Does God exist? (2 Viewers)

[Tumnus]

Good argument, but why does the man come first before the women, sexist. Im also a bit of a feminism..(heh)

Qn: would you rather be created from someones rib or dust?

 

[melissa92]

Qn: would you rather be created from someones rib or dust?

Adam came from a woman..makes much more sense, and whats wrong with Adam coming from Eve??..is it so hard to get??.. Ribs is better than dust obviously, but still, unfair..and wrong..

 

[Tumnus]

Revelation 21:8 describes groups of people that will automatically be sent to hell. Among them is listed "sorcerers".

i haven't read the text but one must be careful in such an aproach as the Bible also says that we are not to judge who will go to heaven and who won't - Jesus does that and he looks at the heart - something we mortals can't even fully comprehend.

 

[xxheersaletixx]

the votes are exactly 50 50 right now

 

[Graney]

Has anyone actually seen the big bang? no.

There is overwhelming evidence it happened however. Eye witness reports are the among the least reliable of evidence, the evidence that does exist for the big bang is much better than if it could have been observed. I don't have to see an atom to know it exists, but I can see the abundant evidence demonstrating its existence. The conditions observed in the universe are exactly as predicted if the big bang took place.

Has anyone seen Jesus? yes.

The bible is not a reliable source in any way. Nothing written in it can be relied upon to have happened. Jesus may not have existed.

Since when has doing something bad not involved some sort of punishment or guilt trip - there are consequences for everything we do.

Not really. If I break the law willfully, and am never caught, what consequence have I suffered?

 

[Graney]

i haven't read the text but one must be careful in such an aproach as the Bible also says that we are not to judge who will go to heaven and who won't - Jesus does that and he looks at the heart - something we mortals can't even fully comprehend.

I'm not judging anyone, I'm citing exactly what the book says, be a sorcerer, go to hell.

Revelations was inspired by Christ and his teachings. He judged, not me.

 

[ablle]

why does bad stuff hapen?, because of the fall, and god lets it happen so he can find who truelly would believe without proof!

Shouldn't he already know this, being omniscient and all? Wouldn't that mean he's letting bad shit happen for no reason? Wouldn't that make him an asshole?

Has anyone actually seen the big bang? no.
Has anyone seen Jesus? yes. Jesus who is God, the Holy Spirit and Himself.

Have you actually seen Iraq? Have you actually seen the centre of the earth?

Since when has doing something bad not involved some sort of punishment or guilt trip - there are consequences for everything we do.

Since when has a finite number of crimes/wrongdoings justified an eternity of torture?

because God loved and respected us so much that he gave us choice, the choice to make our OWN decisions.

He gave us the choice to follow a 2000 year old book or suffer an eternity of torture. Now that's love. Real love involves accepting someone no matter what they do, not punishing them doe doing something as inconsequential as not loving you back.

People know God is there.

No they don't.

Take my cousin for example, lets call her Amelia.

lol
People know God isn't there. Take my cousin for example, lets call her Amelia. Amelia is four years old and attended my brothers baptism, i took her up to the Priest to receive a blessing. A concept that she did not understand at all "Is it [the blessing] in your pocket? It's in your hands isn't it?"
However she did ask me who is Jesus? She told me that she knew Jesus was already was a bad person who lots of people hated and never came to this place. She told me he was a bad person. Coming from a person who has no external religious influences, coming from a family who does not regularly attend church nor have any real belief in God or Jesus, yet here she was telling me that he was a bad person that everyone hated.

God exists - prove me wrong

God doesn't exist. Prove me wrong.

Burden of proof lies with you. Remember, that which is presented with no evidence can be rejected with no evidence.

 

[Tumnus]

God doesn't exist. Prove me wrong.

Burden of proof lies with you. Remember, that which is presented with no evidence can be rejected with no evidence.

"Seek and ye shall find."

 

[Brontecat]

There is overwhelming evidence it happened however. Eye witness reports are the among the least reliable of evidence, the evidence that does exist for the big bang is much better than if it could have been observed. I don't have to see an atom to know it exists, but I can see the abundant evidence demonstrating its existence. The conditions observed in the universe are exactly as predicted if the big bang took place.


The bible is not a reliable source in any way. Nothing written in it can be relied upon to have happened. Jesus may not have existed.


Not really. If I break the law willfully, and am never caught, what consequence have I suffered?

To me the fact that Christians acknowledge Jesus as the son of God and that both Islam and Judaism say that yes Jesus did exist, i think that Muslims even belive he was a prophet?

Good point on the last one, yes there are those cases: though i would hope that they would feel some sort of guilt or remorse

 

[ablle]

"Seek and ye shall find."

This is not a counter-argument. You're as bad as Iron.

To me the fact that Christians acknowledge Jesus as the son of God and that both Islam and Judaism say that yes Jesus did exist, i think that Muslims even belive he was a prophet?

To me the fact that atheists do not acknowledge Jesus as the son of God says that no Jesus did not exist. Also, your sentence didn't make sense.

 

[Graney]

To me the fact that Christians acknowledge Jesus as the son of God and that both Islam and Judaism say that yes Jesus did exist, i think that Muslims even belive he was a prophet?

To me the what? You mean this is the evidence you have to validate the existence of Jesus?

So you're saying, you believe Jesus existed, because many other people have been deluded into believing he existed.

And what reason do those people have to believe he existed? They believe he existed, because others believe he existed!

It's perfect reasoning

"Seek and ye shall find."

Meaningless platitudes are not wanted here.

 

[Brontecat]

Shouldn't he already know this, being omniscient and all? Wouldn't that mean he's letting bad shit happen for no reason? Wouldn't that make him an asshole?

Have you actually seen Iraq? Have you actually seen the centre of the earth?

Since when has a finite number of crimes/wrongdoings justified an eternity of torture?

He gave us the choice to follow a 2000 year old book or suffer an eternity of torture. Now that's love. Real love involves accepting someone no matter what they do, not punishing them doe doing something as inconsequential as not loving you back.

As I previously said i do believe that God is forgiving however i do also believe that there are certain crimes that without remorse are not deserving of mercy. However, as i have also said i do not believe that it is my right to judge and decide what i think God should do.

"Seek and ye shall find."

"Ask and it shall be given unto you"

 

[Cookie182]

It is a shame that there is a sheer lack of intellect in the theistic posters over the last 5 pages and this really calls for no effort on the atheist forefront.

Additionally, it appears that many people have 'faith' without even reading the Bible or their respective religious texts. I think that is the most ignorant act of all, as you will find any intelligent atheist will have generally read the Bible, Torah, Qu'ran (at least parts), and a wide range of religious history/philosophy before making any arguments.

As a matter of relevance, I'm currently reading a brief overview of Buddhist sutras and finding it quite stimulating.

Edit:

In fact, Iron is the only theist I enjoy a discussion with, well at least at this point.

What other intelligent theists are regular posters? Or is this a paradoxical question: D ?

 

[Brontecat]

To me the what? You mean this is the evidence you have to validate the existence of Jesus?

So you're saying, you believe Jesus existed, because many other people have been deluded into believing he existed.

And what reason do those people have to believe he existed? They believe he existed, because others believe he existed!

It's perfect reasoning

Meaningless platitudes are not wanted here.

Secular Evidence:

"In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger)."

 

[ablle]

As I previously said i do believe that God is forgiving however i do also believe that there are certain crimes that without remorse are not deserving of mercy.

So you think there are crimes that are deserving of infinite punishment? Is not loving god one such crime? Because as far as I know anyone who does not love god will go to hell.

However, as i have also said i do not believe that it is my right to judge and decide what i think God should do.

If you can't think for yourself no wonder you believe in a god.

"Ask and it shall be given unto you"

I ask for proof of god, delivered by god himself. I ask for the right to make my own choices about how to live my life, without worrying about what god wants me to do. Do you think god will give me these things? pfft.

 

[Tumnus]

The bible is not a reliable source in any way. Nothing written in it can be relied upon to have happened. Jesus may not have existed.

Oh, realy? you would know? Have you read the books of Daniel and Revelation? I think its fair to say that it has prophesied things "to the letter" correctly. Also have you ever wondered where the whole notion of moral codes and values came from? Many do not realise the detrimental theories of evolution (as opposed to the teachings in the Bible). its what caused millions of deaths through nazi germany, communist russia, WW2 Japan through its concepts of some beings/creatures/humans being supperior to others.

Qn: would you rather live in a world that lives according to Biblical teachings or one that doesn't?

 

[Brontecat]

So you think there are crimes that are deserving of infinite punishment? Is not loving god one such crime? Because as far as I know anyone who does not love god will go to hell.

so do you believe that there is a hell? Having love for God and believing in God can sometimes be different?

If you can't think for yourself no wonder you believe in a god.

Offering personal criticism does nothing to help you prove your point.

I ask for proof of god, delivered by god himself. I ask for the right to make my own choices about how to live my life, without worrying about what god wants me to do. Do you think god will give me these things? pfft.

You have been given that right. Are you not already making your own choices with no concern for God?

 

[ablle]

Many do not realise the detrimental theories of evolution (as opposed to the teachings in the Bible). its what caused millions of deaths through nazi germany, communist russia, WW2 Japan through its concepts of some beings/creatures/humans being supperior to others.

OH MY FUCKING GOD AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. You, sir, are truly a daft cunt. Please come back when you pass year nine science and have some concept of world history.

Oh, realy? you would know? Have you read the books of Daniel and Revelation? I think its fair to say that it has prophesied things "to the letter" correctly.

lol

Also have you ever wondered where the whole notion of moral codes and values came from?

They come from society, not the bible. To say otherwise would be to say that societies before the bible was written had no moral codes or values. Which would be almost as retarded as your knowledge of evolution.

Qn: would you rather live in a world that lives according to Biblical teachings or one that doesn't?

One that doesn't please.

so do you believe that there is a hell? Having love for God and believing in God can sometimes be different?

No, yes, yes. Now answer my question.

Offering personal criticism does nothing to help you prove your point.

As opposed to offering personal opinions, which is exactly what you're doing?

You have been given that right. Are you not already making your own choices with no concern for God?

I shall rephrase that: I ask for the right to do what I want with my life without being punished for it for eternity.

 

[Cookie182]

Oh, realy? you would know? Have you read the books of Daniel and Revelation? I think its fair to say that it has prophesied things "to the letter" correctly. Also have you ever wondered where the whole notion of moral codes and values came from? Many do not realise the detrimental theories of evolution (as opposed to the teachings in the Bible). its what caused millions of deaths through nazi germany, communist russia, WW2 Japan through its concepts of some beings/creatures/humans being supperior to others.

Qn: would you rather live in a world that lives according to Biblical teachings or one that doesn't?

lol

I'd crush you, but I'm trying to price Call Options.

Here's a good book for you:

God is not Great (Christopher Hichens)
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...anVBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11

 

[Tumnus]

so do you believe that there is a hell?

Yes, yet not the "common" belief that bad people burn for their sins into all eternity. I believe what the Bible says and it doesn't say that. "the fire (hell) shall not be quenched" may be interpreted as they will burn forever. Yet fire doesn't burn forever, it needs fuel, thus will stop when judgement is complete and there's nothing left to burn. The fire and brimstone punishment on soddom and gomora can be parraleled to those in the lake of fire and brimstone (hell).