Does God exist? (14 Viewers)

[*TRUE*]

My post was in response to emy saying that good deeds do not get you into heaven. By her own admission, good deeds count for nothing. So I wanted to know, if this is so, is it safe to assume that you will go to heaven as a Christian without doing any good deeds.

If not, then does this not imply a fault in the idea that good deeds are not necessary to ascend into heaven.

Oh i see.
Well i think i disagree with Emy here then.
Faith needs to be acted upon in order to have any sort of effect in my opinion.
I cried and cried (dont tease xo) when i heard a song by Keith Green (again , dont tease , lol) about the sheep and the goats.
These were those who cared for others (the sheep), and those (the goats) who felt that it was not their ministry , that they were not 'lead' (lol - stupid Christianese) that they didnt recognise those weird people who came around wanting help to be anyone Jesus loved... and you know , the goats and the sheep both believed in God , both warmed church chairs..
like the end of the song , the only difference between the sheep and the goats was what they did and did not DO.
If someone is on their deathbed and commits to Christ , maybe they did not have time to put their faith into any more practice than simply accepting Jesus as son of God.

 

[CharlieB]

*facepalm*

 

[Riet]

if hitler professed belief in Jesus just before he killed himself then he went to heaven

all our good deeds are filthy rags because we sin and only telepathically telling god you believe in him & that his human sacrifice can wash away all your responsibility for your sins can get you into heaven

that is all

Since this is the case how can anyone condemn anything because it's immoral in god's opinion? I can sledge hammer all the foetuses I like since I already have original sin. As long as I believe in jesus it's a'okay.

 

[Snaykew]

I was told by Christians that if Hitler repented just before he died, he would get into Heaven. Repent as in truly repent, not just say it. I was like, fuck this religion. Then he said that I would goto hell even if my life was devoted towards helping others because to get into heaven you only need to believe that Jesus died for our sins or whatnot. It doesn't actually require anything of you other than believing. You don't need to be a good person.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Since this is the case how can anyone condemn anything because it's immoral in god's opinion? I can sledge hammer all the foetuses I like since I already have original sin. As long as I believe in jesus it's a'okay.

because the bible says,

 

[Riet]

I was told by Christians that if Hitler repented just before he died, he would get into Heaven. Repent as in truly repent, not just say it. I was like, fuck this religion. Then he said that I would goto hell even if my life was devoted towards helping others because to get into heaven you only need to believe that Jesus died for our sins or whatnot. It doesn't actually require anything of you other than believing. You don't need to be a good person.

No shit, which is why the stupidity of anyone being against something because of their christian beliefs is the most fucktarded double standard ever. Either you believe that christ is the path and that god will judge us or you don't. You can't believe that christ is the path and then make a moral judgement of something on god's behalf.

It's all in John 14 you bitches.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

 

[Snaykew]

Women better hope that "he" is really referring to all humans.

 

[*TRUE*]

Actually, I think that's the reason for most of the discrimination.

I agree.

 

[*TRUE*]

lolololo

Sam you're so mean....

 

[CharlieB]

I was told by Christians that if Hitler repented just before he died, he would get into Heaven. Repent as in truly repent, not just say it. I was like, fuck this religion. Then he said that I would goto hell even if my life was devoted towards helping others because to get into heaven you only need to believe that Jesus died for our sins or whatnot. It doesn't actually require anything of you other than believing. You don't need to be a good person.

you have been grossly misinformed.

 

[Stevo.]

This is why we can't have nice things in religion.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

you have been grossly misinformed.

it was the fundies' idea, not ours

 

[*TRUE*]

did you miss this post, or do you have something to hide diana?

Im sorry i did read it but forgot to reply.... i have no idea , sorry , i dont know everyone at my church (es)
Sorry Sam

 

[Snaykew]

you have been grossly misinformed.

Are you saying scripture during high school was a lie?! D:

 

[BradCube]

This strikes me as a strange kind of statement to make. I think it is because the concept of 'worth' itself is morally charged. The acts of an atheist are worthwhile from within their respective moral framework (whether they view it as objectively valid or not). I'm not sure that it matters much if their acts fail to be worthwhile with respect to a religious moral framework given that their position requires that they deny the existence of any god-dependent morality (they are atheists, after all).

Once it is seen that 'worth' is value-dependent I think your claim looses much of its force.

Yeah, your probably correct at first glance, so I suppose I should restate what I said. Rather instead of simply saying "under the atheist view these acts are worthless" I should say that "under the view of atheism, these acts hold no objective worth". Now while this may seem like an obvious thing to say, I find myself repeating it because the opinion that seems to come across from atheists is that their subjective view should be treated as objective and is of equal worth. I cannot see this however. A belief in subjective morality seems a significant downgrade from a real objective morality. In my books, subjective morality when compared with idea of objective morality may as well be worthless. Certainly under subjective morality, "worth" carries no truth value since no truth actually exists.

Probably not? Arguments for the evolutionary development of morality generally apply to creatures with a more sophisticated social structure (though if anyone knows otherwise please correct me on this).

It was at this point in the argument that I realized I had no clue what I was really debating about anymore (not to mention the fact that I am no educated enough on the topic). Thus, I put a stop to the downward spiral in that line of thought

I would certainly be interested in seeing studies done on this and many other issues regarding morality. Problem is that to carry out thorough testing, immoral acts would have to be performed in the name of science - pretty dangerous territory.

 

[BradCube]

Oh ok, so you don't make judgements? You wouldn't tell me that for instance... to have an abortion is wrong?

I honestly don't think a debate on abortion need even enter the biblical territory.

 

[Snaykew]

I honestly don't think a debate on abortion need even enter the biblical territory.

It matters not. God wills it.

 

[BradCube]

Exactly. Therefore religions fundamentally encourage discrimination, if not the "active" type, because all their members are feeling "wow, that religion is totally incorrect."

Eh, I don't think I would agree with that. Besides the fact that you could really only issue that argument against monotheistic religions, I don't really find that occurring in my own church or relationships I have with other Christians. Certainly in my case, I am super open to meeting people from other religions and understanding their views. It's a good opportunity to see how my own beliefs stack up and further me on my path to finding some truth and rationality in this life.

What religious people need to realise is that atheists feel exactly that, but also for your religion as well.

I've seen you say this kind of things a few times now Kwayera. "All Christians are atheists, just to one less God then me."

Puts a smile on my face . Realistically, I think it's more a play of words then anything else. A person can not be labeled as an atheist because they only believe in one God, because the definition of atheism is that they believe in no God.

 

[Snaykew]

I've seen you say this kind of things a few times now Kwayera. "All Christians are atheists, just to one less God then me."

Does that mean Athiests have two gods?

 

[BradCube]

Jared, while I appreciate the literary weight of your source, it ought to be said that they are indeed speaking from a religious point of view, not a scientific one (which is that it generally is far more likely that existence, as we'd define it, is not a product of divinity: that indeed can be described with mathematical precision, and I'd also like to direct you to the principle of Ockham's Razor.

I don't think Ockham's Razor really applies in dismissing the whole possibility of God. Especially when all other explanations that fit Gods place are pseudo-science.

Even religious scientists generally accept that the universe itself is more likely than not to have no need for a divine creator).

?? Which "religious" scientists believe this? When did they become a majority?