1]

The question's last night about uni fees were ridiculous, surely these people have heard about hecs. ok, they can complain that overall to pay more, but to say things like "You say that there is a substantial amount of money from Medicare put back into research. How do you expect that to be utilised if you are making university unaffordable for people to study such things?" is complete rubbish.

Same as the last girl who said right at the end "but what about the lower income people who can't afford the university".

In a way i think its good such questions were asked though, because so many people think the same thing, that the rich will go to uni while the poor dont.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-_r_t7AZU[/youtube]

This is why the libs are having a needs/financial based commonwealth university scholarship to actually help people from lower income groups to gain access to tertiary education.

 

[BLIT2014]

Guys I know this is a weird question, but what is the budget outcome for the upcoming financial year? I actually cannot find it explicitly stated. Eg last year's budget was a deficit of $18b, but what about this year's? Thanks

I think it was around -28.7bn deficit?

 

[Anna Wintour]

what about this

[youtube]s3bG1LLcUpY[/youtube]

 

[SylviaB]

you were better as an autistic libertarian

 

[Anna Wintour]

i kinda realise some of the deficiencies

like the 80bn was covered by changes to gst revenue

but the part about middle class voting liberal was spot on.

 

[SylviaB]

lmfao

claiming that liberals policies are bad because LOOK AT NIGERIA

god this guy's a faggot

 

[Anna Wintour]

hes talking about the washington consensus.

 

[SylviaB]

yes nigeria is poor because of """neoliberal policices""" and not because its filled with nigerians

 

[SylviaB]

 

[wannaspoon]

Putin is one bad mother fucker...

 

[Graney]

I was thinkin about the higher education changes.

Fees = uncapped, maybe triple, maybe more/less

In 2013 students owe $26.3 billion, $6.2 billion is forecast to never be paid back.

Now the probable tripling of fees means a tripling of HECS debt.

This increase in university fees funded through HECS doesn't earn the government money. They will end up with a shitload more debt, including debt never to be paid back. The university funding changes will actually come at a massive cost to the government, maybe the biggest new expense in the budget? So many billions more in unpaid loans.

The ability for universities to levy unlimited fees, paid for by taxpayer subsidised loans, is basically a massive funneling of money from taxpayers to the universities. I wonder if this has been factored into deficit calculation? Probably not since fee increases are unknown/speculative even to the universities.

Now the government has attempted to address the obvious crippling effect of hecs debt ballooning, by lowering the repayment threshold $3000 pronto (negligible change), and increasing hecs indexation from inflation to treasury bond rates, even with these changes I expect they make near zero on hecs loans. Also lowering commonwealth subsidy, which just makes hecs a bit larger but does benefit revenue.

Tl; dr - Hecs is going to explode, even the component paid back on time/accrueing interest waiting to be paid back makes probably negligible money, and the 'never to be repaid' component will be much higher. So the government is crippling taxpayers to funnel boko cash to fat university profits.

 

[Graney]

The issue is you have a virtual disconnect between the students and the loans. There are few incentives for students to take out smaller loans, or to shop on price/value, rather than perceived service quality.

Why wouldn't you take out unlimited taxpayer backed loans? The reason is future prolonged income reduction, the prospect of paying them off x additional years, but that's a very abstract concept.

I am sure extremely few students will be choosing their university based on price, since the loans are so abstract and distant, and perceived quality (at a higher price) is perceived to be related to future earnings and hence increased capacity to repay loans. Hence universities will compete on perceived quality, there will be virtually zero competition on price, price will go to the moon, to the burden of taxpayer.

This problem of dissasociation between student and loan was resolved in Australia in 2013 and prior by the capping of university course fees. It's resolved in other countries such as USA by the fact student debt is an actual debt, can ruin your life, and hence education providers compete on price, students increadingly scrutinise debt vs return on investment.

A system where universities can levy unlimited fees is cool. A system of capped fees funded by taxpayer funded loans is cool.

A system where unis can levy unlimited funds from taxpayer loans, with students having nearly no incentive to reduce loans incurred, is fucking retarded, and certainly headed for ruin

 

[SylviaB]

lmao

 

[isildurrrr1]

I was thinkin about the higher education changes.

Fees = uncapped, maybe triple, maybe more/less

In 2013 students owe $26.3 billion, $6.2 billion is forecast to never be paid back.

Now the probable tripling of fees means a tripling of HECS debt.

This increase in university fees funded through HECS doesn't earn the government money. They will end up with a shitload more debt, including debt never to be paid back. The university funding changes will actually come at a massive cost to the government, maybe the biggest new expense in the budget? So many billions more in unpaid loans.

The ability for universities to levy unlimited fees, paid for by taxpayer subsidised loans, is basically a massive funneling of money from taxpayers to the universities. I wonder if this has been factored into deficit calculation? Probably not since fee increases are unknown/speculative even to the universities.

Now the government has attempted to address the obvious crippling effect of hecs debt ballooning, by lowering the repayment threshold $3000 pronto (negligible change), and increasing hecs indexation from inflation to treasury bond rates, even with these changes I expect they make near zero on hecs loans. Also lowering commonwealth subsidy, which just makes hecs a bit larger but does benefit revenue.

Tl; dr - Hecs is going to explode, even the component paid back on time/accrueing interest waiting to be paid back makes probably negligible money, and the 'never to be repaid' component will be much higher. So the government is crippling taxpayers to funnel boko cash to fat university profits.

Uni fees still have to be raised for our top uni's though, our degrees are WAAAAAAAAY too cheap compared to what they are in other countries for the same thing.

Also were in a situation where too many people are entering university education for job prospects when it truly isn't the case and there's a huge degree inflation currently. My tax dollars shouldn't be subsidising what is essentially middle class welfare. I know so many people that slack like motherfuckers in uni, put in minimum amount of effort and bitch and moan how hard it is.

 

[isildurrrr1]

lmfao

claiming that liberals policies are bad because LOOK AT NIGERIA

god this guy's a faggot

Yeah not like nigeria is one of the fastest growing economies in Africa, not to mention Russia is hugely on the rise due to market forces... Gee idk lol.

 

[Graney]

Uni fees still have to be raised for our top uni's though, our degrees are WAAAAAAAAY too cheap compared to what they are in other countries for the same thing.

Also were in a situation where too many people are entering university education for job prospects when it truly isn't the case and there's a huge degree inflation currently. My tax dollars shouldn't be subsidising what is essentially middle class welfare. I know so many people that slack like motherfuckers in uni, put in minimum amount of effort and bitch and moan how hard it is.

Sure, all I'm saying is, if uni fees need to be higher, there also needs to be any actual pressure for students to repay loans, and not accrue more than necessary.

As it is there is;
- Unlimited capacity to borrow
- No real requirement to repay, or for the individual to bear any consequence of unlimited borrowing
- massive incentives to borrow more (perceived higher quality/earnings potential).

Bad combination. There needs to be a real incentive for students to avoid debt (probably punitive), as it stands universities will rort the shit out of this.

> there's a huge degree inflation currently.*

Proposed changes won't help this, there won't be significantly fewer people going to uni.

> My tax dollars shouldn't be subsidising what is essentially middle class welfare.

A much larger amount of tax dollars will be funding student loans, uncapped loans will make this worse for you.

 

[isildurrrr1]

I think the loans should only be for the financially disadvantaged students in the first place not for students from a well off background, let's say any salary that's 10% above the state level income per capita (just an example don't hold me to it).

I do agree with the uncapped loan thing, but a cap can be adjusted based on the cost of your degree tbh.

 

[Anna Wintour]

I was thinkin about the higher education changes.

Fees = uncapped, maybe triple, maybe more/less

In 2013 students owe $26.3 billion, $6.2 billion is forecast to never be paid back.

Now the probable tripling of fees means a tripling of HECS debt.

This increase in university fees funded through HECS doesn't earn the government money. They will end up with a shitload more debt, including debt never to be paid back. The university funding changes will actually come at a massive cost to the government, maybe the biggest new expense in the budget? So many billions more in unpaid loans.

The ability for universities to levy unlimited fees, paid for by taxpayer subsidised loans, is basically a massive funneling of money from taxpayers to the universities. I wonder if this has been factored into deficit calculation? Probably not since fee increases are unknown/speculative even to the universities.

Now the government has attempted to address the obvious crippling effect of hecs debt ballooning, by lowering the repayment threshold $3000 pronto (negligible change), and increasing hecs indexation from inflation to treasury bond rates, even with these changes I expect they make near zero on hecs loans. Also lowering commonwealth subsidy, which just makes hecs a bit larger but does benefit revenue.

Tl; dr - Hecs is going to explode, even the component paid back on time/accrueing interest waiting to be paid back makes probably negligible money, and the 'never to be repaid' component will be much higher. So the government is crippling taxpayers to funnel boko cash to fat university profits.

doesnt it seem obvious to you that the next move is obviously to cap the csp contribution meaning that down the track when we reach that point people will have to borrow to make up the difference.

This is why people are so pissed off about medicare etc. Its that this is a chinck in the armour of what was supposed to be a free system. Now its just a slippery slope later down the track we can make for budgetary concerns.

The universities love the new rules because it means they'll get heaps more money for research. Perhaps it will actually lift our institutional standards given now we dont have to result to whoring ourselves out to asian students who didnt get into their highly competitive universities in china singapore and malaysia and who would not get english competence to get into university if they actually had to do the hsc here. It would be good to collectively tell those people to fuck off we dont need you anymore, you can be silent in tutorials complain about indian bashings somewhere else and we can focus on something other than 2 year mba degrees and med sci masters and do somethign of some value.