Is modern politics inherently flawed? (2 Viewers)

[obliviousninja]

Re: The p00n thread

lol at the Clive Palmer for PM ads on the telly

Talk about a conflict of interest, and I don't know anything about politics.

Titanic 2 video is gold.

 

[Sy123]

Re: The p00n thread

Talking of things being totally removed from the elections

So its private companies which are supported by Rupert Murdoch not wanting to hold an advertisement that puts down Murdoch?

A private news service is not obliged to give a completely objective news report^(*), it doesn't make sense to expect unbiased political news from a private company whose primary aim is to instill its own values onto society and to make a profit.

(*) I have tried to find some Australian law giving a set of guidelines which the mass media is obligated to follow, if I have missed any please correct me.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: The p00n thread

In china , they barely even spend money on advertising for "votes".

No offence Nerds, but that is probably the worst example you could have given to support your argument.

Maybe people are frustrated that politicians literally lie to the public for votes, and this disheartens many people from discussing or wanting to know about politics.
The stereotype that 'politics is a dirty game' is largely true and is another reason why many people don't take it seriously and decide to donkey vote.

Other people legitimately don't care about the political system.

We also have people that in general are largely uneducated about the political system, many people don't realise that you don't vote for the leader, you vote for the party.
Sometimes this is not willful ignorance, the media certainly portrays it to be this way.

More along the lines of this, I know a few people who avoid voting because they dont really follow politics and dont want to cast a mis-informed vote.

Personally, I think the whole nature of politics is insane. I mean, define irony: politicians are amongst the least trusted people in society, yet they are the ones running the country. It's no wonder humanity kind of rhymes with insanity.

P.S. I'm NOT donkey voting/informal voting.

 

[Nooblet94]

Re: The p00n thread

So its private companies which are supported by Rupert Murdoch not wanting to hold an advertisement that puts down Murdoch?

A private news service is not obliged to give a completely objective news report^(*), it doesn't make sense to expect unbiased political news from a private company whose primary aim is to instill its own values onto society and to make a profit.

(*) I have tried to find some Australian law giving a set of guidelines which the mass media is obligated to follow, if I have missed any please correct me.

How are Seven and Ten supported by Murdoch? (Apart from the fact that Lachlan Murdoch is a chairman of Ten.)

There's possibly not any laws governing it, but it's about journalistic integrity - it's highly unethical to be passing off your opinions as fact (for example, by making your editorials the front page and relegating actual news to the back pages). Apart from the fact that a free press is one of the cornerstones of democracy and Murdoch himself said

I think the important thing is that there be plenty of newspapers with plenty of different people controlling them, so that there’s a variety of viewpoints, so there’s a choice for the public. This is the freedom of the press that is needed. Freedom of the press mustn’t be one-sided just for a publisher to speak as he pleases, to try and bully the community.

He owns 70% of the Australian papers and in a lot of cities, his paper is the only one published. This sums it up quite nicely.

 

[Sy123]

Re: The p00n thread

How are Seven and Ten supported by Murdoch? (Apart from the fact that Lachlan Murdoch is a chairman of Ten.)

There's possibly not any laws governing it, but it's about journalistic integrity - it's highly unethical to be passing off your opinions as fact (for example, by making your editorials the front page and relegating actual news to the back pages). Apart from the fact that a free press is one of the cornerstones of democracy and Murdoch himself said



He owns 70% of the Australian papers and in a lot of cities, his paper is the only one published. This sums it up quite nicely.

I agree that it is ethical and is only appropriate for media services to try and not provide a biased view, but they are their own enterprise and are very well within the right to do so. Murdoch is like a politician in this sense however, he speaks of free press and does not allow it to be delivered, but that is simply the nature of free enterprise and a fortunate lack of censorship. People who legitimately want a political report shouldn't be looking into big business media outlets, I'm sure there are many other alternative media areas that lack the amount of political slant.

 

[Nooblet94]

Re: The p00n thread

I agree that it is ethical and is only appropriate for media services to try and not provide a biased view, but they are their own enterprise and are very well within the right to do so. Murdoch is like a politician in this sense however, he speaks of free press and does not allow it to be delivered, but that is simply the nature of free enterprise and a fortunate lack of censorship. People who legitimately want a political report shouldn't be looking into big business media outlets, I'm sure there are many other alternative media areas that lack the amount of political slant.

The fact still remains that Seven and Ten, who have no commercial interest in public opinion of Rupert Murdoch, are refusing to run Get Up's ads. Whether or not that's legal (we'll have to wait for the ACCC ruling), I feel that it's wrong.

 

[Trebla]

Re: The p00n thread

Maybe people are frustrated that politicians literally lie to the public for votes, and this disheartens many people from discussing or wanting to know about politics.
The stereotype that 'politics is a dirty game' is largely true and is another reason why many people don't take it seriously and decide to donkey vote.

Other people legitimately don't care about the political system.

We also have people that in general are largely uneducated about the political system, many people don't realise that you don't vote for the leader, you vote for the party.
Sometimes this is not willful ignorance, the media certainly portrays it to be this way.

I believe most politicians don't deliberately 'lie'. It's more so being unable to keep their promises on things they can't control or make assumptions which don't become realised (sometimes unexpectedly).

For example, if you promise to implement some major policy and then all of a sudden the economy collapses which makes your policy no longer viable then the decision to shelve that policy isn't exactly you 'lying' to everyone that you will implement it. The problem is that the success of your promise relies on an assumption that the economy wouldn't collapse (ie you're making an assumption about an uncertainty).

In addition to this, you cannot just say 'oh we MIGHT implement this policy' (which is perhaps a more truthful statement) because no one wants to hear a politician who is unsure about what they're doing.

People want certainty when they are promised things in a policy so when it's withdrawn it pisses them off because what they thought was certain is no longer the case. However, people hate it when politicians communicate uncertainty (even if it is the truth) so politicians are put in a position where they must promise things with 'certainty' and hope that the uncertain element that it depends on goes their way.

 

[obliviousninja]

Re: The p00n thread

Jason Yat-Sen Li can speak fluent Dutch and German. Lol wut.

 

[OzKo]

Re: The p00n thread

Jason Yat-Sen Li can speak fluent Dutch and German. Lol wut.

That's probably down to the work he did with institutions like the UN and the World Economic Forum.

To be fair though, I think the key issue here is why does he look like Penny Wong?

 

[madharris]

Re: The p00n thread

lol at the Clive Palmer for PM ads on the telly

Hahaha yeah! The ads are amazing!

And I think I may forget to vote... Someone remind me! haha

 

[JT145]

Re: The p00n thread

That's probably down to the work he did with institutions like the UN and the World Economic Forum.

To be fair though, I think the key issue here is why does he look like Penny Wong?

All because they're both Asian...

All jokes aside though, I didn't really notice that until you pointed it out. I think similar hairstyle.

 

[SpiralFlex]

Re: The p00n thread

Is there politics for dummys, I am misinformed hence I will be drawing a donkey on my ballad paper.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: The p00n thread

This post, I wish I could rep. Politics is dependent on so many factors, some policies cannot be actualised on due to logistics in the world.

I understand the realities of it but many people don't. You make a promise which you can't keep and fail to deliver, you will lose people's trust.

So many times in politics you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, hence why I'd hate to be involved in it.

 

[Sy123]

Re: The p00n thread

I believe most politicians don't deliberately 'lie'. It's more so being unable to keep their promises on things they can't control or make assumptions which don't become realised (sometimes unexpectedly).

For example, if you promise to implement some major policy and then all of a sudden the economy collapses which makes your policy no longer viable then the decision to shelve that policy isn't exactly you 'lying' to everyone that you will implement it. The problem is that the success of your promise relies on an assumption that the economy wouldn't collapse (ie you're making an assumption about an uncertainty).

In addition to this, you cannot just say 'oh we MIGHT implement this policy' (which is perhaps a more truthful statement) because no one wants to hear a politician who is unsure about what they're doing.

People want certainty when they are promised things in a policy so when it's withdrawn it pisses them off because what they thought was certain is no longer the case. However, people hate it when politicians communicate uncertainty (even if it is the truth) so politicians are put in a position where they must promise things with 'certainty' and hope that the uncertain element that it depends on goes their way.

That excuse only applies to economic policy, if the government forecasts a surplus and end up with a deficit due to some MASS change in economic condition then that is understandable.
These people are politicians, they mostly have a background in law and economics and they should know what assumptions to make, just because they don't deliberately 'lie' doesn't mean they aren't being dishonest or being silly because they know they are making promises that they cannot keep.

Its not like every time a politician fails to deliver on a promise, its because of changing economic conditions

 

[Sy123]

Re: The p00n thread

Is there politics for dummys, I am misinformed hence I will be drawing a donkey on my ballad paper.

Both parties are the same shit with different smell

That's my opinion on the matter anyway

 

[nerdasdasd]

Both parties are the same shit with different smell

That's my opinion on the matter anyway

That's quite a good analogy. What are your thoughts on palmer?

 

[Sy123]

That's quite a good analogy. What are your thoughts on palmer?

Nothing too distinctive about him he is just a general right wing person, people just like picking on him because he's rich and its easy to sell that to the public

 

[SpiralFlex]

Please note, I did not create this thread.

 

[Spiritual Being]

Politics - fast track your way to parliament by doing a generic law degree and passing as many destructive laws as possible, regulating every aspect of our lives and providing work for all your "lawyer friends".

 

[Lolsmith]

In china , they barely even spend money on advertising for "votes".

...because they have a one party system you dolt

We also have people that in general are largely uneducated about the political system, many people don't realise that you don't vote for the leader, you vote for the party.

Not even this is true. You vote for individuals who declare their party affiliations.

The fact still remains that Seven and Ten, who have no commercial interest in public opinion of Rupert Murdoch, are refusing to run Get Up's ads. Whether or not that's legal (we'll have to wait for the ACCC ruling), I feel that it's wrong.

What if I wanted to run an ad that went over the reasons of why Hitler did nothing wrong and why the Nazis should have won WW2? Would you support any network's decision to not air that, even despite that this is an opinion just like GetUp! are trying to get their opinion across?