Do You Support the Death Penalty? (2 Viewers)

[_dhj_]

CUM HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC

yes that's right FBI: I know better than you do.

Correct. Higher crime rates are also likely to bolster community and legislative approval of capital punishment.

 

[Darnie]

only in extreme cases

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Neb do you really support the death penalty???

theoretically speaking.

i see no reason why i should value the life of say, a murderer, highly enough to preserve said life.

eg: that bikie guy who murdered that father of three in melbourne. i'd have no problem giving my support for his death.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

murder refers strictly to the illegal killing of someone.
the state becomes a killer, not a murderer.

and if two wrongs don't make a right, should i not deprive a murderer of his liberty by putting him in jail? hmm?

 

[_dhj_]

Whether the taking of a life is wrong depends on the circumstances. If a soldier kills to defend his country for instance that would not be 'murder'.

 

[5233andy]

Morality is subjective.


the value of a life is subjective, anybody who says that they value all life equally is a lying son of a bitch.


abstract concepts are useless in an argument.

Okay... well ask yourself this, do you value the notion of life? (Well human life to be specific?)

 

[5233andy]

No. Fuck guilt. If a person chooses to kill someone, or commit an act which infringes significantly on the health/wellbeing or another individual, then they deserve to be punished. Whether that involves said individual being killed depends on the circumstances.

If I were a judge and I had sentenced someone to death, I'd definitely be able to hold my head high. In fact, I'd be able to hold it higher knowing that I've rid the world of scum.

I understand, but I'd rather see the punishment served out as life imprisonment. This way, the criminal then experiences the feeling of being isolated from society and ultimately experience the grave sense of guilt. In may circumstances, those who are imprisoned endeavour to hang themselves or whatnot. Hence the death penalty is only a first class ticket to exit the pain that he/she's bound to experience with life in gaol.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Touche.
But both are associated with taking someones life. How can you support that? Its like being a hypocrite.

Not really. The circumstances are wildly different. I mean, obviously if I were opposed to taking a life in general then I'd be a hypocrite, but I don't think that. I think that unfairly taking a life (whatever that means, which is a whole different story) is wrong.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

a deterrent (disputed)
revenge (>happiness)
moar

whats your objection to it eh?

 

[_dhj_]

Also if you're arguing for the death penalty for crimes other than murder you are completely fucking retarded.

But drug trafficking for instance has the potential to destroy people's lives and cause other social consequences (e.g. crime by drug addicts, family breakdown, moral decay). Of course there is a strict distinction in mens rea, but on a broader perspective there's no distinction if the motive is the desire for profit.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

what about piracy

yarghhh

 

[_dhj_]

This can also work if we lock them up


Watching people die makes you happier now?!?
Generally speaking revenge is not associated with what is right.



meh okay

Retribution is a major part of criminal justice at least from the victim and/or their family's perspective.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

^Indeed

Watching people die makes you happier now?!?

I'd say so. Victims families want revenge, and if revenge gets them over the hump or makes them feel better then I see no reason to deprive them of it. In most cases the families of victims have far more to offer to society then a cold blooded murderer would, so there's no reason to give value to the life of the murderer. What you're left with is a useless life belonging to a murderer over the sanity and livelihoods of the victims. I know which I'd give preference to.

And indeed, victims families very often want revenge in the form of death ("rot in prison").

 

[5233andy]

One can convict another for this and that. However, what one will never know is the state of mind of the criminal - what provoked his/her actions. Is it evil or is it madness? YOu have to realise that the human mind is highly complex - it's not like a computer where we can open it up and and have all the information before you.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

so we are suppose to kill a human being just so the victims can feel better???

what exactly is the argument against it?
to preserve life!
all killing is bad!
rawr!

if the victim is already dead then that is more than unfortunate but killing someone will not bring them back

nor will imprisonment.
and i did not once say that it will help bring back the victim, so don't misrepresent what im saying yo.

 

[townie]

So neb, i'm assuming you would also support the torture of criminals as well, given that might act as a deterrent, and would certainly be a form of revenge.

 

[townie]

Also, http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...n-death-penalty/2008/09/22/1221935546580.html

PRESSURE is mounting on the Rudd Government from the Labor back bench to adopt a tougher stand against the death penalty.

With three Australians on death row in Indonesia - including the 22-year-old convicted drug mule Scott Rush - a push is on for the Government to voice more publicly throughout the region its position as an abolitionist country.

The NSW MP Chris Hayes has lodged a notice of motion in Parliament calling on the Government to take a number of steps, including passing laws making it illegal for states and territories to reintroduce the death penalty. The current legal position means states and territories could reintroduce it, should they wish.

....

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

what exactly is the argument against it?
to preserve life!
all killing is bad!
rawr!

No, it's that logically if you believe that a life needs to be ceased due to them taking the life of another then you have to enact the process to remove that life. By the own recursive logic of the situation you, as a member of the state, have murdered and thus by your own moral compass deserve death.

It's pretty straightforward. Jimmy, your beliefs aren't that consistent, are they?

 

[HNAKXR]

I understand, but I'd rather see the punishment served out as life imprisonment. This way, the criminal then experiences the feeling of being isolated from society and ultimately experience the grave sense of guilt. In may circumstances, those who are imprisoned endeavour to hang themselves or whatnot. Hence the death penalty is only a first class ticket to exit the pain that he/she's bound to experience with life in gaol.

Firstly:
most psychotic individuals purposely isolate themselves from society therefore they might even enjoy the experience. prisoners hang themselves to reaffirm their control over their lives, not out of guilt

Secondly:
it would be far better if prisoners were brutally tortured to their execution day then letting them live through mild suffering in prison.

 

[HNAKXR]

No, it's that logically if you believe that a life needs to be ceased due to them taking the life of another then you have to enact the process to remove that life. By the own recursive logic of the situation you, as a member of the state, have murdered and thus by your own moral compass deserve death.

It's pretty straightforward. Jimmy, your beliefs aren't that consistent, are they?

for that to be so you must believe that human life has a fixed intrinsic value, i believe that the value of a life changes in accordance with an individuals actions so therefore an existence may become worthless. wherefore terminating it would not be ethically wrong.

so i have no fucking dilemma here. :uhhuh: