Does God exist? (16 Viewers)

[Wilmo]

I never said that! If I did, it WOULD be a load tripe! I absolutely suck and I will never deny that! If I do, I give you permission to shoot me!

My claim is that not one single person is good enough for God. Judged against the standards of everyone else, you might be a good enough person. BUT that is not the measure! Our measure is the righteousness of God.

The only thing that can measure up to the goodness of God is the goodness of God itself. Only God is righteous enough to please God! Which puts us in a dilly of a pickle because no matter what we do, we cant be right with God.

Only one man lived a completely righteous life. That man was Jesus. And on him all the punishment that we deserve was place so that he may present us before God as righteous.

I am a christian. It does not make me better than you. It does not mean I've been a better person so I've earnt the right to be a christian. In fact I suck so much that I have no doubt that anyone is better than me!

The difference is that I have asked Jesus to take my sin from me, to pay the penalty that I deserve because I am not good enough to ever pay it. And he did. Now when God looks at me, he doesn't see sinful Wilmo, but he sees the beautiful righteousness of his Son. His own righteousness. And with that he is satisfied.

Christians are not the best people... but Jesus was righteous, and he gave his life as a ransom for many that they may be considered righteous before God

 

[otay]

Jesus Was Way Cool

Jesus was way cool. Everybody liked Jesus.
Everybody wanted to hang out with him.
Anything he wanted to do, he did.
He turned water into wine, and if he had wanted to,
He could have turned wheat into marijuana, sugar into cocaine,
or vitamin pills into amphetamines.
He walked on the water and swam on the land.
He would tell these stories and people would listen.
He was really cool.
If you were blind, or lame, you just went to Jesus and he would put his
hands on you and you would be healed.
That's so cool.

He could have played guitar better than Hendrix.
He could have told the future.
He could have baked the most delicious cake in the world.
He could have scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky.
He could have danced better than Baryshnikov.
Jesus would have been funnier than any comedian you can think of.

Jesus told people to eat his body and drink his blood.
That's so cool. Jesus was so cool.
But then some people got jealous of how cool he was, so they killed him.

But then he rose from the dead! He rose from the dead, did a little dance, and went up to heaven. I mean, that's so cool. No wonder there are so many Christians.

 

[veterandoggy]

I mean, that's so cool. No wonder there are so many Christians.

Hey! you guys had 600 years of conquests as a head start!

 

[SashatheMan]

Hey! you guys had 600 years of conquests as a head start!

but muhammad had a legion on idiots who are easily tricked into believing balony

 

[veterandoggy]

and what do ya know? it totally smoked aetheism in regards to followers...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

and what do ya know? it totally smoked aetheism in regards to followers...

Yes, because what is most followed is always the most accurate choice...
I suggest you sign up on the christianity bandwagon if that's how you want to think.

 

[veterandoggy]

were catching up...

and i guess the world is 95+% idiots and <5% sane people?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well it's not about idiots and sane people... more people who have properly logically criticised their religion, and people who have not. I also believe there are alot more atheists than studies might show, while I may put myself down as a catholic due to being born a catholic I am actually atheist... It's just when you don't care that much some people will continue to place themselves in X religious group.

But to be honest, your argument holds no ground. 500 years ago 99.95% of the world thought the earth was flat, probably more like 99.999999%.... does that make them right? Hell no.

 

[euskadi_warrior]

I also believe there are alot more atheists than studies might show... It's just when you don't care that much some people will continue to place themselves in X religious group.

Yeh, I read a report somewhere about that where they surveyed a number of people asking of what religion they were and a huge majority said they were part of a religious group. However, when asked if they believed in what their religious tradition believes, a huge amount of people responded negatively. If I can find this report, I'll post it up.

 

[nedzelic]

This thread is for discussions about whether God exists.

I created a similar thread a long with the same title but I eventually deleted it because it became a monster. I am reluctant to recreate this thread, however such discussions about God are encroaching on a number of different topics and should be contained.

I strongly suggest that anyone taking part in this thread read the Fallacies section of the argument guide.

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you gullible cretins

 

[withoutaface]

were catching up...

and i guess the world is 95+% idiots and <5% sane people?

Argumentum ad populum. Please stop now.

 

[chockie]

i can't remember who said it...but whoever said that even if proof was found for God, they wouldn't follow the bible...

whether God exists or not, imagine what the world would be like if everyone followed the bible's values of love, forgiveness, helping the poor, healing the broken etc? You're either contributing to the unfortunate state of society today, or working to make it better. People complain about the world being so terrible. Now, I wonder why it is. Think about it.

In a postmodern society that says life has no meaning, why are so many people still trying to find it? You only have to look around to see that humans have an innate desire for purpose...something to complete their lives, whether it be money or whatever.

I believe God exists and i see evidence all around me. Miracles aren't some story from an ancient book - they still happen today. I think denying the possibility of miracles is extraordinarily closed-minded. I don't deny the possibilty of, for example, evolution. One of my science teachers believes God created the world and evolution was a factor in the continual creation of plant and animal species.

I think people are scared of the truth because of the implications it would have on their lives. In reality, the truth will set you free but i can't make you understand that.

Lee Strobel - The Case For Christ is a good book. Yes, it argues FOR Christianity, but was written by a guy who was a lawyer (if i remember right) and originally set out to disprove Christianity's claims. Very interesting.

 

[Generator]

whether God exists or not, imagine what the world would be like if everyone followed the bible's values of love, forgiveness, helping the poor, healing the broken etc? You're either contributing to the unfortunate state of society today, or working to make it better. People complain about the world being so terrible. Now, I wonder why it is. Think about it.

Ah, did it ever occur to you that such ideas aren't to found only within the bible (or any other religious text for that matter), or that religious notions are but one of the many social constructs that guide our actions? No? Well, I suggest that you think about what has been written within this thread, too.

I think people are scared of the truth because of the implications it would have on their lives. In reality, the truth will set you free but i can't make you understand that.

It's not a truth, it's an escape. I'm not denying that for some it sets them free from the worries of the world and life in general (or that such an escape is necessarily bad (when it doesn't encourage insular behaviour, that is)), but it isn't as though it's a tangible truth as you suggest.

 

[chockie]

It's not a truth, it's an escape. I'm not denying that for some it sets them free from the worries of the world and life in general (or that such an escape is necessarily bad (when it doesn't encourage insular behaviour, that is)), but it isn't as though it's a tangible truth as you suggest.

It wasn't my suggestion, i was quoting - "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32) That Jesus claimed to actually BE the truth is a pretty big call...in my opinion he must be either mad or power hungry or...not lying. Mad - well no historical fact about him suggests such. Power hungry - he travelled from place to place, without a home of his own, living off the charity of friends, and no wealth whatsoever. Telling the truth...well he just might've been.

"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." - Luke 1:1-4

That to me doesn't sound like a storybook, it sounds like an historical account. Luke was a Greek doctor - a learned man. Therefore i choose also to believe the existence of God, the claims of Jesus and his works and miracles that it goes on to document.

But that is my choice.

 

[veterandoggy]

we say muhammad was illiterate and uneducated (which he was) and couldnt have possibly thought up of what is in the quran, but as you can see it isnt enough evidence to prove god's existence, since nothing is enough to PROVE it, only to give reason.

 

[gerhard]

It wasn't my suggestion, i was quoting - "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32) That Jesus claimed to actually BE the truth is a pretty big call...in my opinion he must be either mad or power hungry or...not lying. Mad - well no historical fact about him suggests such. Power hungry - he travelled from place to place, without a home of his own, living off the charity of friends, and no wealth whatsoever. Telling the truth...well he just might've been.

this is a pretty terrible argument


edit: also the second bit. luke was a doctor and he believed! it must be true! youre appealing to an authority because you cant give your own reasons, and its not even a real authourity but a fallacious one; a doctor is an expert in medicine, not in religion.

 

[SGS05]

If any sort of higher being does exist then why do they/ does he let shit happen to us all the time?

 

[malkin86]

Christians - maybe I don't understand this - why was Jesus's blood needed to wash away the sins of the world?

Couldn't God just have sent Jesus down and let him die at a ripe old age, and just written the previous sins off, without needing bloodshed?

It might have been more effective in the short term, but would Jesus have been such a hit if he hadn't been a martyr?

 

[gerhard]

question to muslims about jesus - you guys say jesus was a prophet, correct? but what about when jesus said he was the son of god? do you think that jesus was simply mistaken about this, or that he was lying or...

 

[chockie]

this is a pretty terrible argument

Unless you're prepared to deny that a man named Jesus ever existed, then you have to at least consider the claims he made.