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Homosexuality in Australia (2 Viewers)

What do you think of homosexuality in Australia?

  • Yes, i strongly support it.

    Votes: 674 48.5%
  • I somewhat support it.

    Votes: 201 14.5%
  • No opinion

    Votes: 182 13.1%
  • I do not support it.

    Votes: 334 24.0%

  • Total voters
    1,391

bshoc

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dagwoman said:
Firstly, I don't take all homophobic comments as a personal attack on myself. I don't think my replies are fuelled by this, either. However, it is a topic I feel very strongly about, and I'm not afraid to defend it. I would do just the same for other topics, e.g. abortion, which has nothing to do with me.
Well at least you admit it, if gays go sticking their nose into marriage, abortion and the major world religions, things that have nothing to do with gays, then dont be surprised if other people do the same to them.

Secondly, the fact that gay people cannot have children naturally is stupid and not a legitimate reason for homophobia. We've gone through the fact that:
1. Not everyone is gay
GENIUS

2. The world is overpopulated as it is
Overall, yes, mostly China and India, the western world? Needs more.

3. Women can't reproduce by themselves either
yes .. and?

If you can give another reason for why gay people are bad and inferior, we can debate that, because the discussion about reproduction is pointless.
In order to make it pointelss you first have to prove that two women or two men can concieve, this isn't just about reproduction, but family in general, every child has one mother and one father, thats it, a gay family simply does not exist.

As for your very amusing comment about biology, there is a whole focus on "Evidence for Evolution" in the syllabus. I won't comment on your "I'm coming first- what are you ranked?" BS because someone has already instructed you to put it away. I don't need to justify my ability to a year 11 student.
Its a shame they don't have an "Evidence against Evolution" in the syllabus considering Darwin himself highlighted many flaws or gaps in his own theory - here's a few things to get you started: "cambrian explosion" .. "chinese fossil bed"
 

Se!zuRe.

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bshoc said:
In order to make it pointelss you first have to prove that two women or two men can concieve, this isn't just about reproduction, but family in general, every child has one mother and one father, thats it, a gay family simply does not exist.
well i guess wat u are actually reffering to by the word "family" as it is a very broad and general term. I think wat you are getting at is genetic family whereas both the mother and the father are the ones who created u. As for the word family it can be argued that a family could consist of two mothers/fathers or even a single mother/father or none at all, possibly an aunt or uncle culd raise a child. a family can be seen as people u most spend time with, interact with them in a way in which wuld constitue as "family". Not sure if I put it correctly but i think my idea gets put across and by no means am i putting u down im jsut indicating the several meanings and by us relating to families earlier we did mean simply a loving family and interactions which constitues as family, not necesarily ur views on genetic family... xD
 
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Se!zuRe.

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kami said:
The question of what one religious person defines as sex is relevant as it is a form of inquiry into the reasoning of that person's morals regarding sex. This promotes further debate as to why/why not sex between person's of a same gender are permissable.

Ah, who exactly are you saying hates heterosexuals?:confused:
ok possibly i didnt make myself clear but if u read this quote it might become more understandable

skip89 said:
again i believe the sex is not just a recreational. It should occur only within the context of marraige. Again if you have issues with this refer to my earlier posts.
as u can see its clearly stated that his religious beliefs tell him that sex can not occur outside the boundaries of marrige, ie no sex b4 marriage. So wat i am saying here is this evidence to support his arguement against gays is no more of an insult to gays, than it is to heterosexual couples who engage in sex b4 marriage. Even though he may not believe this is true own his own morals i know for a fact his life is based on the morals portrayed by the catholic faith (even stated so by kfunk). In closing sex b4 marriage relates equally to sex b4 marriage of all sexual preferences whether homo/hetreosexual, therefore this arguement cannot be used to support homosexual activities.... xD
 
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KFunk

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bshoc said:
In order to make it pointelss you first have to prove that two women or two men can concieve, this isn't just about reproduction, but family in general, every child has one mother and one father, thats it, a gay family simply does not exist.
You're using a very narrow biological view of 'the family', as aposed to a more modern conception which includes single parent families, blended families, families with adopted members etc. These families do not depend on biological connection, marriage or the presence of a mother & a father - instead they share the presence of a common social bond, forming the social unit that we call a family. If you define a family as "mother + father + kid(s)" then of course there is no gay 'family'. However, if we take a more reasonable definition which is appropriate to the kind of society we have in Australia then I would argue that you are incorrect. The one gay family I know, which consists of two mothers and a daughter (biological daughter of one mother via a planned conception), functions in the same way any other family does --> the parents earn money, contribute to society, instill morals in their daughter etc. while the daughter is as well adjusted as any other individual our age. Now I ask you, what in the world is wrong with this??? They are happy, they have a daughter, they display all the kinds of things you could expect from a family. Gay families simply do exist.
 

Se!zuRe.

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KFunk said:
You're using a very narrow biological view of 'the family', as aposed to a more modern conception which includes single parent families, blended families, families with adopted members etc. These families do not depend on biological connection, marriage or the presence of a mother & a father - instead they share the presence of a common social bond, forming the social unit that we call a family. If you define a family as "mother + father + kid(s)" then of course there is no gay 'family'. However, if we take a more reasonable definition which is appropriate to the kind of society we have in Australia then I would argue that you are incorrect. The one gay family I know, which consists of two mothers and a daughter (biological daughter of one mother via a planned conception), functions in the same way any other family does --> the parents earn money, contribute to society, instill morals in their daughter etc. while the daughter is as well adjusted as any other individual our age. Now I ask you, what in the world is wrong with this??? They are happy, they have a daughter, they display all the kinds of things you could expect from a family. Gay families simply do exist.
basically wat i said but alot better worded ty kfunk.. xD
 

kami

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jhopkins said:
as for the belief that the tranlation of the bible might have changeds its meaning, think about htis: if god truly wantas hias message to get across and considering he is all powerful he would control any discrepancy that might occur over the centuries of translation keeping his message true.
What happened to the precept of free will? Why would god 'control' people's writing if man's choice was 100%? Or do you believe god does not permit any to mispeak in his name?

jhopkins said:
i mean. the very last opage of the bible has a clear curse to anyone who dares to change ' take away a letter' or ''add a letter" to the scripture. even if u dont believe u wouldnt want to risk changing its contents.
If you don't believe then why would you care about a curse which you'd see as meaningless? There is no reason to think some political power wouldn't attempt to change some words and meanings when there is basically no public opposition (remembering they couldn't read). If you think about it, its not that different to what King James did - effectively forcing the church to change its definition of marriage for his purposes.

se!zure said:
as u can see its clearly stated that his religious beliefs tell him that sex can not occur outside the boundaries of marrige, ie no sex b4 marriage. So wat i am saying here is this evidence to support his arguement against gays is no more of an insult to gays, than it is to heterosexual couples who engage in sex b4 marriage. Even though he may not believe this is true own his own morals i know for a fact his life is based on the morals portrayed by the catholic faith (even stated so by kfunk). In closing sex b4 marriage relates equally to sex b4 marriage of all sexual preferences whether homo/hetreosexual, therefore this arguement cannot be used to support homosexual activities.... xD
My premise does not refer or relate to marriage though? It relates to his point regarding recreational sex not premarital.

bshoc said:
Well at least you admit it, if gays go sticking their nose into marriage, abortion and the major world religions, things that have nothing to do with gays, then dont be surprised if other people do the same to them.
Marriage, abortion and religions are social objects/issues and homosexuals are part of society hence most issues are still of relevance.

bshoc said:
yes .. and?
dhj said:
skip89 said:
I think of it like this- if everybody was a homosexual, than humankind would cease to continue. Doesnt that say something about homosexuality?
If everybody were women, then humanity would cease to continue. Does that say something about women?

The fact is that not everybody are women.
 

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gobaby said:
What are your views on homosexuality? Marriage?
Homosexuality and homosexual marriage is fine. Boo hoo for all the sad insecure people who can't tolerate same sex relationships.
 

Se!zuRe.

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Hero Of Time said:
Homosexuality and homosexual marriage is fine. Boo hoo for all the sad insecure people who can't tolerate same sex relationships.
wow nice comment someones done their homework.. xD
 

Se!zuRe.

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kami said:
My premise does not refer or relate to marriage though? It relates to his point regarding recreational sex not premarital.
OK once more for those of us who dont understand..

skip89 said:
again i believe the sex is not just a recreational. It should occur only within the context of marraige. Again if you have issues with this refer to my earlier posts.
i will also re quote the part here "It should occur only within the context of marraige." and as u can clearly see he mentions marriage.. and with wat i was saying, i only mentioned marriage and u quoted me, so u must have in some way been referring to marriage... and u asked who hates heterosexuals.. i was just stating that no one hates them but the point of pre marital sex relates to both sexual genres and shuldnt be against homosexuals... xD
 

dagwoman

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bshoc- once again taking comments out of context and not reading the entire discussion. I believe kami addressed everything.
 
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Se!zuRe. said:
OK once more for those of us who dont understand..



i will also re quote the part here "It should occur only within the context of marraige." and as u can clearly see he mentions marriage.. and with wat i was saying, i only mentioned marriage and u quoted me, so u must have in some way been referring to marriage... and u asked who hates heterosexuals.. i was just stating that no one hates them but the point of pre marital sex relates to both sexual genres and shuldnt be against homosexuals... xD
oh. for my last post I got you and skip89 mixed up...

anyway, does that mean, that when homosexuals are allowed to marry, sex is fine?

skip89, since infertile heterosexual couples are presumably still allowed to have sex?
 

skip89

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ElendilPeredhil said:
oh. for my last post I got you and skip89 mixed up...

anyway, does that mean, that when homosexuals are allowed to marry, sex is fine?

skip89, since infertile heterosexual couples are presumably still allowed to have sex?
thats part of my point. They cant marry. Whatever they do it is not marraige.
 

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The Christian Bible is not definitively against homosexuality, nor is it against the marriage of homosexuals. As with most things, it has come down to interpretation.

This is from one of the better written, balanced and researched articles I've found on this subject, written from a retired member of the Baptist ministry.

"There is an interesting note from church history.
[Noted church historian] John Boswell... has discovered that, whereas the church did not declare heterosexual marriage to be a sacrament until 1215 C.E., one of the Vatican Library's earliest Greek liturgical documents is a marriage ceremony for two persons of the same sex. The document dates to the fourth century, if not earlier. In other words, nine centuries before heterosexual marriage was declared a sacrament, the church liturgically celebrated same-sex covenants.9-9"

Chapter 9 of his paper is titled Full acceptance by society, including the blessings and legality of marriage should be extended to gays and lesbians in the same way it is extended to others. His entire paper looks at the issues raised here. Appendix A looks at the interpretation of the Bible, B at Hoomosexuality and the Bible, and C at the Three Sins. As there are various discussions happening here, I won't try to summarise a relatively lengthy article. He includes full references.

I included this reference because there are many people adding to this discussion, and perhaps more reading it, that would arguably benefit from reading an account of Christianity in regards to homosexuality that is from a new perspective, many of his statements are interesting, and while I've not yet researched his references in further detail, his focus and and attention to specific biblical references, such as Paul, Leviticus etc, are, at the very least, interesting reading.

As it was mentioned before, in regards to Paul, his stance is perhaps one of misinterpretation also (from the same source, and in regards to I Cor, 6:9):

Malakoi literally means "soft" and is translated that way by both KJ and RSV in Matt. 11:8 and Luke 7:25. When it is used in moral contexts in Greek writings it has the meaning of morally weak; a related word, malakia, when used in moral contexts, means dissolute and occasionally refers to sexual activity but never to homosexual acts. There are at least five Greek words that specifically mean people who practice same-gender sex. Unquestionably, if Paul had meant such people, he would not have used a word that is never used to mean that in Greek writings when he had other words that were clear in that meaning. He must have meant what the word commonly means in moral contexts, "morally weak." There is no justification, most scholars agree, for translating it "homosexuals."

I add this post only to indicate that perhaps one foundation from which theologically driven distaste of homosexuality, as well as its related marriage considerations, is not as solid as expected.

So, if sex should only occur within marriage, and Christian Bible, from which our laws originate, doesn't condemn homosexual marriage, what then?

Now I'm going out, so I've not the time to talk about the non-Christian side of things, so until I wander in here again, keep talking.
 
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skip89 said:
thats part of my point. They cant marry. Whatever they do it is not marraige.
They can't marry now. In the future, who knows? Maybe they will be able to.
 

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ElendilPeredhil said:
They can't marry now. In the future, who knows? Maybe they will be able to.
yer ur right most possibly they will be able to.... but it wuldnt be called marriage... as skip is saying marriage is a word based on the catholic religion and if this religion prohibits gay marriage no one has the right to change the bible to allow this to be... they may have all the same rights as marriage but possibly a new name for it culd be made... all im saying is marriage is a word based from the catholic church they can be married in the physical sense but wuldnt be so on paper.. in other words possibly a new name for marriage culd be put forward...
 

kami

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Se!zuRe. said:
yer ur right most possibly they will be able to.... but it wuldnt be called marriage... as skip is saying marriage is a word based on the catholic religion and if this religion prohibits gay marriage no one has the right to change the bible to allow this to be... they may have all the same rights as marriage but possibly a new name for it culd be made... all im saying is marriage is a word based from the catholic church they can be married in the physical sense but wuldnt be so on paper.. in other words possibly a new name for marriage culd be put forward...
Catholicism is not a religion, it is a religious denomination of christianity and marriage is not an exclusively christian concept otherwise jews, muslims, buddhists, hindus etc. would not be able to marry...which they currently can - both by their religions and with the legal ratification of the state.

Also, not all religions or denominations prohibit homosexual marriage - many will perform marriages between two men or two women however the government does not at present give these ceremonies the same legal ratification as those between an opposite sex couple.

Therefore it can be percieved as a form of religious discrimination as well if they ratify unions based only upon a single religious denomination's model.
skip89 said:
thats part of my point. They cant marry. Whatever they do it is not marraige.
No, the government does not recognise same-sex marriage but many religions do. And considering your 'no sex before marriage' point is derived from religion not law then you can't honestly apply that argument globally to all same sex intercourse.
 

KFunk

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For those who are against gay marriage (for theological or semantic reasons): are you against civil unions for homosexuals?
 

bshoc

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KFunk said:
For those who are against gay marriage (for theological or semantic reasons): are you against civil unions for homosexuals?
Definitely, there should be no orientation rights at all, or rather rights accorded on the basis of sexual orientation.
 

dagwoman

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bshoc said:
Definitely, there should be no orientation rights at all, or rather rights accorded on the basis of sexual orientation.
So shouldn't any two consenting adults be able to marry then, regardless of sex?
 

bshoc

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dagwoman said:
So shouldn't any two consenting adults be able to marry then, regardless of sex?
Marriage isn't accorded based on sexual orientation, a woman and a man, both gay still have the capacity to marry, irreguardless of the fact that they are gay.
 

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