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HAY GUYS! The Unions are sick of small crowds (1 Viewer)

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yeah but those commerce students get all angsty when it comes to student elections and stuff 'cause they want some resume filler

so they all campaign for their friends with no policies
 

withoutaface

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Asquithian said:
Its hard to care anymore when we all know its going to happen. I still don't understand why people like the idea of less services even if it is at their own personal cost. The whole idea is pretty selfish. Like who are sooo very much in pro of VSU. Wow you get to save 500 bucks services die and truly disadvantaged people loose services they needed (I dont want to hear any winging from white middle class males/females who think they are serverly disadvantaged)
How are we any more selfish than someone anti-VSU who wants everyone else to be forced to pay union fees just so that this person can enjoy their own time more?
 

Not-That-Bright

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walrusbear said:
no love for USU here eh? see why i call the board conservative central not-that-bright??

also, don't bother promoting this 'VSU' thing as a real option, VSU really just stands for killing unions - we all know that.

i'll be protesting, i don't think it'll do anything but i think USU is essential to keeping the university as an experience rather than a training ground.

why is the tax analogy poor?
Ummm.... wtf? it's about 50/50 pro-vsu and anti-vsu... you can be liberal and be pro-vsu..
I'd suggest you look on the polls about the american/australian elections.
 

withoutaface

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If the disadvantaged are really that disadvantaged then the university itself should pick up the services, because if such services are necessary to provide a safe or accessible learning environment then I believe that it falls under their jurisdiction.

EDIT: Can I not be concerned for myself and many others who don't want to shell out fees? And a large chunk of those pro-USU take that line because they don't want to lose services that they find enjoyable.
 

braindrainedAsh

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It's not really rent a crowd because the clubs are funded by the union.... hence they should be pro USU logically. Its just a matter of encouraging people to come to the rallies, because students can be so apathetic and lazy.

Man I was at the UTS Gym today, and they have a sign up showing the estimated costs after VSU.... if you use the gym at uni, USU fees make up for the cost increase in the gym membership alone....

I will try and get to the rally this week.
 

Phanatical

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You don't think that it's selfish to force other people to be charitable just because you may think you are?
 

SashatheMan

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ohne said:
Only those miraculous student politicians who save us 20 cents of our lunch at uni after paying $500 can do that ;)
exactly

i was reading th eprice changes of beer at our uni campus and seriosuly its like 20c or max like 50c more.

i would have to drink alot of beer to make up the price i pay for the union fees.
 

ohne

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Asquithian said:
Its hard to care anymore when we all know its going to happen. I still don't understand why people like the idea of less services even if it is at their own personal cost. The whole idea is pretty selfish. Like who are sooo very much in pro of VSU. Wow you get to save 500 bucks services die and truly disadvantaged people loose services they needed (I dont want to hear any winging from white middle class males/females who think they are serverly disadvantaged)

Most of the uber SUPER enthusiastic pro VSU stuff comes from far right/redneck/homophobic/racist/fascists who don't want a cent of their money going to anyone who holds different beliefs to themselves. Namely homosexuals, women (that's for you phanatical), migrants, or anything that is not related directly to their interests. Despite the nice community we live in being moulded by such people. I'm thinking SDA, RDA protections of rights and freedoms in the constitution, women moving out of the kitchen, recognition that aboriginal people exist[ed], end of white Australia policy (Started by Holt finished off by Whitlam) and about x 1000 other reforms that people seem to take for granted. A great society is not created by listening to the apathetic majority.

VSU does mean the end of unions. Which of course is a shame.

I'd like to see unionism within the university stay however there are issues in the way in which they spend their money. There needs to be a shift in focus back to what the union does for students. Despite the fact that Australia has a shocking, horrible human rights record and that people are locked up in detention centres in the middle of the desert for upwards of 7 years whereas the UK doesnt hold anyone longer than 10 days does not bother your average maths student or engineer with body odour problems, nor does it worry a commerce student. Sure it is wrong but no one gives a fuck because they only care about themselves anyways.

As mentioned the unions at unsw are hopeless in terms of winning support. In a campus made up mainly of poorly dressed grunting engineers impersonating kel from Kath and Kim (rather badly), mad christians, and commerce students, who have the conscience of your average robotic vacuum cleaner, the union stating that it is 'striking' is totally usless. Even from someone like me who is sympathetic to the whole idea.

Asqy I don't see how VSU is "selfish" or that supporters of it "only care about themselves". You talk about student unions as if they are some bastion of equality redistributing wealth from the rich white middle class males/females to needier groups and ensuring welfare for all in the univeristy community.

Nothing could be further from the truth indeed the opposite is true.

1. The fee applies to everyone regardless of income and is the same. Poor unemployed students are hit much harder than those with a job or with wealthy parents.
2. Those who have more money (and hence use more services) get more money back from the union. Those who cannot afford to purchase food from the uni for example and bring lunch from home get less in return. The same is true for clubs sports etc.
3. None of the services provided by the UNSW Union are those people "need" needs refer to food, shelter and clothing. Indeed USU redistributes resources from needs to wants ie. rent money towards the scuba diving club or political campaigns.

So those who support VSU are not selfish at all. Indeed the opposite is true.
 

withoutaface

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Asquithian said:
All you are saying there is that you are concerned and support the interests of other selfish people and as such because you support such other selfish people you are not selfish.

You are concerned cheifly with yourself at the expense of some services that some people really do use (that you may not use or never realise that people use)...you are by definition being selfish. It's not that hard to admit. At least more selfish than a usu er.
Suppose VSU comes into place and the union collapses, leaving no option but to not pay fees. Would you then donate the $500 you would have spent on the union to charity? I think for 90+% of USUer's the answer would be no. They may be partially in it for the interests of others, but if they're not getting anything out of it they're not going to pay fees, because they, too, are selfish to some degree.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Asquithian, what you're claiming is.. that despite maybe even a majority of people all wanting the same thing, they are less nobel than the people fighting for something that the OTHERS don't want because they're doing it "FOR" them.

We're not babies, we don't need mothers.
 

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walrusbear said:
no love for USU here eh? see why i call the board conservative central not-that-bright??
Actually this board is fairly well balanced. Broadly speaking people tend to fall across the spectrum:

Right
Iron Woman
jennylim
Korn
Lexicographer
Neo_o
Not-That-Bright
ohne
Phanatical
Riewe
SashatheMan
snapperhead
tattoodguy
Rorix

Moderate
Frigid
Generator
Komaticom
MoonlightSonata
Serius
White Rabbit
Xayma
Ziff

Left
absolution*
Asquithian
AtticusFinch
cherryblossom
Comrade nathan
Deus
euripidies
katie_tully
leetom
malkin86
Murf
Serius
Vahl3
zahid

Of course this wouldn't be entirely accurate but roughly speaking from what I can gather (some I have utterely no clue hence aren't on there, most I have sort of a feeling of)
 

MoonlightSonata

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Not-That-Bright said:
Phanatical is right? he's a commy!! lol
He's only right on this issue.
Phanatical the extremist religious conservative? Men's rights and anti-abortion? Are you sure you have the right person?
 
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MoonlightSonata

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Not-That-Bright said:
He has conservative social values. But i'd definately put him on the left.
Yes that's the problem, the harder people to classify are conflicting on different axis (economic/social)

Everyone should take the test at political compass then we'd have a better view.
 

Not-That-Bright

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I took one of them, and i'm in the middle bottom left, going towards totalitarianism and far away from the people who claimed to be both bush and kerry voters lol it was funny.
 

Iron

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How did I end up on the right AND at the top of the list? I demand satisfaction Moonlight.
 

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