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Bush's Creationism in schools remarks (1 Viewer)

05er

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My neighbours are home-schooled and they've been taught creationism as apart of the Methodist Home Schooling Package for the past 2 years. As a result, they're fucked.

Therefore, Brendan Nelson must die.
 

walrusbear

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gobaby said:
you wanna enlighten me then ROFL
i think creationism is retarded
but cocksure atheists and people who criticise religion poorly (complete negativity) annoy me

oh
loved your smarmy ROFL btw
 

spell check

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can anyone explain exactly how they propose to teach "intelligent design"

i can't see the lesson being very long. it could hardly be tested in an exam or anything.
 

SashatheMan

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05er said:
My neighbours are home-schooled and they've been taught creationism as apart of the Methodist Home Schooling Package for the past 2 years. As a result, they're fucked.

Therefore, Brendan Nelson must die.
anyone who does home schooling is already "fucked"
 

Generator

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A new thread for intelligent design in Australia may be a good idea, but I'll just make us eof this thread for now.

Crusade to lead kids in anti-evolution discussions

By Sarah Price
November 6, 2005


Supporters of a Bible-based alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution plan to lobby every state high school to have their ideas discussed in science classes.

Campus Crusade for Christ Australia (CCCA), an affiliation of a US-based ministry, plans to send all state secondary schools in the country a copy of an American DVD that outlines the theory of intelligent design.

The theory argues that some living structures are so complex that they must have been created by an "intelligent designer" or God rather than via evolution.

In the DVD, Unlocking The Mystery Of Life, scientists outline the controversial theory and the development of the intelligent design movement.

Federal Education Minister Brendan Nelson has backed the teaching of intelligent design in schools, should parents want it.

But suggestions that the theory should be taught alongside evolution have sparked controversy among teachers.

Last month, a coalition representing 70,000 scientists and science teachers said intelligent design should not be taught in school science classes as it was unscientific.

A spokesman for State Education Minister Carmel Tebbutt said the minister did not believe intelligent design should be part of the science curriculum or that it should be included in the syllabus.

"It is not scientific, it is not evidence-based," he said.

The spokesman said intelligent design was not in any NSW Board of Studies syllabus, was not part of the NSW science curriculum, nor were there any investigations being made to have it included as part of the curriculum.

CCCA national director Bill Hodgson said they wanted to make information on the theory available to schools to get students "thinking about the process of life".

"I personally don't see any difficulty for it to be received in science class," he said.

"If [schools] feel they would use it to stimulate critical thought in terms of the processes of science, they can use it in a science class to promote those sorts of discussions."

A Catholic Education Office spokesman said the theory

was seen as a philosophy, not science, and they would be happy to have it discussed in religious education classes.


Catholicism... Always a surprise.
 

Xayma

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Generator said:
A new thread for intelligent design in Australia may be a good idea, but I'll just make us eof this thread for now.

Crusade to lead kids in anti-evolution discussions

By Sarah Price
November 6, 2005


[/size]

Catholicism... Always a surprise.
There is a thread in biology extracirricular about intelligent design focusing in Australia. Although a new one in NCAP might also help.
 

Generator

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Xayma said:
There is a thread in biology extracirricular about intelligent design focusing in Australia. Although a new one in NCAP might also help.
My BOS doesn't extend beyond the Uni forums and a few non-school forums, this one in particular :eek:. Thanks for the heads-up.
 

Xayma

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Kansas has gone further then any other group thus far. No longer is science limited to natural explanations. Of course now is my time to submit my idea of why the sky is blue (it's very complicated, involving martians and dinosaurs, both mythical creatures).
November 9, 2005
[size=+1]Kansas Board Approves Challenges to Evolution[/size]
By JODI WILGOREN

TOPEKA, Kan., Nov. 8 - The fiercely split Kansas Board of Education voted 6 to 4 on Tuesday to adopt new science standards that are the most far-reaching in the nation in challenging Darwin's theory of evolution in the classroom.

The standards move beyond the broad mandate for critical analysis of evolution that four other states have established in recent years, by recommending that schools teach specific points that doubters of evolution use to undermine its primacy in science education.

Among the most controversial changes was a redefinition of science itself, so that it would not be explicitly limited to natural explanations.

The vote was a watershed victory for the emerging movement of intelligent design, which posits that nature alone cannot explain life's complexity. John G. West of the Discovery Institute, a conservative research organization that promotes intelligent design, said Kansas now had "the best science standards in the nation."

A leading defender of evolution, Eugenie C. Scott of the National Center for Science Education, said she feared that the standards would become a "playbook for creationism."

The vote came six years after Kansas shocked the scientific and political world by stripping its curriculum standards of virtually any mention of evolution, a move reversed in 2001 after voters ousted several conservative members of the education board.

A new conservative majority took hold in 2004 and promptly revived arguments over the teaching of evolution. The ugly and highly personal nature of the debate was on display at the Tuesday meeting, where board members accused one other of dishonesty and disingenuousness.

"This is a sad day, not just for Kansas kids, but for Kansas," Janet Waugh of Kansas City, Kan., one of four dissenting board members, said before the vote. "We're becoming a laughingstock not only of the nation but of the world."

Ms. Waugh and her allies contended that the board's majority was improperly injecting religion into biology classrooms. But supporters of the new standards said they were simply trying to open the curriculum, and students' minds, to alternative viewpoints.

There is little debate among mainstream scientists over evolution's status as the bedrock of biology, but a small group of academics who support intelligent design have fervently pushed new critiques of Darwin's theory in recent years.

Kenneth Willard, a board member from Hutchinson, said, "I'm very pleased to be maybe on the front edge of trying to bring some intellectual honesty and integrity to the science classroom rather than asking students to check their questions at the door because it is a challenge to the sanctity of evolution."

Steve E. Abrams of Arkansas City, the board chairman and chief sponsor of the new standards, said that requiring consideration of evolution's critics "absolutely teaches more about science."

The board approved the standards pending editing to comply with a demand from two national science groups that their copyrighted material be removed from the standards document because of its approach to evolution.

When Sue Gamble, a board member opposed to the standards, questioned the wisdom of voting on an unfinished document, calling it "a pig in a poke," Mr. Abrams dismissed the concern, saying, "It's immaterial because you're not going to vote for it anyway."

Indeed, when it was time to raise hands, the four self-described moderate board members cast nay ballots in unison.

Their protest was echoed by Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, a Democrat, who called the vote "the latest in a series of troubling decisions" by the board.

"If we're going to continue to bring high-tech jobs to Kansas and move our state forward," Ms. Sebelius said in a statement, "we need to strengthen science standards, not weaken them. Stronger public schools ought to be the mission of the Board of Education, and it's time they got down to the real business of strengthening Kansas schools."

Kansas' move comes a week after the conclusion of a trial in which parents sued the school board in Dover, Pa., over the district's inclusion of intelligent design in the ninth-grade biology curriculum. The two debates have led a swell of evolution skirmishes in 20 states this year.

Local school districts in Kansas, as in most states, choose textbooks and set the curriculum, but the standards provide a blueprint by outlining what will be covered on state science tests, given every other year in grades 4, 7 and 10. The new standards emerged as part of a routine review and would take effect in 2007, presuming next year's elections do not shift the balance on the board and result in another reversal.

Though the standards do not specifically require or prohibit discussion of intelligent design, they adopt much of the movement's language, mentioning gaps in the fossil record and a lack of evidence for the "primordial soup" as ideas that students should consider.

The other states that call for critical analysis of evolution - Minnesota, New Mexico, Ohio and Pennsylvania - do so only in broad strokes, in some cases as part of a standard scientific process.

"They've given a green light to any creationist throughout the state to bring these issues into the classroom," said Jack Krebs, a Kansas science teacher and dissenting member of the standards-writing committee. "Science teachers are not prepared for that discussion and don't want it, because they've got plenty of science to teach."

John Calvert, a lawyer who runs the Intelligent Design Network, based in Kansas, praised the board as "taking a very courageous step" that would "make science education interesting to students rather than boring."

In the standing-room-only crowd in the small board room for Tuesday's session were two dozen high school students fulfilling an assignment for government class by attending the public meeting. They shook their heads at the decision.

"We're glad we're seniors," said Hannah Teeter, 17, from Shawnee Mission West, a high school in Overland Park, a suburb of Kansas City. "I feel bad for all the kids that are younger than us that they have to be taught things that aren't science in science class."
Source: New York Times
 

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when are they going to start teaching alternatives to the theory of gravity?

gravity is just so boring, we need more interesting theories in the classroom
 

Generator

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It's the only one of a scientific nature, shuter (as I thought someone such as yourself would know), and there's nothing to be gaind by presenting an alternative point of view within a science class when it isn't a somewhat credible scientific theory.
 

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Shuter said:
I think most of the people in this thread dissing creationalism probably only have limited knowledge of this theory, and are also unaware at some of the flaws in evolution.

I agree with the teahing of both as both do raise some valid points and independant judgement should be observed when deciding which to follow.

Supressing alternative viewpoints would be just as bad as the oppressors of the evolution theory.

Honestly though, have any of you ever posed question to yourself like "are humans the only people with a conscious", "how would the first human with a conscious know that he had a conscious"? None of these are theories are set fact and there is alot of interpretation. If you take into account that only half of all mutations may lie in a dominant gene that would be passed on, holes can start appearing in evolution. It is alot better to teach people perspectives rather then have them, like many in this thread have done, come in and go "oh all that theory is rubbish, evolution is the only one".
Yes but creationism does not actually explain anything. It does not tell us how things are one way and not another. It cannot be tested. It raises more questions than it answers. It is unsupported by science. The questions you pose should be dealt with in a philosophy course, not a science class.

Moreover, the foundation of intelligent design theory itself (even as a philosophical theory) is flawed. It was ripped apart by one of the greatest European philosophers that ever wrote, David Hume, hundreds of years ago.
 

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Shuter said:
I consider creationism as encompassing basically any flaws in the evolution theory, of which there are some. I think it is valid, in a science class, to state flaws and critisms of evolution theory and present an alternative viewpoint explaining these flaws.

For example the fact the humans are in general so identical, why are all the bone structures virtually identical. Surely it is not a "perfect" structure (hence survival of the fittest) because we still have useless reminents such as a tail bone. Why are small changes which provide no advantage, but also no disadvantage, not being passed on in large numbers to our off-spring, creating a wider total variation. I think these concerns do need addressing and should be done so alongside the theory.
I repeat: creation does not explain anything.

Yes evolution may have holes, but creationism is the equivalent of replacing them with "it's magic."
 

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MoonlightSonata said:
I repeat: creation does not explain anything.

Yes evolution may have holes, but creationism is the equivalent of replacing them with "it's magic."
the international symbol for creationism should be someone shrugging with a question mark

creationism is so blatantly fucked as well, i read that some christian douchebag thought it would provoke discussions in science class about how god went about creating the world and the such

so he has no problem with there being a god which humans cannot understand or see and there is no evidence for, but it's fine for kids to have educational discussions about how this mystical being went about doing his divine plan

good one genius
 

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Henry_Kissinger said:
We are talking about people who believe dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark ok

don't expect too much from them.
yeah this adventist guy also was quoted as saying that the earth was about 6000 years old and that dinosaurs and the first humans coexisted

i wish a group of geologists would pin him down and shit on him
 

MoonlightSonata

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There is a huge difference between posing those questions and bringing creationism into the classroom.
 

Rafy

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Shuter's sig said:
- First, Australian Schools Science Competition Year 6
How did that happen?
 

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