China. (3 Viewers)

[paper cup]

Fuck this I have a physics lab where I'm gonna get stabbed by the rest of my group if I fall asleep in it again, night, and have fun with your assignment sugar plump

aaww poor waffy, wanna whack on the head with a baseball bat?
cos I hear they're in fashion these days

 

[Xayma]

Rural Chinese Riot as Police Try to Halt Pollution Protest
By JIM YARDLEY

Published: April 14, 2005

BEIJING, April 13 - Thousands of people rioted Sunday in a village in southeastern China, overturning police cars and driving away officers who had tried to stop elderly villagers from protesting against pollution from nearby factories, witnesses said Wednesday.

By Wednesday afternoon, the witnesses say, crowds convened in the village, Huaxi, in Zhejiang Province to gawk at a stunning tableau of destroyed police cars and shattered windows. Police officers were reported to be barring reporters from the scene, but local people reached by telephone said villagers controlled the riot area.


"The villagers will not give up if there is no concrete action to move the factories away," said a Mr. Lu, a villager who said he had witnessed part of the confrontation. "The crowd is growing. There are at least 50,000 or 60,000 people." He would not give his full name.

Other villagers gave substantially smaller crowd estimates. But they agreed on the broad outlines of a clash that came after villagers say they had tried in vain for two years to curb pollution from chemical plants in a nearby industrial park.

An account in a local state-controlled newspaper blamed local agitators for the brawl and said thousands of people had set upon government workers with rocks and clubs.

There were conflicting reports about injuries, and Mr. Lu said two elderly women among the protesters had been gravely injured after being run over by a police vehicle. The article in The Dongyang Daily said more than 30 government employees had been hospitalized, including 5 with serious injuries. Neither account could be confirmed.

A reporter for an English-language newspaper in Hong Kong, The South China Morning Post, visited the riot scene and described overturned buses and shattered cars, adding that "a police uniform is draped over one car - a trophy." The reporter, whose account was published on Wednesday, was detained by the police after leaving the village and released after her notes were confiscated.

Several thousand people in Beijing and Guangzhou protested against Japan last weekend as well. By contrast, those protests were officially authorized, as young urbanites shouted slogans and tossed bottles at the Japanese Embassy at a time of heightened diplomatic tensions between the countries.

But the riot described in Huaxi is more a symptom of the widening social unrest in the Chinese countryside that has become a serious concern for top leaders. Last year, tens of thousands of protesters in western Sichuan Province clashed with the police over a dam project. Smaller rural protests are commonplace and often violent.

Huaxi is a few hours' drive south of Hangzhou, the provincial capital of coastal Zhejiang. It is a short distance from the Zhuxi Industrial Function Zone, the local industrial park that villagers say is home to 13 chemical factories.

"The air stinks from the factories," said a villager, Wang Yuehe. She said the local river was filled with pollutants that had contaminated local farmland. "We can't grow our crops. The factories had promised to do a good environmental job, but they have done almost nothing."

Ms. Wang said villagers had pooled their money for two years and sent representatives to file complaints at government petition offices in Zhejiang Province and in Beijing. "But there have been no results so far," she said.

On March 24 a group of elderly people, mostly women, set up roadblocks on the road leading to the factories. On April 2 the government temporarily shut down the factories. But by Sunday local officials had dispatched police officers and workers to break up the protest. Villagers said as many as 3,000 officers had arrived in scores of cars and buses.

The fight apparently erupted after officers had already taken down the tent city. Villagers said thousands of people had hurried to the scene after the police attacked some of the protesters. The mob then surrounded workers and officers, said witnesses and the newspaper account.

Some local officials who had retreated to a nearby school were reported to have been attacked when they tried to leave on foot. "I saw over 10 bodies on the ground, both officials and villagers," Mr. Lu said.

Several villagers said local officials owned shares in various local factories. But according to the article in the official newspaper, local officials "paid great attention" to the environmental problems and had paid compensation for past discharges of pollutants into the river.

The article also said that officials decided to break up the protests on Sunday because they were worried that "the coming of cold air and dramatic temperature drops threatened the health of feeble old women."

Parts of where I get information But quite simply if we look through papers, whatever good information about china is drowned out about where it is going wrong.

There is that article the one following:

China Said to Step Up Religious Persecution of Minority in Its West
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/international/asia/12china.html

In some areas however China is progressing (eg India border disputes).

 

[paper cup]

Parts of where I get information But quite simply if we look through papers, whatever good information about china is drowned out about where it is going wrong.

There is that article the one following:

China Said to Step Up Religious Persecution of Minority in Its West
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/international/asia/12china.html

In some areas however China is progressing (eg India border disputes).

bump

and for the inadequacies in society, politics etc -

please remember that the chinese constitution was ratified in 1986...meaning it's been around for less than 20 yrs, obviously some imperfections

 

[firehose]

China refuses to apologize for anti-Japan violence
Machimura fails to mend ties in Beijing visit

See: Man sets himself on fire at Chinese Consulate in Osaka
See: Nakagawa raps China for allowing anti-Japan attacks

Compiled from AP, Kyodo
BEIJING -- China refused Sunday to apologize for three weekends of sometimes violent anti-Japan demonstrations that damaged the Japanese Embassy and a consulate, in protests over Japan's wartime history and campaign for a permanent U.N. Security Council seat.

"The Chinese government has never done anything for which it has to apologize to the Japanese people," Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing told visiting Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura as China allowed new demonstrations in at least six cities.

Li said Japan, instead, was to blame for "a series of things that have hurt the feelings of the Chinese people" over issues such as relations with rival Taiwan and "the subject of history."

Machimura appealed to Li to protect Tokyo's diplomats and citizens as his government denounced violence Saturday in Shanghai, where police allowed 20,000 rioters to break windows and damage restaurants and cars.

"The fact that there has been vandalism, including that against the Japanese Embassy, and violence toward Japanese people for three weeks in a row is a very regrettable situation," Machimura said.

"I wish the Chinese government would sincerely handle this matter under international regulations," Machimura said, apparently referring to treaties that obligate Beijing to protect diplomatic missions.

Nevertheless, the two sides apparently tried to mend ties that have already turned sour.

During the talks, Machimura proposed that the two sides launch a joint study panel on their bilateral history, Japanese officials said, adding that Li replied he "attaches great importance" to the proposal.

In addition, Machimura and Li agreed that the two countries will work to realize a bilateral summit on the sidelines of the Asian-African Summit scheduled to begin Friday in Indonesia, the officials said.

Sunday's talks in Beijing took place as demonstrators accusing Japan of glossing over its wartime past once again staged protests in several cities, including Shenyang in the northeast and Shenzhen in the south.

In Shenyang, an estimated 200 people pelted the Japanese Consulate building, with plastic bottles, eggs and other objects Sunday morning, a consular official said.

But many of the people seen throwing objects were stopped about 30 meters from the building by two columns of armed police and some were forced to leave the area.

The protest reportedly broke up at around 1:30 p.m.

Those throwing objects, including paint according to some reports, were among a group of around 2,000 demonstrators who had begun a march toward the Japanese Consulate General at around 9 a.m.

According to the Japanese Embassy in Beijing, a window in a car parked inside the consulate compound in Shenyang was damaged by stones.

Located in the heart of the industrial northeast, Shenyang is the capital of Liaoning Province and China's sixth-largest city, with about 4 million urban residents.

It was occupied by Japan as part of Manchuria in 1931. Chinese perception that Japan has not atoned for the occupation, which lasted until 1945, has catalyzed a series of recent demonstrations.

Also Sunday, about 10,000 protesters demonstrated in Shenzhen, just north of Hong Kong, according to the Japanese Consulate General in Guangzhou.

Another several hundred people demonstrated outside the 19,900-sq.-meter Jusco chain store at City Plaza, one of two Japanese-owned Jusco locations in Shenzhen, a store manager said.

She said the protesters chanted slogans but did not enter the store, cause damage or disrupt business.

The protests, coming a day after crowds estimated at 20,000 or more vandalized Japanese property in Shanghai, were scheduled to be among a series of demonstrations in various parts of China on Sunday.

Anti-Japan demonstrations were planned for nearly a dozen Chinese cities, according to Internet media.

Recently, protesters, comprised mostly of young men, have called on Japan not to rewrite Sino-Japanese war sections of history textbooks and want China to prevent Japan from joining the U.N. Security Council as a permanent member.

Some demand that Japan give the disputed Senkaku Islands to China and that Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi quit visiting Yasukuni Shrine, which enshrines World War II war criminals along with Japan's war dead from the Pacific War and many wars before that.

Unconfirmed reports Sunday also said anti-Japan demonstrators had begun activities in Xiamen, Fujian Province, and in central China's tourist destination of Xian, but consular officials had no word on any activities there.

Universities, often a prime source for anti-Japan protesters, were closed in Xian, with teachers guarding gates to stop students from leaving.

An anti-Japan demonstration was also planned for Digital Plaza in Chengdu at 9 a.m. Sunday, but Japanese officials were unaware of anything happening.

Chronology of souring relations
Following is a chronology of the deterioration of relations between Japan and China in recent weeks leading up to this weekend:

March -- More than 400,000 people around the world, mostly Chinese, sign online petitions to oppose Japan's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council on grounds Japan has failed to take responsibility for its militaristic past.

April 2 -- Chinese protest in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, against Japan's possible nomination for a permanent Security Council seat. Some protesters smash windows at an outlet of a Japanese-owned supermarket.

April 4 -- Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi urges China to ensure smooth operation of Japanese businesses and the safety of Japanese nationals in China.

April 5 -- The education ministry approves a history textbook criticized as glossing over Japan's wartime atrocities.

April 9 -- Chinese protesters hold anti-Japan rallies in major cities in China. Three Japanese students are beaten at a Shanghai restaurant.

April 10 -- Chinese continue weekend anti-Japan protests.

April 11 -- Koizumi urges China to take responsibility for and to prevent a recurrence of violence against Japanese nationals and diplomatic stations.

April 13 -- Japan announces a plan to grant Japanese firms concessions to conduct test drilling in waters disputed with China.

April 14 -- China warns Japan of "provocation" involving the planned drilling.

April 15 -- Japanese companies and universities come under cyber attacks.

The Japan Times: April 18, 2005
(C) All rights reserved

This newly-surfaced situation doesn't look like improving anytime soon.

 

[evil99]

We, the undersigned, strongly urge you to speak out and vote against any motion or procedure to grant Japan the status as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council . As the aggressor in World War II, Japan committed numerous atrocities in its neighboring countries, and destroyed and looted an astronomical amount of properties. Recent discoveries have revealed its systematic slaughtering of prisoners of war and tens of millions of innocent civilians, from newborn to elderly, during those years. Its government and parliament have never formally acknowledged its wrongdoing, offered official apologies to those who suffered immensely, or provided adequate reparation to compensate its victims, including the hundreds of thousands women forced into sexual slavery, nearly a million died in its biochemical experimentations and battlefield deployments in violation of the Geneva Convention, or the Allied prisoners of war butchered, brutalized and enslaved. Japan thus far shows no remorse of its past misdeeds, refuses to repent, and appears to be untrustworthy. The international community can not and must not designate such state to seat on the Security Council which is chartered to safeguard and maintain regional and world peace and justice.

We, the undersigned, oppose Japan's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council until Japan formally apologizes for the war crimes it has committed during WWII and pays reparations to the victims. Japan must officially apologize to the survivors of some 200,000 girls and women it forced into sexual slavery (the so-called "comfort women"), the 500,000 Chinese civilians it victimized with germ warfare, the thousands that died during vivisections by the Japanese Imperial Army's Unit 731, the millions who were forced to work without pay for Japanese corporations, and to the thousands that suffered or died on the Bataan Death March and in other violations of the Geneva Convention.

 

[paper cup]

China makes some room at the summit
By Peter Hartcher, International Editor in Beijing
April 20, 2005

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In a change of China's position, the Premier, Wen Jiabao, has told the Prime Minister, John Howard, that Beijing will support Australia's membership of the East Asian Summit.

Thirteen East Asian countries - plus India and New Zealand, but not Australia - have been invited to the inaugural meeting of the group in December. It is widely viewed as an important new forum for Asia's political and security affairs.

The meeting is being hosted by the Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN) in the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, with the strong encouragement of China.

China had maintained a studied neutrality on the question of Australia's membership.

After Mr Howard met Mr Wen in the Great Hall of the People on Monday night he told reporters that "it's fair to say that the Premier expressed stronger views about Australia's participation than had previously been expressed by China". He declined to be more specific.

Yesterday he said that "during my discussions with both the Premier and the President, Hu Jintao, positive remarks were made in relation to Australia's willingness to be part of the East Asian Summit".

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AdvertisementHowever, an Australian official present at the talks said Mr Wen had specifically told Mr Howard that China would send a positive signal to ASEAN on Australia's inclusion. A Chinese official confirmed this account.

The US is excluded from the summit and is seeking to be admitted as an observer. A White House official told the Herald last year that Beijing was seeking to turn the group into "a plaything of the Chinese".

While Japan, an invitee to the summit, has publicly called for Australia to be included, Beijing, until now, has not. An Australian official said last week that "the Chinese haven't lifted a finger to help us".

Another, speaking shortly before Mr Howard's meeting with China's leadership, said that "deep down, the Chinese would rather we weren't there".

In an interview published in the Herald on Monday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry's director-general for North America and Oceania, He Yafei, declined to endorse Australian membership.

A meeting of the ASEAN foreign ministers this month decided that the grouping would only allow Australia to join if it signed ASEAN's Treaty of Amity and Co-operation, which Mr Howard had previously rejected. He has since said he is reconsidering.

Yesterday Mr Howard told a Beijing business audience including China's Commerce Minister, Bo Xilai, that "Australia sees herself naturally and properly being part of evolving regional political arrangements and political structures".

As a joint feasibility study into a free trade agreement to be negotiated between the two countries was published yesterday, Mr Howard reiterated that the agreement would be "very complex". But he said that Australia would approach it with "a positive frame of mind and with great energy and commitment".

China's Government has been agitated at the recently negotiated rise in the price of iron ore from countries including Australia of 71.5 per cent. While Mr Howard said the mater was not raised with him, he indirectly addressed these concerns in his meeting with Mr Wen.

"I stressed the fact that commercial decisions were made by companies and not by governments," he said.

 

[paper cup]

Give and take as China inches towards trade talks
By John Garnaut
April 20, 2005

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Australia has recognised China as an "equal trading partner" under anti-dumping laws but will give negotiating concessions to China because it is a developing economy.

A joint feasibility study into a possible free trade agreement between the two countries, released yesterday, found a preferential trade deal would deliver on average an increase of about 0.04 per cent in GDP a year to each country in the decade to 2015.

Added together, it says the present value of the annual benefits amounts to $24.4 billion for Australia and $83 billion for China.

The study also projects that Australian goods exports to China would increase by $4.3 billion, or 14.8 per cent, a year by 2015 while liberalisation of investment between the two nations would add $1.2 billion to GDP.

A separate modelling report provided by economists at Monash University, Nankai University and the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences found that a trade deal would cause 180,000 Chinese farmers and 34,000 miners to lose their jobs.

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AdvertisementThe report also found that 1500 Australian textile workers and 400 workers in the car industry stand to lose their jobs.

But the job losses are projected to be balanced by job gains in other sectors as result of trade liberalisation.

Less optimistic assumptions originally provided by the modellers were not included.

But the feasibility study, released only after painstaking negotiations about wording and presentation, reflects the deep difficulties Australian officials have already faced in pursuing free trade in farm products.

The first negotiation "principle" says the two sides should negotiate as equal trade partners and should do so only after Australia has recognised China as a market economy. The designation will aid China in its worldwide battle against restrictive anti-dumping laws.

But another key negotiation principle requires that negotiators take account of the disparities in economic development between the two countries, particularly in relation to sensitive products and industries.

Specifically, the study says a possible trade deal "could also take into account the impact of further liberalisation on the development of China's dairy production and farmers' incomes".

The sentence is reproduced seven times in the contexts of cotton, dairy, poultry, wool, wheat, sugar and canola.

Liberalisation of China's services sector will also be heavily contested, with the study showing services reform would add $1.6 billion to Australian GDP by 2015 and and account for half of the expected benefits to China, or $7.7 billion.

The negotiations will proceed in a tumultuous Chinese farm policy environment. Conflicting objectives are pursued by the departments of agriculture and commerce and the National Development Reform Commission.

Export restrictions to contain domestic food prices have been contradicted by policies to boost farm incomes including import restrictions, tax cuts and subsidies.

Sources close to the study said the result for farmers was likely to mirror that achieved by last year's agreement with the US, where liberalisation in key sectors was phased in over two decades and subject to "safeguard" clauses to protect American farmers from Australian competition.

 

[paper cup]

Farmers push for an end to Beijing's rural protection
By John Garnaut and Hamish McDonald, Herald Correspondent in Beijing
April 20, 2005

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Australian farmers have urged negotiators to break open Chinese wheat, wool and dairy markets in the face of rising Chinese farm protectionism.

The president of the National Farmers' Federation, Peter Corish, said he was anxious to ensure no sector would be left out of a free trade agreement with China after the disappointment of sugar being dropped from last year's deal with the US.

"We don't want to see the same thing happen in the Chinese negotiation," he said.

Chinese Government trade advisers were yesterday playing up the alleged threat to agricultural livelihood from a trade agreement with Australia that removed all protection for Chinese farmers from Australian competition.

"The livelihoods of 3 million herdsmen will be hurt to some degree if a huge volume of Australian wool enters the Chinese market," said Cheng Guoqiang, a researcher of agriculture and trade for the State Council (cabinet), who worked on the joint free trade agreement feasibility study.

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AdvertisementMr Corish said such concerns were "not valid" because the Chinese market was much larger than Australia's production capacity.

Australia's services businesses, including finance, tourism and professional services firms, also hope to gain considerably from a trade deal.

Jane Drake-Brockman, convenor of the Australian Services Roundtable, said her members were seeking improvements in Chinese intellectual property laws, standards, competition policy and government purchasing laws.

"We're looking for improvements in the administrative transparency and beyond-the-border barriers, which aren't picked up in the study," she said.

Manufacturing unions and industry representatives expressed concern, given the local industry is already struggling to compete against Chinese producers.

The national secretary of the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union, Doug Cameron, said Australia would have to compete against a country in which almost 15,000 people a year died in workplace accidents.

"It will be a disaster for Australian jobs," he said.

Heather Ridout, chief executive of the Australian Industry Group, said negotiating with China was a "formidable task" requiring a balance between opportunity and risk.

She noted that 70 per cent of her members saw China as a threat and that Australia had already made a significant concession before negotiations had begun, by recognising China as a market economy.

 

[paper cup]

Come and study at my school of diplomacy, Howard tells the world
By Peter Hartcher
April 20, 2005

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John Howard has a suggestion for other countries on how to get along better - be more like us.

Specifically, the Prime Minister held up Australia's relationship with China as a model for international relations.

By concentrating not on what divides Australia and China but on what the two countries have in common, the relationship had become "something of an example to other countries", he told reporters yesterday.

It was a sign that Howard feels mightily pleased with his diplomacy in Beijing and a case study in the triumph of pragmatism.

Howard's Government had a sharp learning experience with China. When the US positioned two aircraft carrier battle groups off Taiwan in 1996 to deter China from any thoughts of using force against the island, Australia issued a statement of support.

The Chinese Government, without publicly voicing its displeasure, put relations with Canberra into a deep freeze.

The Howard Government learned an important lesson about Chinese sensitivities, and Howard yesterday recounted how he recovered relations at a meeting with China's then president, Jiang Zemin, that November. "We laid the groundwork, and the groundwork simply meant that we would focus on those things that we could build together for the future; we would understand our differences, we would respect them, we would recognise that we would disagree on a number of strategic political issues and always would - but we would not allow those disagreements to contaminate the relationship."

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AdvertisementAnd this is exactly the approach he has taken with China ever since. For instance, Australia no longer raises human rights complaints with China.

Australia has respected China's sensibilities on other matters. While the US is clamouring for China to float its currency, Howard conspicuously refuses to support Washington. While Tokyo has toughened its stance on Taiwan, Australia is careful to stick to its longstanding one China policy.

Howard even seemed to be hinting to his Chinese hosts that this pragmatic approach was the formula that Beijing and Tokyo might be able to apply to recover their relationship, which is now under strain.

In addressing an audience that included China's Commerce Minister, Bo Xilai, Howard said that "if you want to build an enduring association with a nation you should not allow it to be dominated by differences and dominated by history, although it should be informed and instructed by history".

The Prime Minister is confident that he has learned how to conduct foreign affairs.

And he wants the world to study at the Howard school.

 

[jennylim]

We, the undersigned, strongly urge you to speak out and vote against any motion or procedure to grant Japan the status as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council . As the aggressor in World War II, Japan committed numerous atrocities in its neighboring countries, and destroyed and looted an astronomical amount of properties. Recent discoveries have revealed its systematic slaughtering of prisoners of war and tens of millions of innocent civilians, from newborn to elderly, during those years. Its government and parliament have never formally acknowledged its wrongdoing, offered official apologies to those who suffered immensely, or provided adequate reparation to compensate its victims, including the hundreds of thousands women forced into sexual slavery, nearly a million died in its biochemical experimentations and battlefield deployments in violation of the Geneva Convention, or the Allied prisoners of war butchered, brutalized and enslaved. Japan thus far shows no remorse of its past misdeeds, refuses to repent, and appears to be untrustworthy. The international community can not and must not designate such state to seat on the Security Council which is chartered to safeguard and maintain regional and world peace and justice.

We, the undersigned, oppose Japan's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council until Japan formally apologizes for the war crimes it has committed during WWII and pays reparations to the victims. Japan must officially apologize to the survivors of some 200,000 girls and women it forced into sexual slavery (the so-called "comfort women"), the 500,000 Chinese civilians it victimized with germ warfare, the thousands that died during vivisections by the Japanese Imperial Army's Unit 731, the millions who were forced to work without pay for Japanese corporations, and to the thousands that suffered or died on the Bataan Death March and in other violations of the Geneva Convention.

yes. yes i must say i agree there. honestly, how would the jews (or the world) feel if germany erected some great big cathedral to hitler, goebbels, himmler et al and gerhard schroeder went and honoured them each year. like, wtf? oh yeah and they never said sorry or anything. i mean, for goodness sakes, the rape of nanking was one of the most awful atrocities ever - and hardly anybody knows about it - and hardly any japanese admit that it was an awful act and that they're sorry. textbooks call it an "incident". some people are nanking deniers, the way there are "holocaust deniers". this really really really makes me furious. i can't believe that the world let japan get away with all of this just because the US didn't want japan to fall to the fucking commies.

 

[yulia]

I haven't read anything else anyone says...and I'm just going to say my personal view and how I formed it.

When I think of China and the way everything is, I feel deep sadness. I feel horror, I feel disguist, and I fear for what's to come.
When I think of China, I think of the country my grandparents run away from. I see the spreading communism that forced my own parents to flee here.
I see the death of the Panchen lama because of the Chinese government. I see the first child political prisoner because of the Chinese.

But I think all this really means is I despise the Chinese government. Not the Chinese society as a whole, but the government.

Basically, while I am Chinese, I'm also a Buddhist, and I guess I've been brought up more as a Tibetan Buddhist than anything else. And it saddens me to see the way the Tibetan people have been treated, the incredible pain that has been inflicted on them because of the Chinese (the mother who had to cut off her fingers to feed her children after Tibet was taken over is just one of the things...).
I fear the fact that the Chinese are holding the Panchen lama, an innocent child hostage purely for their hatred of the Dalai Lama and his beliefs. I fear for his safety, we don't even know if he's still alive. And I fear for the future of Buddhism itself, without the Panchen Lama, what happens when the Dalai Lama dies?
I see the struggle the monk I sponsor went through as he fled Tibet through the Himalayas for his own safety.
I see the destruction the Chinese are carrying out on their country, on ancient monuments, with no regard of the history they are destroying.

Maybe I am biased by a lot of things, and I've seen Seven Years in Tibet too many times, but it was a true story...while one side of me sees "yeah cool cheap shopping" when I really think about it...I'm just saddened.

But when my brother confronted one of his less strict teachers in China, she likened it to what we did to our own country, and what we did to the indigenous people of Australia. And while this is true, and there's nothing I can say that can justify anything white people did to the indigenous people, the fact they are still carrying out such ignorance and inflicting torture the way they do in the modern era disguists and saddens me...

I feel like nothing I'm saying is making sense and I can't get out the words to explain what I feel and think, I just think it's all rather fucked up and a lot of the time what I feel is a sense of doom.

 

[jennylim]

how do i see china? well what i see is based on who i am...and my chinese heritage is a key part of that.

mainly, i am very, very proud of China's progress in the world. i think that she's suffered a helluva lot in the past century (i'm talking people here) and probably deserves her spotlight. after the opium wars and the allies carving up bits of China and stealing Hong Kong, it didn't get much better with the Jap invasion and the Rape of Nanjing...then add to all this the horrific dictatorship under that megalomaniac Mao! dear dear. so all this economic strength and political respect is great.

however...

little issues like HUMAN RIGHTS and democracy wouldn't go astray either. seeing as China's mentality is pretty much "state first, individual subordinate", i spose not much will change. corruption is also huge. and valuing people is pretty hard too, when you have such a big population problem.

ohh and i also worry about the next generation of Chinese people. this one-child-policy, while necessary, has really paved the way for the establishment of some of the most incredibly selfish, spoiled and egocentric people ever.

nehu yeah, that's how i feel...very sorry for Chinese people, glad that China is becoming great, but slightly worried about it nonetheless.

 

[paper cup]

how do i see china? well what i see is based on who i am...and my chinese heritage is a key part of that.

mainly, i am very, very proud of China's progress in the world. i think that she's suffered a helluva lot in the past century (i'm talking people here) and probably deserves her spotlight. after the opium wars and the allies carving up bits of China and stealing Hong Kong, it didn't get much better with the Jap invasion and the Rape of Nanjing...then add to all this the horrific dictatorship under that megalomaniac Mao! dear dear. so all this economic strength and political respect is great.

however...

little issues like HUMAN RIGHTS and democracy wouldn't go astray either. seeing as China's mentality is pretty much "state first, individual subordinate", i spose not much will change. corruption is also huge. and valuing people is pretty hard too, when you have such a big population problem.

ohh and i also worry about the next generation of Chinese people. this one-child-policy, while necessary, has really paved the way for the establishment of some of the most incredibly selfish, spoiled and egocentric people ever.

nehu yeah, that's how i feel...very sorry for Chinese people, glad that China is becoming great, but slightly worried about it nonetheless.

a lot of people flout* the policy.

 

[Rafy]

People'srepublic of China? bah!

Economic reforms.....I praise Deng Xiopeng for what he did. Finally china is seeing massive flows of FDI to spend on the people. (however the reforms are technically unconstitutional, as the chinese constitution is riddled with remarks and principles about upholding socialism.

Politcial reform is whats needed. A revolution has to occur. Luckily for the CCP this is very unlikely as the economic benefits flow to the people making them happy. However teh day will come when they demand democracy. The communist party rule is only as good as the support of the army and police who maintain order....and who comprises the ranks of these? The everyday people.

 

[leetom]

a lot of people flaunt the policy.

I'm sick of the Reds. I call for a restoration of the monarchy. Where are Pu Yi's decendants?

Politcial reform is whats needed. A revolution has to occur. Luckily for the CCP this is very unlikely as the economic benefits flow to the people making them happy. However teh day will come when they demand democracy. The communist party rule is only as good as the support of the army and police who maintain order....and who comprises the ranks of these? The everyday people.

China must avoid democracy at all costs. Democracy in China would allow for another madman like Mao to take power again. What China needs is a benevolent Emperor who champions the restoration of Chinese culture and tradition instead of trashing like that filthy Mao.

 

[Phanatical]

Mao was never a "madman". He was a visionary, who brought China from the brink of KMT destruction, to take her rightful place as the world's most powerful nation.

 

[Frigid]

Mao was never a "madman". He was a visionary, who brought China from the brink of KMT destruction, to take her rightful place as the world's most powerful nation.

i shalln't put up long and elaborated argument refuting your claim; perhaps our parents, the products of the 'cultural revolution', can res ipsa loquitur.

i shall go no further than perhaps pointing out to you the wonderful year of 1960.

 

[jennylim]

Mao was never a "madman". He was a visionary, who brought China from the brink of KMT destruction, to take her rightful place as the world's most powerful nation.

there are always several sides to a person, and while the megalomaniac conscience-less evil cruel dictator is probably the clearest and the best-remembered, you certainly have a point. the kuomintang was by no means better than the communist regime - they tortured and murdered people against them just as badly. and mao certainly helped get rid of the Japs and assist China to recover, but the powerful nation stuff only came after he died. deng mainly did it i must say, but even he had his slight lapses (think tiananmen).

 

[Frigid]

and mao certainly helped get rid of the Japs and assist China to recover, but the powerful nation stuff only came after he died.

actually, don't you agree that, but for WWII ending and japanese surrender, the sino-japan war would continue for longer, with or without the CCP in power?

 

[leetom]

actually, don't you agree that, but for WWII ending and japanese surrender, the sino-japan war would continue for longer, with or without the CCP in power?

I got Mao: the unknown story and the author of that book reckons Mao welcomed the Japanese occupation as a chance to overthrow the KMT.

Phanatical: as stubborn a Chinese as you are, I can't see how you can endorse a man who promoted the burning of ancient Chinese literature.