Does God exist? (3 Viewers)

[T-mac01]

Who are these practioners? Why do you trust them?
What is a celestial eye? We know how bad witness testimony can be for a variety of reasons (not just delusions), why do you consider this great enough to believe something so fantastic?



What 'things' exactly? Lots of people claim to have seen ghosts, aliens and elvis that have had no contacts and weren't acquainted... Lots of people claim to have seen David Copperfield cut a woman in half. Now have you considered that perhaps Li performed a magic trick before these captivated followers to make them believe he can levitate? If you have considered that, how have you eliminated that possibility.

You see to me... before I could even consider such a possibility I would at least need to completely eliminate all the mundane ones - I doubt you've even done that.



No... I act on it also, I'm just much more critical than you imho.



Sounds like the typical nonsense you get from all religion, they encourage faith and a complete lack of doubt... they always seem to admire their most obedient servants and not those who will question.

There are five levels of celestial eye in which I've forgotten some of their names. It goes something like the flesh celestial, ** celestial, wisdom celestial, and Buddha celestial ... or something like that. People who've seen devils? I've heard about that. But not the rest. Essentially, it's between your eyebrows and there are scientific proof on the biological nature of its existence. Anyway, it has been mentioned that only the wisdom celestial or above I think, will be opened. This is because the with the flesh celestial eye, etc, make you see things around us. That will violate the human society because of reasons like, the possibility of seeing all the lottery tickets, etc. Opening the wisdom celestial eye helps you to encourage your confidence in your practice.

Regarding the "magic trick". I've actually considered that a lot. But I just can't imagine how making you believe in what he's telling me will cause some sort of hallucinations. You read the book, and listen to his lectures and digest his talks. Maybe there is a possibility that all this will generate some chemistry in our brain that make us see things. Do you find that a strong possiblity?

There is no why I can "eliminate that possibility" because in order to achieve my goals of enlightenment you have to genuinely practice it.
I should say that what I had said about doubting or not doubting it, that is just my own opinion. But from Li's words, he actually only said that he does not want people who are seriouslly ill to come here and practice Falun Gong. Those attachments (the desire to heal illnesses only) will not lead you to enlightenment. People should only consider practicing Falun Gong because he wants to be cultivated.

I've considered on whether if there is a truth that believing it produce some sort of inconceivable chemistry in the brain. But personally, I only see it as a remote possibility. And whether I will naturally hallucinate with my own strong desire, I really doubt that because
1. I never delude or hallucinate except in dreams
2. Those who see things occur during the day (awake) as much as when they are asleep and falling or waking from sleep.
3. It has been repeated that with a strong desire to open the celestial, one will never be opened. Only when you've removed those kind of attachment shall you have the possibility of seeing things. This is because your desires attract some kind of useless particles from the space of universe from different dimensions and blokes the actual path of vision.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Regarding the "magic trick". I've actually considered that a lot. But I just can't imagine how making you believe in what he's telling me will cause some sort of hallucinations. You read the book, and listen to his lectures and digest his talks. Maybe there is a possibility that all this will generate some chemistry in our brain that make us see things. Do you find that a strong possiblity?

What do you claim you've seen and I'll maybe help explain it.

 

[T-mac01]

What do you claim you've seen and I'll maybe help explain it.

Haven't seen anything yet but yes I'll let you know if I do see things. But I don't want to keep thinking about those kind of little things, it will just disturb my actual goal.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It's not a little thing, this guy you're trusting has claimed to be able to levitate... I'd want to know if he's a scammer, insane or a miracle.

 

[robbie1]

In a way I'm on his side because I don't think God interjected at all in what happened to her. In another way I'm not because he's claiming that God exists, controls all things (so set up for her to get hit by a car), but also changed his mind and let her be healthy because her family prayed for her.

when did i say that God 'controls' all things?

that is not true...people have free will and control their own actions

everything belongs to God exept our free will, which he gave us, and that is why we when we face him in the next life we are judged - because we chose to kill somebody, we choose to reject God, we choose to rob a homeless person...etc

 

[T-mac01]

It's not a little thing, this guy you're trusting has claimed to be able to levitate... I'd want to know if he's a scammer, insane or a miracle.

I've never met anyone that can levitate personally. Only words of mouth. But apparently, most of those who can are unable to control the time of their levitation. Let's put it this way. They don't have controls over that. And I've heard that those who have experienced it were scared because when they're practice sitting with eyes closed, and when they open them, they realises that they are near top of the ceiling. When this happens, they usually just immediately fall. Yes, they open their eyes because they felt their suspension in the air.
I get the feeling that it usually happens when they're practice during sitting so no one would be allowed to disturb them at those times.
Btw, it has been mentioned that these supernatural phenomena are not to be publicly displayed. So anyone with an intention to showoff can't do so because Mr Li will just lock those supernatural abilities for them.

Anyway, the reason for not publicly showing off these abilities is that it will disturb the normal human society. I'd briefly mentioned this early on that the reason we are here is because some need to pay back debts of de, some are already God and came down to achieve a higher level of enlightenment but not knowing it. So in order to testify this, humans must have this remained as a mystery and let themselves seek the truth from "the maze". If humans have seen all these amazing display of abilities, everyone would be here to practice it. Even the evil ones that are not meant to practice Falun Gong will do so. So here you go. Only those who had the fate possibliy will be able to cross the maze.

You're probably wondering how I knew all these practitioners. I know two who have been friends of mine since the beginning of highschool. They are just really nice people. Actually, my dad has been practicing it for 6 years now. Some of those visions I've heard come from him. And I just simply compared his stories with my friends. All this time, I've been kinda pessimistic until just recently, the start of this year. So I doubt they'll try to lie to me coz if they do, they would have said all these things long time ago.
Through those two friends of mine, I've met others who practice them. Believe it or not, a lot of them are actually top VCE scorers. One of those friend of my is also a prefect coz he is just really nice.

 

[robbie1]

It's called modern medicine. That's why Sophie is alive. Because of modern medicine. It's the 'miracle' of science.
If kids/babies die of cancer and that's god's plan, then so is her getting burnt by a car accident. And No, I wasn't saying God was driving the car, I'm saying he stood back and let it happen.

lol modern medicine....can modern medicine explain how (i mentioned this earlier) a friend of mine had a teacher with a brain tuma, she was close to death and science and modern medicine could not save her, the docs said she has a few weeks to live

well her father in italy prayed constantly and asked God to take him instead, because he loved his daughter so much and she was young and he was near the end anyway.

well, the teacher is alive and well today, teaching again. and her father passed away due to....yep you guessed it....a brain tuma.

whats your explanation for that miss?

and i have plenty more miracles to bring up so dont think im out of amunition

 

[P_Dilemma]

when did i say that God 'controls' all things?

that is not true...people have free will and control their own actions

everything belongs to God exept our free will, which he gave us, and that is why we when we face him in the next life we are judged - because we chose to kill somebody, we choose to reject God, we choose to rob a homeless person...etc

Hmm, so we have free will... then what is the role of God/s?

Our free will suggests that the existence of god/s is superfluous, that it is irrelevant whether it exists or not.

Does god exist then? If so, meh, because it's not like he's gonna do anything. And if not, meh, we already had that hunch with out free will and all that jazz...

 

[robbie1]

Hmm, so we have free will... then what is the role of God/s?

Our free will suggests that the existence of god/s is superfluous, that it is irrelevant whether it exists or not.

Does god exist then? If so, meh, because it's not like he's gonna do anything. And if not, meh, we already had that hunch with out free will and all that jazz...

lol is this a joke?

God created us...what do you mean what is his role....everything on this earth belongs to him exept for our free will.

God is there to help and guide us, and through prayer we can obtain almost anything from him...its just a shame people dont realise that these days.

anyway it looks like we are living in the end times, since what is written in the Book of Revelation has already begun....so sooner or later you will know that God does indeed exist

 

[P_Dilemma]

lol modern medicine....can modern medicine explain how (i mentioned this earlier) a friend of mine had a teacher with a brain tuma, she was close to death and science and modern medicine could not save her, the docs said she has a few weeks to live

well her father in italy prayed constantly and asked God to take him instead, because he loved his daughter so much and she was young and he was near the end anyway.

well, the teacher is alive and well today, teaching again. and her father passed away due to....yep you guessed it....a brain tuma.

whats your explanation for that miss?

and i have plenty more miracles to bring up so dont think im out of amunition

Coincidence, mathematical likelihood. Maybe the daughter had a robst immune system that worked only in the later stages if the cancer. Maybe the father laready had a tumor at the time of his prayer, and that it was on the borderline between killin him and not killing him.

If the same thing happened to every Tom, Dick and Harry with a daughter with a brain tumor, then i'd be more inlcined to believe it was the Hand of God.

Sorry. I'm not doubting the story, just it's strength of justification.

-P_D

 

[P_Dilemma]

lol is this a joke?

God created us...what do you mean what is his role....everything on this earth belongs to him exept for our free will.

God is there to help and guide us, and through prayer we can obtain almost anything from him...its just a shame people dont realise that these days.

anyway it looks like we are living in the end times, since what is written in the Book of Revelation has already begun....so sooner or later you will know that God does indeed exist

Ok, so he creates stuff. Then he sticks around listening to us moping abouth his existence.

Guiding us? What ever happened to free will? We're all on our own, aren't we? Free will must mean that God/s will not allow itself to influence out choice, right?

Book of Revelations... They said the same thing about Jesus and Y2K. I'll just keep an open mind about these things. I mean, i don't think i'm a bad guy, i try to be nice, neutral, what do i have to be afraid of?

-P_D

 

[AntiHyper]

Yeh, if the end comes and the 4 horsemen appeared to bring "conquest, war, famine & death". We can simply blast them to bits with our weapons or run them over.

Then you'd realise how out-dated the book of revelations is, we don't ride horses.

 

[KFunk]

lol modern medicine....can modern medicine explain how (i mentioned this earlier) a friend of mine had a teacher with a brain tuma, she was close to death and science and modern medicine could not save her, the docs said she has a few weeks to live

well her father in italy prayed constantly and asked God to take him instead, because he loved his daughter so much and she was young and he was near the end anyway.

well, the teacher is alive and well today, teaching again. and her father passed away due to....yep you guessed it....a brain tuma.

whats your explanation for that miss?

and i have plenty more miracles to bring up so dont think im out of amunition

I'll restate my previous response:

"Ok, let's suppose that these things are indeed miracles and not merely a matter of coincidence. What is it that convinces you (apart from sheer conviction) that these miracles are being performed by god, as conceived by you, as aposed to the god of another religion or an immortal magician, or even an alien programmer who is altering a matrix-like construct that we are a part of?"

 

[katie_tully]

umm you do realise that sophie was hurt directly as a result of the actions a man, or 2 men.....are you saying God was driving the car (s)?

do you also realise that her family are devoted Catholics and prayed to Blessed Mary Mackillop for her intercession to save sophie....and suprise suprise she is still here today.

AIDS is an unfortunate occurence, but if people followed the teachings of the Church they wouldnt contract it....first of all abstinence, no sex until marriage, and only having sexual relations with one person (your husband/wife)

Ah, because the only people that get AIDS are promiscuous wenches and drug dealers?
Should we forget about the babies born with AIDS, those who have not sinned? Or what about rape victims? Or people who get needle stick injuries at the beach, or in an armed hold up?

You're a tool.

 

[katie_tully]

lol modern medicine....can modern medicine explain how (i mentioned this earlier) a friend of mine had a teacher with a brain tuma, she was close to death and science and modern medicine could not save her, the docs said she has a few weeks to live

well her father in italy prayed constantly and asked God to take him instead, because he loved his daughter so much and she was young and he was near the end anyway.

well, the teacher is alive and well today, teaching again. and her father passed away due to....yep you guessed it....a brain tuma.

whats your explanation for that miss?

and i have plenty more miracles to bring up so dont think im out of amunition

Last time I checked God wasn't a genie that granted wishes. Also there have been many accounts of people with terminal cancer surviving longer than the affirmentioned period. There are even accounts of the cancer disappearing eventually. All can be explained by medicine, but one would need to have a basic understanding of the nature of cancer ..

Ooer, Daddy got a brain tumour. Gee, the work of a benevolent god indeed.

 

[robbie1]

Yeh, if the end comes and the 4 horsemen appeared to bring "conquest, war, famine & death". We can simply blast them to bits with our weapons or run them over.

Then you'd realise how out-dated the book of revelations is, we don't ride horses.

as i said, it has already begun, are you not aware that the microchipping has commenced?

also, as it says in the Gospels, "when the Son of Man returns, will there still be faith on earth"?....implying that many will not have faith when Jesus returns, which, just by reading this thread, one can see is true

 

[robbie1]

I'll restate my previous response:

"Ok, let's suppose that these things are indeed miracles and not merely a matter of coincidence. What is it that convinces you (apart from sheer conviction) that these miracles are being performed by god, as conceived by you, as aposed to the god of another religion or an immortal magician, or even an alien programmer who is altering a matrix-like construct that we are a part of?"

ah my non-believing friend, you will see soon enough, you arent gonna live forever....where do you think you are going when you pass away?

 

[robbie1]

katie, i have nothing to say to someone like you, who by their own admission, is "very anti-religious."

i will discuss things with the people here who have at least a little bit of an open mind and a fraction of respect for my beliefs at least.

you will have a lot to answer for one day....thats all ill say.

 

[katie_tully]

lol. I was born and raised a Catholic. That is the very reason why I am anti religious. Unlike yourself I had the brains to question the bullshit. I can replace your miracles with logic. That my friend, is why you will not debate with me.

Everything you say I can dispel with logic and fact.

where do you think you are going when you pass away?

Well actually it's quite a simple process, much like what happens to say...a lettuce when you throw it in the compost. It decomposes.

 

[The Logical One]

lol. I was born and raised a Catholic. That is the very reason why I am anti religious. Unlike yourself I had the brains to question the bullshit. I can replace your miracles with logic. That my friend, is why you will not debate with me.

Everything you say I can dispel with logic and fact.



Well actually it's quite a simple process, much like what happens to say...a lettuce when you throw it in the compost. It decomposes.

Lol, it's funny how people like you think they know what life is and what comes next. You see you're only non-religious because of the first stage of discovery. The first stage of discovery is discovering our origins, and you don't know this yet, but the best theory we have on the beginning of the universe is wrong.
When you can see that it was inevitable for our universe to be created then you'll have the real questions to deal with.

You wouldn't be an atheist if there was no big bang theory (which is extremely weak). I'm not saying any religion is automatically correct, but there is a God and what it does, and why it does it is beyond me. I guess irrational guesses is something that a heretic might do to protect their beliefs. I have to admit though, to me miracles isn't what makes me believe in God, it's the logic and the understanding and feeling associated. If religion only makes you feel guilty then you've made some wrong choices.

I look at it this way. It's possible for somebody to roll 100 6's in a row on a dice. It's just probably never happened before, but it's very very possible.