Flag Burners (2 Viewers)

[ur_inner_child]

A reminder that although you may not need to be politically correct in this forum, racism is not tolerated in this thread.

Inform and englighten.

Report the post, do not retaliate.

I've been lenient, but quite frankly, I shouldn't need to repeat myself.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Its hosting the world cup? its participated in nearly all of the cricket world cups. apartheid was an issue, they had rebel teams playing instead. It was more political problem than racism.
Also being most advanced country in the african continent has little meaning, considering u have countries like zimbabwe, ethipia, sudan in the same continent. Once again u missed the whole point.

I didnt say anyone was to blame or i didnt imply blame to anyone. And i did accept that other countries have racism as well - i would say all countries have racism as an issue. Again u missed the point. I said such an event only worsened the image of Australia.

First clean up the mess in Israel and america before talking about othere ppl mess.


what is my background?
they way you have been posting in these forums you will do anything to say that Israel and America are good even if they murdered millions of people for name 'freedom' and 'democracy' - seems u have been brainwashed by jewish - american propaganda.

In every post - u must attack arab muslims, and u must also praise jews and americans. Where as in my posts - go look through all my posts just click on my name and click on HotShot's post u will see that i have basically critcised just about everything in these forums including muslims, hindus, athiests, arabs, jews, indians, aussies, etc it goes on.

Are you trying to tell us Apartheid was merely political problems more than racism? That will be a slap on the face of all black people of South Africa. I did not miss the whole point. You said the reason other countries did not play South Africa or travel to South Africa was because it is a 3rd world country. I merely pointed out that that was not the case, it was racism, the policy of Apartheid resulting in the suspension of South Africa from most international events and associations. That is the real reason they did not participate in ICC cricket World Cup between 1970-1990, or never participated in the Olympic from 1960-1991. Since the aprtheid has been removed, South Africa's image improved and yes they are hosting World Cup Football soon. Similarly, If Australia was so racist to international community as you wanted to portray there will surely be an issue out of it, and there will be less and less people coming to australia either as a tourist or to study.

Yes any race riot worsened the image, not only race riot but also communalism and religious riot such as Hindu-Muslim riot in Gujarat in India in 2002 or Paris riot by North African /muslims last year or Los Angeles riot of 1992 made each country's image bad. You said how this riot made other people see australia as the most racist country which is false.

I was just saying how the world sees australia as one the most rascist countries in the world in other thread. its stupid things like this that ruin australia's image.

Do tell us which country or people think Australia is racist? Were there any poll conducted to conclude australia is seen as the most racist countries in the world or is it based on "I am the victim point of view"? I do not think race riot are good, on the other hand each side has to look into the cause to prevent future events.

I only attack muslims and arabs when someone from your clique or yourself constantly pull out palestinian-israel issue in every thread, including north korean nuclear issue, God exist or not issue, racial attack in maroubra thread etc. I am merely standing up for what I believe in. You virulently defend islam or arab whenever they are critisized yet you emphatically deny that you are muslim, swear and use every bad language you are taught at home to swear on to jews etc and here accuse me of attacking muslim and arab in all my post!.

Your background was not a reply to you, and where did Israel and America murdered millions? I listen the same news as you, CNN, BBC, ABC, SBS and FOX . I'd rather be brainwashed by jewish or american propaganda, listen to Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on the radio instead of being brainwashed to blow myself up for stupid reason which I don't even want to mention anymore!

 

[54247]

Here we go again with ARYANBEAUTY taking swipes at everything but himself. YOUR JUST PERFECT.

Its just a shame that you have so many people on these posts (which by the way you all portray as or somehow link to "a muslim terrorist" to legitamise your swipe) which are against your mentality have you not thought that maybe YOUR WRONG!!!!

That aside
we've said so much on how stupid that flagburner was and that he did show remorse when he returned the flag to the RSL. What punishment should he be given taking the following into account.
-statistically incarceration doesnt have as much affect compared with rehabilitation?
-Our court systems have the pincipal of rehabilitation rather than simply punishing someone embeded during the decision making processes? and
-We dont want this to happen again or creat friction in a community the way the SKAF case caused due to the propostrous sentence of 55 YEARS (which was unheard of in Australia for a non murder case)
My personal belief is that if the RSL have stated that the guy felt remorse and that they felt he learnt his lesson then it should be enough

any other thoughts??

 

[Captain Gh3y]

ps. im kind of getting fed up with news/newspapers describing people's ethnic background in reports anyway, unless it's to catch criminals.

Just read the Fairfax papers, you'll never have to worry about it, unless they're white.

http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/comments/no_appearance_gang_still_at_large/
http://timblair.net/ee/index.php/weblog/no_purpose_served/

 

[*hopeful*]

I only attack muslims and arabs when someone from your clique or yourself constantly pull out palestinian-israel issue in every thread, including north korean nuclear issue, God exist or not issue, racial attack in maroubra thread etc. I am merely standing up for what I believe in. You virulently defend islam or arab whenever they are critisized yet you emphatically deny that you are muslim, swear and use every bad language you are taught at home to swear on to jews etc and here accuse me of attacking muslim and arab in all my post!.

well you yourself have said that you never said your jewish or american yet u defend them

i personally dont care who u attack as long as u keep ur facts straight and relevant!

and i dont see no-one "using bad language they are taught at home to swear on to jews" what the hell ? is your iq 0.001 or something

 

[HotShot]

Are you trying to tell us Apartheid was merely political problems more than racism? That will be a slap on the face of all black people of South Africa. I did not miss the whole point. You said the reason other countries did not play South Africa or travel to South Africa was because it is a 3rd world country. I merely pointed out that that was not the case, it was racism, the policy of Apartheid resulting in the suspension of South Africa from most international events and associations. That is the real reason they did not participate in ICC cricket World Cup between 1970-1990, or never participated in the Olympic from 1960-1991. Since the aprtheid has been removed, South Africa's image improved and yes they are hosting World Cup Football soon. Similarly, If Australia was so racist to international community as you wanted to portray there will surely be an issue out of it, and there will be less and less people coming to australia either as a tourist or to study.

I didnt say the aparthied was merely political - maybe i didnt express myself clearly there i am sorry. But the reason for the being banned, not participating the recent expulsion of white zimbabwean players etc, is due to political reasons.
THey had rebel teams led by like Kepler Wessels. ONCE AGAIN I NEVER SAID THE AUSTRALIAN COMMUNITY WAS RACIST TOWARDS TOURISTS, I SAID I WILL MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT PEOPLE SEE FROM OVERSEAS AS AUSTRALIA BEING TO SOME EXTENT A RACIST COUNTRY AND THAT RIOTS HAVE HELPED TO DEVELOP OR MAINTAIN THIS IMAGE.

Yes any race riot worsened the image, not only race riot but also communalism and religious riot such as Hindu-Muslim riot in Gujarat in India in 2002 or Paris riot by North African /muslims last year or Los Angeles riot of 1992 made each country's image bad. You said how this riot made other people see australia as the most racist country which is false.

I didnt say 'most rascist country' i just said it had negative impact on our country.

Do tell us which country or people think Australia is racist? Were there any poll conducted to conclude australia is seen as the most racist countries in the world or is it based on "I am the victim point of view"? I do not think race riot are good, on the other hand each side has to look into the cause to prevent future events.

A lot of countries see Australia as being racist. How significant would a poll be? there was recent study of 24000 birtish people from various backgrounds - is that truly representative sample lol. anyway u only need to read the articles in the newspaper in international papers a lot of them are on racism and australia backed by brillaint achievements in sport.

I only attack muslims and arabs when someone from your clique or yourself constantly pull out palestinian-israel issue in every thread, including north korean nuclear issue, God exist or not issue, racial attack in maroubra thread etc. I am merely standing up for what I believe in. You virulently defend islam or arab whenever they are critisized yet you emphatically deny that you are muslim, swear and use every bad language you are taught at home to swear on to jews etc and here accuse me of attacking muslim and arab in all my post!.

NO u attack muslims or arabs and in almost every situation including in the most irrelevant situations. You do not admit mistakes. Yeah I might bring jews - but u could just say to me its irrevelant and go fuck off - i wouldnt be able to say anything apart from fuck you.

I dont defend i only criticse where as you defend no matter what israel and america. Have u ever defended muslims or arabs? I have criticised america on some occasions israel though and also iraq, iran just about everything.

Well if u keep calling muslims when i am not - what do you want me to do apart from deny? Say i am a jew? to keep u happy fuck off. I am not accusing u, the fact is that you do attack arabs and muslims in all ur posts.

Your background was not a reply to you, and where did Israel and America murdered millions? I listen the same news as you, CNN, BBC, ABC, SBS and FOX . I'd rather be brainwashed by jewish or american propaganda, listen to Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on the radio instead of being brainwashed to blow myself up for stupid reason which I don't even want to mention anymore!

well u keep calling me muslim? so tell me if you know so much about me whats my background?
I rather not be brainwashed at all. SO i assume now thatu have been brainwashed by jewish american propaganda. where or when?

 

[Aryanbeauty]

I didnt say the aparthied was merely political - maybe i didnt express myself clearly there i am sorry. But the reason for the being banned, not participating the recent expulsion of white zimbabwean players etc, is due to political reasons.

Zimbabwe is not South Africa. And the reason South Africa was banned was because of racism not political problems with some other countries.

ONCE AGAIN I NEVER SAID THE AUSTRALIAN COMMUNITY WAS RACIST TOWARDS TOURISTS, I SAID I WILL MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT PEOPLE SEE FROM OVERSEAS AS AUSTRALIA BEING TO SOME EXTENT A RACIST COUNTRY AND THAT RIOTS HAVE HELPED TO DEVELOP OR MAINTAIN THIS IMAGE.


I didnt say 'most rascist country' i just said it had negative impact on our country.

This contradict whit your earlier post

I was just saying how the world sees australia as one the most rascist countries in the world in other thread. its stupid things like this that ruin australia's image.

Now only to some extent? next mildly racist?

A lot of countries see Australia as being racist. How significant would a poll be? there was recent study of 24000 birtish people from various backgrounds - is that truly representative sample lol. anyway u only need to read the articles in the newspaper in international papers a lot of them are on racism and australia backed by brillaint achievements in sport.

Newspapers such as?

NO u attack muslims or arabs and in almost every situation including in the most irrelevant situations. You do not admit mistakes. Yeah I might bring jews - but u could just say to me its irrevelant and go fuck off - i wouldnt be able to say anything apart from fuck you.

I am here to argue and make my points for what I believe in. I will attack arabs and muslims if needed be to make my points clear.No, I do not bring out jews, Israel,arab issue unless you and your clique started on it. I do not admit mistakes unless I made mistakes. I am right as always. You can use those swearing language to your family. I will not be brought down to your level of filthy swearing language which you spewed out everytime you have nothing else to say yet want to continue arguments from time to time.

I dont defend i only criticse where as you defend no matter what israel and america. Have u ever defended muslims or arabs? I have criticised america on some occasions israel though and also iraq, iran just about everything.

There are plenty of people, who defend verything islam or arab, including terrorist such as osama bin laden and suicide bombers and justify them. You clearly do not need my help in that.

Well if u keep calling muslims when i am not - what do you want me to do apart from deny? Say i am a jew? to keep u happy fuck off. I am not accusing u, the fact is that you do attack arabs and muslims in all ur posts.

Ashamed of your religion maybe! I only attack once you and one of your fellow people started it, and as always you lose.

well u keep calling me muslim? so tell me if you know so much about me whats my background?

Do tell us it will be interesting to hear how DIMIA repeatedly reject your asylum application ? maybe!

I rather not be brainwashed at all. SO i assume now thatu have been brainwashed by jewish american propaganda. where or when?

I never said you or I are brainwashed, im merely saying i'd rather be instead of being brainwshed to believe that Osama is a saint and Kim Jong Il is a God!

I hope you never get into a position of influence. Go away.

Don't worry I'm very kind, sweet, congenial and modest. I never hurt anyone's feelings

 

[ur_inner_child]

Enough.

The news about the flag burner and his apology; what are you thoughts?

Flag burning, is it a crime?

If yes, what do you suggest as punishment?

Is it better to punish or educate/enlighten the individual in this circumstance?

How would one determine the crime, particularly if its about context (which some have suggested)?

Please, this topic is rather straight forward.

 

[HotShot]

Zimbabwe is not South Africa. And the reason South Africa was banned was because of racism not political problems with some other countries.

But zimbabwe did have racial problems as well. tell me how does racism stop a country from participating in a world event with no political influence?

I am here to argue and make my points for what I believe in. I will attack arabs and muslims if needed be to make my points clear.No, I do not bring out jews, Israel,arab issue unless you and your clique started on it.

Not not needed be, you always attack arabs and muslims it evident rite now in ur previous post.

I do not admit mistakes unless I made mistakes. I am right as always. You can use those swearing language to your family. I will not be brought down to your level of filthy swearing language which you spewed out everytime you have nothing else to say yet want to continue arguments from time to time.

I have yet to see a person who knows all the time when he/she has committed mistake. Sometimes when someone else tells u committed a mistake, its common sense and smart to accept the fact that you did rather than denying it.

Ashamed of your religion maybe! I only attack once you and one of your fellow people started it, and as always you lose.

i dont know whats there to lose? or even win? is that all that matters to you - no matter what u have to win, even if ur wrong.

i am not ashamed of my religion.

Do tell us it will be interesting to hear how DIMIA repeatedly reject your asylum application ? maybe!

if you know so much about me and my background tell me? tell me about my background? did u do as i said did u look up my history of posts?

I never said you or I are brainwashed, im merely saying i'd rather be instead of being brainwshed to believe that Osama is a saint and Kim Jong Il is a God!

I had rather not be brainswashed at all.

Don't worry I'm very kind, sweet, congenial and modest. I never hurt anyone's feelings

lol - denial. gee u must be really honest person to make such a claim.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

As to the Flag Burning issue, remember that the RSL offered for the kid to march on Anzac day and be a flag bearer(?)..well I reckon he should definitely march, but along with other kids his age so that no one can single him out. Has this already been suggested? Any thouhgts?

I'm actually starting to be more in favour of another idea I've heard. Rather than give the kid a flag to carry, which really is the kind of thing that should be a reward, get him to push the wheelchair of one of the vets. It will still be an honour for him, and a teaching experience, but it should also prevent any morons from chucking stuff at him or attacking him, which, incidently, goes against everything those people think they stand for.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

I believe it was suggested by a member of the general public but I can't imagine the veterans that suggested he carry a flag would have a problem with the idea.

 

[agent_pollifax]

I'm afraid it's just you.

There is nothing wrong with flag burning beyond the damage of property. Yes, the person must pay the club for the flag, but he or she should have a right to protest against what the flag stands for - that is, nothing wrong would be done had the flag belonged to the flag burner.

Were you born a stupid retard or did you have to work on it?

First of all, this little cunt has broken the law by:
-Trespassing
-Theft

Second of all, the little shit burnt the flag, undoubtedly after breaking flag protocol.

By burning the flag, you are not protesting the war or bad politics, you are burning what represents the nation - you are showing your hatred for Australia

So, what happens to the traitorous little turd?
-Did he buy the RSL a new flag?
-Did he serve time or repay society for his crimes?
-Did he get a good thrashing from the government?

There was a time when you could be exiled for shit like this. Then again, there was a time when people had pride in their nation and symbols meant something.

"nothing wrong would be done had the flag belonged to the flag burner"

If I had a dollar for every time I heard something that stupid, I'd have one dollar. That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

The flag represents this fantastic nation - the best country in the world! It doesn't represent the war, the government, the soldiers, the RSL. It represents the people and all the things that go together to make this nation great.

If he has a beef with the government, there are plenty of things he can do to make it right. The easiest being that he could have written a letter to his local member of parliament.

Why did he have to be such a douche about it.

Remember that the flag represents Australia. Treat it with the respect it deserves.

 

[*hopeful*]

Were you born a stupid retard or did you have to work on it?

First of all, this little cunt has broken the law by:
-Trespassing
-Theft

Second of all, the little shit burnt the flag, undoubtedly after breaking flag protocol.

By burning the flag, you are not protesting the war or bad politics, you are burning what represents the nation - you are showing your hatred for Australia

So, what happens to the traitorous little turd?
-Did he buy the RSL a new flag?
-Did he serve time or repay society for his crimes?
-Did he get a good thrashing from the government?

There was a time when you could be exiled for shit like this. Then again, there was a time when people had pride in their nation and symbols meant something.

"nothing wrong would be done had the flag belonged to the flag burner"

If I had a dollar for every time I heard something that stupid, I'd have one dollar. That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

The flag represents this fantastic nation - the best country in the world! It doesn't represent the war, the government, the soldiers, the RSL. It represents the people and all the things that go together to make this nation great.

If he has a beef with the government, there are plenty of things he can do to make it right. The easiest being that he could have written a letter to his local member of parliament.

Why did he have to be such a douche about it.

Remember that the flag represents Australia. Treat it with the respect it deserves.

i agree with alot of your points but who says the flag represents australia and the people etc etc ? is this something we should be taught at school or automatically realise ?

 

[Aryanbeauty]

I agree with agent pollifax on some points too, but it really depends how u see the flag doesn't it? i mean, yes, im sure in the right sense, we can see that the flag represents us. but the background of the flag-imperialism, destruction, draining, atrocities against aborigines....are all those things representative of the Aussie people in this day and age? i know the kid wasnt thinking of all this when he burnt the flag however...

He was thinking how he could hurt the feelings of australian people in the most disgraceful ways which he apparently regretted later.

 

[54247]

"He was thinking how he could hurt the feelings of australian people in the most disgraceful ways which he apparently regretted later."

This arguement goes both ways obviously depending on how much value each individual places on the flag and what it represents. For instance some may say "what an idiot" and thats about it where as some may say"How dare he, he's attacking what we stand for our values etc etc" At the end of the day it all comes down to as AGENTPROVOATER SAID "it really depends how u see the flag doesn't it"

 

[*hopeful*]

Why should you be taught that a national flag is the most important image a nation can hold?

exactly

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Most countries' flags have definite meanings such as in the US flag;White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief [the broad band above the stripes] signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice.(wiki). Most students in the US knew what the flag stands for and what it represents. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. If those basic knowlege are not taught in australian schools I am not surprised that many australian are confused about their national identity such as many australian citizens, born here but not consider themselves australian or a part of it, or despise it! I seriously support an overhaul of australian school system and revision of curriculum. I'm wondering whether they taught civics subject at all in school?

 

[*hopeful*]

they've brought in civics for yr 10's fairly recently ? by recently i mean anytime after i was in yr 10

 

[_dhj_]

Were you born a stupid retard or did you have to work on it?

If I had a dollar for every time I heard something that stupid, I'd have one dollar. That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

You will need to grow up before you're fit to enter the legal profession. Insulting your betters will get you nowhere.

The flag represents this fantastic nation - the best country in the world! It doesn't represent the war, the government, the soldiers, the RSL. It represents the people and all the things that go together to make this nation great.

By burning the flag, you are not protesting the war or bad politics, you are burning what represents the nation - you are showing your hatred for Australia

The flag represents different things to different people. I am prepared to accept that ordinarily, the flag represent the nation of Australia, although not necessarily the values of the nation. The nation as an entity is not as significant to many compared to other units such as family, religion or a universal notion (such as peace or love). There are exceptions to that in certain situations. A particular act of burning the flag is only visible to a limited number of people unless it is broadcasted through some medium. When a protest is made out to those people, they are generally aware of the intention of the specific protest - whether against racism, war, government or monarchism (personally I'm a monarchist btw). The fact that they may interpret the burning as an insult to the nation appears far fetched and will be outweighed by the message of the protest. After all, it is merely an insult and not an actual infliction of harm.

Even if it is accepted that the gist of flag burning is insult to the nation, I don't feel that it is sufficient to deem the action a crime. A blanket ban on insulting the nation is a coercion of the population into loving the nation. If the nation is so great and fantastic to all, there would not be many occurrences of flag burning within that nation, given the constant that flag burning is allowed as an freedom of expression in the first place.

There was a time when you could be exiled for shit like this. Then again, there was a time when people had pride in their nation and symbols meant something.

"Was" is the operative word in this. I understand your nostalgic conservative sentiments. Times and priorities unfortunately change, and in present day there is a greater emphasis on multiculturalism, internationalism and gender equality (for example) than patriotic symbols. Again you may disagree with or despise such concepts and I feel sorry for the internal hurt it may be causing in you.

Why did he have to be such a douche about it.

This is a place of political discussion. If you cannot deal with insult to your personal and political beliefs I suggest that you stay away.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

There are more thais, more chinese, more indians, more vietnamese australian in this country than lebanese or middle eastern people, none of them question their australianness. None of them stir up race riot or burn flag. I think some people have to learn a lesson from here. How to live in harmony and how to live as minority. If every neighbourhood complained about a particular ethnicity or group it means there is something seriously wrong with them. If you already gone through primary school and still don't knwo what your flag represent or signifies, i'd say the education system has failed you or you already failed. Julie Bishop's proposal is the way to go before more students graduate HSC lacking basic civics knowlege.