Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[*TRUE*]

"Cast out"? Moar details plz.

A lot of these so called possessions fit the pattern of medically explainable psychotic episodes quite neatly, so you can't say it must be that they are possessed by spirits, is all I'm saying.

Every exorcism I've ever seen (I've only ever seen them on TV, but hey, people take it seriously) looks extremely stage managed and manipulated to get you to think that miracles are being performed when really, people are just being worked into a frenzy by a charismatic leader, which I find pretty, well, disturbing, tbh.

Yeah , but surely there is a difference, a little difference, between Africans and TV personalities?
I cant speak , given the fact i havent MYSELF witnessed anything of the like , but ive heard of it so many times.
Once i went to a crusade by some famous dude and.....oh boy....i felt so bad afterwards

 

[want2bdifferent]

"Cast out"? Moar details plz.

A lot of these so called possessions fit the pattern of medically explainable psychotic episodes quite neatly, so you can't say it must be that they are possessed by spirits, is all I'm saying.

Every exorcism I've ever seen (I've only ever seen them on TV, but hey, people take it seriously) looks extremely stage managed and manipulated to get you to think that miracles are being performed when really, people are just being worked into a frenzy by a charismatic leader, which I find pretty, well, disturbing, tbh.

yeah i wouldnt trust TV exorcisms. I mean cast out as in an exorcism.

I agree with what you are saying with the fact that alot can be explained, with medical diagnosis.

 

[want2bdifferent]

That's probably a placebo effect. They believed they were possessed, and they believed that the ritual would heal them, so the belief that they were possessed disappeared.

but i think that if someone was possessed or appeared to be they would not be in there right mind, to think rational thoughts at all let alone believing that some ritual is going to heal them.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Yeah , but surely there is a difference, a little difference, between Africans and TV personalities?
I cant speak , given the fact i havent MYSELF witnessed anything of the like , but ive heard of it so many times.
Once i went to a crusade by some famous dude and.....oh boy....i felt so bad afterwards

Well I've never seen an exorcism in real life, I'm just going by what I've seen. I think there's a definite possibility that humans have the capability to exhibit psychic or for want of a better word "supernatural" mental qualities, for sure. The idea of being possessed by demons or spirits, however, is pretty flimsy imo. The placebo effect thing that webby was talking about explains a lot, I think. You experience these feelings and visions, your religious beliefs lead you to believe you're possessed, you go to an exorcist, he "casts out" your "demons" and you believe that this is effective, so you believe you've been cured, so you stop feeling insane for a while. It's unlikely you've actually been cured. Hence people going back because their demons have returned, etc. They haven't, you just need to take some meds and see a therapist.

Apologies if I'm coming across as narrow minded on the issue, I just can't really see a reason to believe in the possibility of being possessed by a demon when the symptoms are generally consistent with other conditions that can be treated with medication.

Of course, if anyone can show a study or something that points toward the possibility, I'll look into it. I haven't found any myself but that's not to say they don't exist or that there's zero credibility to the idea.

 

[webby234]

but i think that if someone was possessed or appeared to be they would not be in there right mind, to think rational thoughts at all let alone believing that some ritual is going to heal them.

Why does it take rational thoughts to hold the idea that a certain ritual is going to make you better?
EDIT: It doesn't necessarily have to be a conscious idea - i'm certainly not suggesting that these people are pretending or anything.

 

[Slidey]

I'm sure people have noticed a common theme here:

(1) The skeptic asks 'but why isn't there evidence in favour of the existence of this supernatural being?'

(2) The believer replies 'because it is in the nature of the supernatural being to obfuscate and make it so that their existence is never certain' (e.g. trickery on the part of satan, or faith-generation on the part of god)

I seem to remember Daniel Dennett pointing out that this is similar to the structure of the conspiracy theory, which often proves quite resilient because any attempt to deny the conspiracy is simply part of the conspiracy. These cultural memes are thus actively resistant to refutation, which is perhaps a large part of why they can be considered to fly in the face of scientific method. No wonder they persist.

I'd just like to quote this to increase its prominence.

You would do well to ponder these words, TRUE, as they resound strongly with your 'justifications'.

 

[*TRUE*]

Well I've never seen an exorcism in real life, I'm just going by what I've seen. I think there's a definite possibility that humans have the capability to exhibit psychic or for want of a better word "supernatural" mental qualities, for sure. The idea of being possessed by demons or spirits, however, is pretty flimsy imo. The placebo effect thing that webby was talking about explains a lot, I think. You experience these feelings and visions, your religious beliefs lead you to believe you're possessed, you go to an exorcist, he "casts out" your "demons" and you believe that this is effective, so you believe you've been cured, so you stop feeling insane for a while. It's unlikely you've actually been cured. Hence people going back because their demons have returned, etc. They haven't, you just need to take some meds and see a therapist.

Apologies if I'm coming across as narrow minded on the issue, I just can't really see a reason to believe in the possibility of being possessed by a demon when the symptoms are generally consistent with other conditions that can be treated with medication.

Of course, if anyone can show a study or something that points toward the possibility, I'll look into it. I haven't found any myself but that's not to say they don't exist or that there's zero credibility to the idea.

nah, you dont come across at all narrow minded
I'll keep my eyes open though....
(As i say , i dont know!!!)

 

[want2bdifferent]

Well I've never seen an exorcism in real life, I'm just going by what I've seen. I think there's a definite possibility that humans have the capability to exhibit psychic or for want of a better word "supernatural" mental qualities, for sure. The idea of being possessed by demons or spirits, however, is pretty flimsy imo. The placebo effect thing that webby was talking about explains a lot, I think. You experience these feelings and visions, your religious beliefs lead you to believe you're possessed, you go to an exorcist, he "casts out" your "demons" and you believe that this is effective, so you believe you've been cured, so you stop feeling insane for a while. It's unlikely you've actually been cured. Hence people going back because their demons have returned, etc. They haven't, you just need to take some meds and see a therapist.

Apologies if I'm coming across as narrow minded on the issue, I just can't really see a reason to believe in the possibility of being possessed by a demon when the symptoms are generally consistent with other conditions that can be treated with medication.

Of course, if anyone can show a study or something that points toward the possibility, I'll look into it. I haven't found any myself but that's not to say they don't exist or that there's zero credibility to the idea.

you are not appearing narrow minded to me at all. you dauf that generally they are consistant with medical conditions, what about those that are not. I do btw think that many believed possesions could be medical conditions, but I also think that there are many that are not.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

you are not appearing narrow minded to me at all. you dauf that generally they are consistant with medical conditions, what about those that are not. I do btw think that many believed possesions could be medical conditions, but I also think that there are many that are not.

Can you give examples? Of 'possessions' that can't be explained in a medical/psychiatric sense, I mean.

 

[Enteebee]

even if someone tries to cast it out and then the symptoms stop? I think it is very real. I am not saying however that all cases like this are possesions or anything like that, I think that they do happen though.

I'm going to be quite blunt, they're faking it. Do you believe hypnotism is real? Maybe if you read up about exactly how stage hypnotism works you'd have a better understanding of what might be going on when 'regular people' become 'possessed'.

 

[want2bdifferent]

Can you give examples? Of 'possessions' that can't be explained in a medical/psychiatric sense, I mean.

I think the floating one is possible whether you believe that has happened, like i have said i know people who have claimed to see it while on missions trips. There would be other ones i am not sure as to what there are though. Not everything can be explained though surely.

 

[Enteebee]

I think the floating one is possible whether you believe that has happened, like i have said i know people who have claimed to see it while on missions trips. There would be other ones i am not sure as to what there are though. Not everything can be explained though surely.

If you (or anyone you know) can actually show evidence of any paranormal event then go collect your million:

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.

http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html

 

[inasero]

I'd just like to quote this to increase its prominence.

You would do well to ponder these words, TRUE, as they resound strongly with your 'justifications'.

if a conspiracy was acknowledged it wouldn't be a conspiracy then would it? in any case no one's been promoting any conspiracy theories here...unless you go with the theory that Christianity is a tool to control the masses, in which case the burden of proof is on you

 

[Enteebee]

if a conspiracy was acknowledged it wouldn't be a conspiracy then would it? in any case no one's been promoting any conspiracy theories here...unless you go with the theory that Christianity is a tool to control the masses, in which case the burden of proof is on you

You obviously don't get the point. The point is not that anyone here has claimed a conspiracy theory, but that an often-employed method by christians to reject the importance of any lack of evidence is similar to that used by conspiracy theorists.

 

[want2bdifferent]

You obviously don't get the point. The point is not that anyone here has claimed a conspiracy theory, but that an often-employed method by christians to reject the importance of any lack of evidence is similar to that used by conspiracy theorists.

I dont think i need any evidence to believe what i believe though.I think that it is important to note that although there is no evidence (well at least the thing that you would call evidence) for christianity there is also no evidence against it.

 

[webby234]

I dont think i need any evidence to believe what i believe though.I think that it is important to note that although there is no evidence (well at least the thing that you would call evidence) for christianity there is also no evidence against it.

I dont think i need any evidence to believe what i believe though.I think that it is important to note that although there is no evidence (well at least the thing that you would call evidence) for the invisible pink unicorn there is also no evidence against it.

 

[inasero]

You obviously don't get the point. The point is not that anyone here has claimed a conspiracy theory, but that an often-employed method by christians to reject the importance of any lack of evidence is similar to that used by conspiracy theorists.

It's completely different, because the Christian isn't saying that their faith is dependent on the lack of evidence, but rather that it holds valid in itself just as rationalists use scientific reason. A very important distinction.

 

[Enteebee]

I dont think i need any evidence to believe what i believe though.I think that it is important to note that although there is no evidence (well at least the thing that you would call evidence) for christianity there is also no evidence against it.

No evidence against 'christianity' ?

a) There is no more evidence for the christian god than there is magical pixies making people fall in love with one another, it is good enough for me to discount magical pixies on this basis (as i'm sure it is for you also) and thus is good enough for me to equally discount the personal christian god.

a2) There is equal evidence for any other religion.

b) There is plenty of rational logic which goes against the concept of a personal god, as well as scientific notions which would need to be broken/bent in some way to allow for a personal god.

c) There is a lot of evidence for the claims of the christian bible being wrong.

d) There is evidence that the bible is indeed very much so a product of man, while this doesn't mean it couldn't still be true, it makes it seem very similar to all the other myths which exist/have existed in our world.

 

[IMABOYDAMON!]

if its invisible how can it be pink??

Food colouring.

 

[*TRUE*]

if its invisible how can it be pink??

lol