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Does God exist? (17 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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KFunk

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inasero said:
God designed humans with free will, but it's up to us to decide how we'll choose to live our lives. Surely you can't blame God for deliberately rejecting the only chance of salvation you're given.
Well yes, I would blame god. I fail to accept salvation because my cognitive predispositions deny me such an option. To my judging eye, the metaphysical claims of religion are on par with phrenology (and other pseudo-sciences) and, as such, I am simply unable to accept these claims as true. At no point did I choose my sense of reason. I inhereted genes which structured my brain, a family setting and a prescribed school syllabus. These things were not under my control, and yet they determine the way in which I reason about the world.


inasero said:
And even that's by grace alone- God would be well within his rights to deny anybody salvation because the Bible says we're all sinners and deserving of condemnation.
I disagree (on the grounds of the above). Such condemnation runs counter to my personal sense of justice, and thus I would not join such a club (much as I would decline to opportunity to join governments who commit human rights abuses).
 

squeenie

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"No man is an island" - John Donne.

We will never have complete free will. It is in our nature as humans to be influenced by our surrondings, and there is nothing that we can do to escape it.

Just what does salvation seek to absolve, anyway?
 

inasero

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3unitz said:
lol suppress the truth by wickedness? why would i suppress truth if it means going to heaven? what a load of utter shit. truth and reality are the only things i dont suppress - hence why i am atheist. what about you inasero? what truths do you suppress? what evidence do you ignore? evolution? NO NO NONO THE SCIENTISTS ARE WRONG!!! *IGNORES EVIDENCE*

Originally Posted by Romans 1:18-20
For since James transferred to his new high school, his invisible qualities—his kind soul and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from his drop-dead gorgeous looks, so that all the ladies are without excuse.
tell me where's the evidence for evolution?
 

inasero

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squeenie said:
"No man is an island" - John Donne.

We will never have complete free will. It is in our nature as humans to be influenced by our surrondings, and there is nothing that we can do to escape it.

Just what does salvation seek to absolve, anyway?
i agree we're influenced by our own surroundings, but it's false to take a deterministic view and conclude there's nothing we can do about it. if that's the case then why do you bother getting up every morning and going to school?
 

squeenie

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inasero said:
i agree we're influenced by our own surroundings, but it's false to take a deterministic view and conclude there's nothing we can do about it. if that's the case then why do you bother getting up every morning and going to school?
I didn't say that we don't have free will. I'm saying that we are influenced by our surroundings to a certain degree, and that's just the way we are. There are some things that will always be beyond our control. But the for the things that we do have control over, we should make the best out of them while we can.
 

KFunk

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inasero said:
i agree we're influenced by our own surroundings, but it's false to take a deterministic view and conclude there's nothing we can do about it. if that's the case then why do you bother getting up every morning and going to school?
Haha, but that question seems to imply that we have a choice about whether or not we bother in the first place. That we bother is determined.

(On a side note it is also worth noting that depressive apathy is of little utility, in the evolutionary sense).
 

*TRUE*

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KFunk said:
Haha, but that question seems to imply that we have a choice about whether or not we bother in the first place. That we bother is determined.

(On a side note it is also worth noting that depressive apathy is of little utility, in the evolutionary sense).
Here you go Kieran I am giving you the choice to bother, right now :)
 
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KFunk

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Also, note that aesthetic/moral appeal and truth are not coextensive.
 

squeenie

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KFunk said:
Haha, but that question seems to imply that we have a choice about whether or not we bother in the first place. That we bother is determined.

(On a side note it is also worth noting that depressive apathy is of little utility, in the evolutionary sense).
I do my best to not be apathetic, but sometimes, you can't help it. Depressive apathy is of no utlity of all, if you ask me.

"It's not that I'm apathetic... I just don't care!"
 

KFunk

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*TRUE* said:
Here you go Kieran :) I am giving you the choice to bother, right now :)
I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't feel that it is within your power. Nonetheless, I'm not in need of help on this count. I love life and try to make the most of it.
 

Iron

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True, you actually harm your cause when you post dumb-arse things like that against a lion like KFunk.
Nobody is interested in your martyrdom here.
 

*TRUE*

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Iron said:
True, you actually harm your cause when you post dumb-arse things like that against a lion like KFunk.
Nobody is interested in your martyrdom here.
Kieran knows why i say it.
Im not dying for my cause :) Nor are u for that matter.
 
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squeenie

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Iron said:
True, you actually harm your cause when you post dumb-arse things like that against a lion like KFunk.
Nobody is interested in your martyrdom here.
Here we go again with the holier-than-thou-ness...

Come on people, they're not THAT bad. At least we're not dealing with cultists, here :).
 
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CharlieB

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For those unaware:

Origen - De Principiis (early Christian Scholar ¬ 200AD) said:
What intelligent person can imagine that there was a first day, then a second and third day, evening and morning, without the sun, the moon, and the stars? [Sun, moon, and stars are created on the fourth day.] And that the first day -- if it makes sense to call it such -- existed even without a sky? [The sky is created on the second day.] Who is foolish enough to believe that, like a human gardener, God planted a garden in Eden in the East and placed in it a tree of life, visible and physical, so that by biting into its fruit one would obtain life? And that by eating from another tree, one would come to know good and evil? And when it is said that God walked in the garden in the evening and that Adam hid himself behind a tree, I cannot imagine that anyone will doubt that these details point symbolically to spiritual meanings by using a historical narrative which did not literally happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis
 

Enteebee

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inasero said:
tell me where's the evidence for evolution?
You reject logic in favour of god anyway so what would it matter?
 
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inasero said:
tell me where's the evidence for evolution?
I myself believe that God exists and do not believe in evolution, despite being an enthusiastic Biology student. I will note on your post that the evidence for evolution cannot be denied, you'll probably find a couple of chapters devoted to it in most HSC bio textbooks. But the fact is that there is evidence and we know natural selection (a major aspect of the theory as you probably know) can occur (Antibiotic resistant bacteria are a very good example.)

But even though there is evidence for Darwin's theory does not mean I believe it. I used to, but now it doesn't make sense. I choose not to accept it. No matter how much I write about it in class. You're welcome to think I must be crazy to be doing Biology considering my beliefs.
 

inasero

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3unitz said:
go fucking research it yourself, and see what science has to say. dont you know how to do research (hint: it doesnt start with going to answersingenesis)
you said

3unitz said:
lol suppress the truth by wickedness? why would i suppress truth if it means going to heaven? what a load of utter shit. truth and reality are the only things i dont suppress - hence why i am atheist. what about you inasero? what truths do you suppress? what evidence do you ignore? evolution? NO NO NONO THE SCIENTISTS ARE WRONG!!! *IGNORES EVIDENCE*
if you're arguing your case on the supposed abundance of evidence for evolution, shouldn't you at least be able to back up your claims? yet you have the gall to question my ability to research these facts.

I know what the scientific facts and theories are. I want to know if you do as well, so I know I'm not wasting my time arguing. Fair enough no?
 

inasero

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squeenie said:
I didn't say that we don't have free will. I'm saying that we are influenced by our surroundings to a certain degree, and that's just the way we are. There are some things that will always be beyond our control. But the for the things that we do have control over, we should make the best out of them while we can.
I'm curious what kind of things do you believe we have control over?

edit: Or rather, what things do we not have control over?
 

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