HARRY POTTER & THE HBP - what did you think? (SPOILERS!) (3 Viewers)

[ishq]

A new Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher next year.
Curse continues.

 

[White Rabbit]

I've actually changed my mind, i quite liked it in general. At first i was so pissed off about Snape but now that i think about it, it was a good move by rowling because nobody was expecting it. its pretty cliche that dumbledore died, but it was pretty damn sad that snape did it. i think the whole dumbledore not being so powerful and you know, dying and all, makes room for Harry to really step up and boy did he mature doing this book. yep. thats all i've got to say. oh and i agree that the ships were pretty fan fictiony, especially harrys sudden 'oh i love ginny'. it was kind of annoying.

I didn't know what upset me more - Dumbledore dieing or the fact Snape did it! Snape did not apper a cold, calculating Death Eater when he did it however - it's a lesser of two evils. And if you ask me, SlideRule has it right. Snape didn't defect to the dark side - he's working in his own interests.

He killed Dumbledore to protect Draco, that much was clear. The unbreakable vow he made to Narcissa, the apparent friendship they share, his protection of Draco throughout the book and during the battle, ensuring Draco was safe before himself. If Albus ad Seveus did not set the whole thing up, then Severus simply choose what he saw as a lesser of two evils - Dumbledore or Draco?

That said, this whole propechy was played down to Dumbeldore, it made me think - what if it alot more serious that we were led to believe? What if Draco is the 'One' they've spoken of? We know Lucius is apparently loyal, but from Spinners End, we saw Narcissa is prepared to defy Voldermort to protect her son (and husband I'd imagine), and it was also brought to our attention that Draco, like Harry, is much younger than his peers, perhaps he too was born in late July? Perhaps both Dumbeldore and Snape are aware of this and realised the need to sacrifice Dumbledore to save Draco and thus the wizarding world?

Perhaps there was more to this argument between Severus and Albus than Hagrid heard? While I liked Albus in this book more than ever (which I imagine was JKRs aim) I still got the distinct impression he was using both Severus and Harry from the begining of the book. Or perhaps this whole argument was staged within hearing distance of Hagrid? To lay the foundations for the rift between them? Perhaps killing Dumbledore saved not only Draco, but Severus as well? As may people have pointed out, Severus had plently of opportunity to kill Severus, but instead simply deflected curses, well aware the Order will decend upon them soon enough, not leaving time for games. He stoped the torture of Harry, saying he was for the Dark Lord, yet made no attempt to take him to LV.

I think Severus is either explicitly on the side of good - that Dumbledores' death was part of a greater plan - that there is more to this 'Half Blood Prince' than simply being the son of a halfblood witch - and that Harry will eventually kil him before realising what Severus has done. Or, more likely - Severus is loyal to nobody. He plays both sides, gaining what he can to protect those he cares about - Narcissa and Draco. It also has me questioning - are Severus and Narcissa more than just friends? Did the Blacks disaprove of such a relationship with a mere half blood? Was Narcissa's marriage to Lucius a sham to hide her relationship with Severus? Is Severus really (crossing into Severitus territory) Draco's natural father?

I think Albus begging Severus, Please...Seveus.. was not Albus begging for his life. He's not afraid of death. Yes, he may have been heartbroken that his belief in Snape's loyalty had been shattered, but I'm more inclined to believe it was to save Draco, or perhaps Harry. Severus is too much of an anomoly to be decifed just yet - and he's too crafty and cunning - to much of a Slytherin in other words - to blindly allign himself to on side. He'll do whatever it takes to keep Draco and Narcissa alive.

I think his background may come into play next book too! I'm upset it's going to be another 2 years, however.

 

[White Rabbit]

I asumed RAB was Regulus actually. He did want to leave Voldermort, perhaps he isn't as stupid as Sirius had us believe? Perhaps he truly turned against LV and did indeed fake his death? And now is seeking retribution?

There is of course, all those theories on Regulus actually killing Severus and resuming his identity, which could also explain Narcissia and his closesness? Perhaps she knows? That is really far fetched however...

 

[Orange Juice]

fuck, whiterabbit i think you over analysed the book just a tad too much...
relax and enjoy the book...
and about snape being dracos father... holy crap that would surprise me...

 

[ishq]

I asumed RAB was Regulus actually. He did want to leave Voldermort, perhaps he isn't as stupid as Sirius had us believe? Perhaps he truly turned against LV and did indeed fake his death? And now is seeking retribution?

There is of course, all those theories on Regulus actually killing Severus and resuming his identity, which could also explain Narcissia and his closesness? Perhaps she knows? That is really far fetched however...

From what has been told of Regulus in Order of the Pheonix, I doubt he is that intelligent. He was described as a more blundering fool sort of character.
Snape is Snape. His memories, hatred etc. prove that.
I do agree with you when you say that there is more to Snape being the HBP than is being told. It has to be Snape who does a lot of the exposition in the next book now that Dumbledore has gone. What was the incident that made him trustworthy in Dubledore's eyes?
Or, maybe, Dumbledore knew all along that Snape was working for his own interest...that he was a double spy...and yet...baaahhh, i'm going into a mental HP mode.

Will Dumbledore's portrait be hung up????????????????????

 

[Orange Juice]

twas raiks... and i was hoping it was fake but holy crap... it wasnt

 

[waddle_828]

i didn't suspect her either, but then again she couldn't help being under the imperius curse...

 

[steph@nie]

im surprised draco was smart enough to figure out that he could use the two cupboards to get in and out of the school.

 

[Sarah168]

just finished it but got the spoiler from waf's msn nick last night. Sigh. He lied at least to tell me it wasnt true but i read the entire book today with the ringing words in my head

Spoiler

SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE

on the other hand, i found the HBP thing quite unconvincing. I guessed it was Snape from the second it was a potions book and everything else confirmed it.

This book leaves me with the same incomplete feeling that OOTP left me with

this book irritates me also but perhaps its because im averse to changes. the whole relationships thing popping up all over the place irked me. I can stand insinuations but outright...it was such a distraction from the story, i felt. i was upset when sirius died because i liked him but im even more sad that

Spoiler

dumbledore

dies because i respected him so much, almost like a real person. My, how lame do I sound right now. I realise its just a book but i always feel these things in the immediate hours after reading it.
I also felt like the first 3/4 of the book were somewhat dragging and pointless. I liked Dumbldore's meetings with Harry though and those were the best chapters.

Im also disappointed at not finding out about the way to talk to Sirius which Luna hinted at in the last book and had me hanging off the edge of my seat waiting for it...

all in all. abit of a letdown (i may be biased cos im sad over

Spoiler

dumbledore

. I didnt enjoy the book half as much as i enjoyed OOTP. This is because of a mixture of reasons i guess. abit of the depressiveness of the content, abit of the spoiler by waf, the death, and just ...i dunno

 

[waddle_828]

lol

it would get a small mint, given its popularity....

i want the next book now!!

maybe we should kidnap JK and force her to write it constantly till she is finished??

 

[White Rabbit]

From what has been told of Regulus in Order of the Pheonix, I doubt he is that intelligent. He was described as a more blundering fool sort of character.
Snape is Snape. His memories, hatred etc. prove that.
I do agree with you when you say that there is more to Snape being the HBP than is being told. It has to be Snape who does a lot of the exposition in the next book now that Dumbledore has gone. What was the incident that made him trustworthy in Dubledore's eyes?
Or, maybe, Dumbledore knew all along that Snape was working for his own interest...that he was a double spy...and yet...baaahhh, i'm going into a mental HP mode.

Will Dumbledore's portrait be hung up????????????????????

Yeah, it's a very random theory that doesn't sit right, but I like enteraining wild theories. I mean, the idea that Severus was even a Half Blood, let alone the HBP was a bit 'out there' when we first got word of the title.

Perhaps Albus did know Severus was working for his own interests but used them to his own advantage? Both have so many layers I don't think we'll ever know.

Argonaut I wouldn't be suprised if there was a 3rd party, working for their own interests. Namley Snape.


Orange Juice I always read too much into the books, but my wild theories will tide me over until the novelty wears off.

 

[Sarah168]

Im deathly curious over the reason dumbledore trusts snape so much....i realllllllly want to know

 

[ishq]

what, you're suggesting there's a third party involved? Harry/Hogwarts/the Order; Voldemort/Death Eaters; and Snape/RAB?

No. That is too far fetched and impossible for the average Harry Potter fan (currently running up to Mummy and asking her the meaning of the S word, as you said) to understand. Plus, it detracts from the good side vs bad side concept.

All I think here is -
1.It can't be Regulas. If it is, then he couldnt have destroyed the Horcrux...he died pretty soon after Voldemort realised he was chicken. So, that Horcrux still exists (btw the Horcrux is an ingenius idea - anyone know if it has mythological roots? I'll google).

2. Snape loyalty is subject to his own agenda. I mean, at first, when I read his excuses for all of Bella's accusations in the Snipper's End chapter, I thought they were pretty lame, because I was so sure of what side he was on. But, when I re-read after the whole Unspeakable Vow incident, it all seemed pretty valid. He KNEW what Draco's mission was - to kill Dumbledore. He KNEW Draco probably wouldnt pull it off. And he said yes. Its got to say something. His past is the one least delved into. Maybe he has something to gain separated from this war? I dont know. The possibilities are endless. I dont think its romantic (Narcissa/Lily) though.

What did people think of the childhood Voldemort?

 

[White Rabbit]

Sarah I enjoyed HBP much more than OOTP, although i'll agree the relations were getting annoying, but then again, they're teenagers in a boarding school, of cause they're gonna be snogging all over the place. Hermione anoyed me more than ever, with her sulking over Harry doing better than her.

Still, theres much more to the Snape-Dumbledore senario to come - it still hasn't been revealed why Albus trusts him. Also, I reckon it was either organised - as in Dumbledore allowed Severus to sacrifice him in order to save Draco and Severus (who both would have died if Albus didn't), or (or perhaps AND) it was a mercy killing. Albus was dieing when they reached the school - it was clearly painful. For Severus was the only one with the antedote, it was kind of immpossible for Albus to call time so Severus could grab him the antedote while all the Death Eaters closed their eyes so they couldn't see Severus betraying them... Either way, I will not believe Severus is evil until he kills Harry and declares himself to be Voldermorts right hand man, or otherwise becomes the next new dark lord (which isn't entirley unfathomable)

 

[Sarah168]

and for those who're angry bout the infamous spoiler .. how could you even go browsing around online while still readin the book? in the 24 hours it took me to read it i avoided the computer at all costs .. not long after book 5's release a guy on my msn list put in his nick, "for anyone who hasnt read HP5, sirius dies!!", so i wouldn't be surprised if in a few minutes he'll have the same thing about dumbledore. there are dickheads out there that take pleasure in delivering unwanted spoilers without warning, i thought the book 5 release taught us all that. if u really didn't wanna ruin your reading experience, stay away from the net, trust me!!

i really really really wish i did that. I didnt have an old experience to learn from though. I read the OOTP the second i got my hands on it and dint leave my room til i finished. I couldnt read this one til today and i went online yesterday studiously avoiding news sites, gossip sites ...not BOS but that turned out to be ok anyway. The thing that killed it was me signing into msn...soooooooo stupid looking back. I looked at my list to see who was online normally and even chatted with a few "safe" people. JUST before i was gonna sign off and go read the book, i scroll down abit and see waf's nick this is lame but i almost cried. meh. its all over now and i've finished the book but i keep imagining how much more i woudl've enjoyed the book considring this is only my 2nd waiting for a HP book (i only got into HP after the first 4 were published already)...

Im going go absolutely nazi-like when the last book is realised and lock myself away avoiding human contact

 

[Sarah168]

Sarah I enjoyed HBP much more than OOTP, although i'll agree the relations were getting annoying, but then again, they're teenagers in a boarding school, of cause they're gonna be snogging all over the place. Hermione anoyed me more than ever, with her sulking over Harry doing better than her.

no no, i realise the ages and everything would have meant this romance stuff had to crop up somehow but it didnt stop me from being irked. as someone else said, it was overdone. despite the emphasis on "love" being powerful and blah blah, i felt like i was reading fan fic

i also felt that iw as let down by the writing because i got the HBP easily and when

Spoiler

snape

revealed it was him, i was like "meh...duhhh". Perhaps, im seeing things only on the surface though

major anti climax with this book. i dont feel the urge to run back and read it through a 2nd time. maybe i just cant handle the dark, sad stuff

 

[White Rabbit]

2. Snape loyalty is subject to his own agenda. I mean, at first, when I read his excuses for all of Bella's accusations in the Snipper's End chapter, I thought they were pretty lame, because I was so sure of what side he was on. But, when I re-read after the whole Unspeakable Vow incident, it all seemed pretty valid. He KNEW what Draco's mission was - to kill Dumbledore. He KNEW Draco probably wouldnt pull it off. And he said yes. Its got to say something. His past is the one least delved into. Maybe he has something to gain separated from this war? I dont know. The possibilities are endless. I dont think its romantic (Narcissa/Lily) though.

What did people think of the childhood Voldemort?

I agree there! I did like that JKR made Bella more than an insane psychopath in this book however, that she is indeed a real person. Spinners End gave us a bit of an insight into Snape too - supporting further the idea he aint rich. It also brought him beyond the typical sneering bastard we've come to love or hate.


As for Voldemorts childhood, I think it was more to squash all the sympathiseres of Tom's. Many assumed, growing up in an orphanage equated abuse and neglect. I was one of them (not a sympathiser, but I assumed he had a rough trot) moreover, I found the 'happy orphange' unrealistic. This was the Great Depression in London, leading into war time. Nobody of working classes looked well nourished and paticuarly health by 1990's standards. Moreover, I reckon Tom must have had copius ammounts of Felix Felicis to gain a spot at the only orphanage in London's Depression Years that not only provided a stafe, stable environment, enough food and support completley devoid of any kind of neglect or abuse. I expected JKR to continue to Oliver Twist like storylines, drawing more comparrisons between Tom and Harry.

 

[White Rabbit]

yeah i have an inkling about this.. that snape is still on dumbledores side.. i dunnoo... i jut cant get it in my head that he is evil..

While not definatly on the Orders side, I reckon he's loyal to Albus - perhaps in debt to him like he was James? Although I reckon theres more to it that than. You see, killing him theres so many ways to take it - he could be evil incarnate the next Dark Lord in waiting, killing Albus to secure his place - or he could be so loyal to Dumbeldore, he'd carry out any order - even if that order involved Snape killing the only man he feels gave him a chance. It'll be the source of theories for the next 48 months, thats for sure.

 

[Arvin Sloane]

48 months? Now who’s being naïve!

 

[Bookie]

Die Harry Die!