Does God exist? (15 Viewers)

[Holly_H]

I'm afraid it doesnt work like that!
Your conscience is impure

Ah my friend an impure conscience is relative, not absolute.

 

[Iron]

I made a friend.
I'm so happy

 

[KFunk]

When it comes to the existence of god, don't we have a special case? The proposition "a god exists" is unfalsifiable, unlike "the number of hairs on my leg is even" or similar. Due to this, the one putting forward the positive existential claim has the burden of proof, and the one who is denying the existential claim only requires there to be a lack of evidence to the contrary.

Firstly, a problem emerges if you want to demonstrate that the proposition is unfalsifiable, for unless the relevant concept of 'god' entails that the existence of god is unfalsifiable I can't see, intuitively, how you could possibly demonstrate unfalsifiability by empirical means. Note that there are plenty of conceptions of god which are potentially falsifiable. In order to make your argument hold generally you would have to argue that the only possible form of god is an unfalsifiable one.

I agree that burden of proof lies with the individual wanting to assert the existence of god, but I still think agnosticism is a tenable position. If you read my post from a few pages back I identify an example of an entity, prime matter, which can neither be imagined nor observed - yet it remains unclear, for me at least, whether we should deny its existence.

 

[BradCube]

It is in cases where it is impossible to know that I think burden of proof is most interesting. More correctly, we know that proof is impossible either way in such cases so it is not a matter of burden of proof so much as intellectually responsible assumption.

I too find it very interesting. You've prompted my mind in your dialogue in wondering whether it is even possible for something to exist without having evidence of it's existence (note that evidence in this case goes far beyond verificationism). What does it mean to say that something exists without that something having any impact or evidence of it's existence? I am inclined to think that if an entity has absolutely no evidence or proof of it's existence - it probably doesn't exist in reality.

In saying this though, I wish to make sure I am understood correctly. My statement could be miss-interpreted as, "If I find no evidence for the existence of an entity, it probably doesn't exist". The difference confuses epistemology with ontology. I am not addressing whether an entity exists based on our methods of knowing the evidence for the existence of said entity. Rather I am addressing whether an entity actually exists (and not whether we can know it exists) if it is incapable of providing evidence of its existence.

To make this doubly clear I will use the recent prime matter as an example.

I am not arguing that a lack of evidence for prime matter justifies our belief that it does not exist.
I am asking whether prime matter actually exists if it is incapable of giving off any evidence for its existence.

Debate with respect to what constitutes a good epistemic position? Or with respect to whether we should allow a criteria which allows for individual definitions of epistemic warrant? (Or both!?)

I was thinking of what constitutes a good epistemic position. I don't know how someone would (or even if they could) debate the latter. It would seem to me that all people should be bound by the same level of justification for rational belief - just as how all people are bound by the rules of logic.

 

[SylviaB]

As soon as you get a whiff of knowledge of Him and willfully choose not to follow Him, youre cooked, boyow

Thar's yer problem.

I don't know he exists; seems more like a 2000 years of unreliable hearsay.

Mmhmm
'Life isn't fair , anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.' You better believe it.

God is supposedly benevolent.

 

[Iron]

Yes, but why should His benevolence be matched to your standards? I believe CS Lewis likened Him to a carpenter and us to an ordinary house; at first we welcome the minor repairs he makes - fixing leaks, replacing windows etc. But then He starts doing things that we cant understand and dont welcome! He knocks out whole wings, tears out staircases, bulldozes gardens and starts building other stuff and it hurts! And we're all like 'No! I juz wanted to be an ordinary humble cottage!' and Heee's all like 'Stfu! I'm building a palace which will make you fit for me to live in' and yer

 

[Holly_H]

Hey Iron, the mods deleted our other thread?? did i miss something?

 

[ComingUpForAir]

you have to understand that these people have not come to their conclusions through rational and independent thought, and you can hence not persaude them through rational discourse....it is best to treat them as astrologers or people that believe elvis is still alive: pat them on the head and when they get sick say 'wheres your god now b****'.

 

[Iron]

Hey Iron, the mods deleted our other thread?? did i miss something?

The mods arent very good around here, i'm afraid. I would encourage you to unleash a flood of spam until they resign in exhaustion

 

[x.christina]

I made a friend.
I'm so happy

:mad1:
*twitchy eye*

EDIT: moved on already?

 

[Iron]

You-need-someone
older-and-wiser

 

[x.christina]

I am 17 going on 18
I know that I'm naive
Fellows I meet may tell me I'm sweet
And willingly I believe

 

[Iron]

 

[x.christina]

I need someone older and wiser
Telling me what to do
You are a man of steely Iron
I'll depend on youuuuuuuuuuu

/proceeds to dance around

 

[Iron]

 

[x.christina]

LOOK AT THIS LINK IRON ITS AMAZING IT TRULY IS

hehehehehehe

EDIT: lol i didn't do it out of boredom its for this thing ebony and wikiwiki are organising, i got my own page

 

[KFunk]

Haute.

 

[x.christina]

Haute.

Iron's on the right

 

[Iron]

LOOK AT THIS LINK IRON ITS AMAZING IT TRULY IS

hehehehehehe

EDIT: lol i didn't do it out of boredom its for this thing ebony and wikiwiki are organising, i got my own page

That was highly offensive and blasphemous. Shame on you.

Oh..
Hey KFunk /guilt

 

[x.christina]

That was highly offensive and blasphemous. Shame on you.

Oh..
Hey KFunk /guilt

You loved it, dont deny it

(btw its not a complete accurate depiction )