Islam (2 Viewers)

[HotShot]

In practice? I disagree completely. The majority of 'christians' in practice don't even let their beliefs affect them.

then wats they point lol - if it doesnt affect them then why bother - obviously it does and it did - it was evident from the way they treated aborgines.. and then the way they treat foreigners with different beliefs and cultures.

 

[snobby airlines]

It is specifically because of who this person is, he is the prophet and muslims are told to walk in his footsteps. It is now inappropriate to have sex with 9 year olds, however in the past it wasn't - But which rule applies? I'm sure all muslims these days find such an idea abhorrent but at the same time what does God have to say on the matter? Afterall it isn't your social taboos which matter, it is what your God has said that is the infallible truth - perhaps it is permissable to have sex with 9 year olds under certain situations?

In this society, you won't find anyone marrying a 9 year old. However it still may be a practice within certain African tribes. But umm guess what!? they're not Muslim!!! (ie following Islam).

A man and a woman are able to have sex only when they have married. Both MUST have FULL consent. Both being mature - ie reaching puberty. I don't care if you've read up on Iran's national law. They follow their own whims and do not follow Islamic law.

Not-That-Bright (i'm sorry but your post reflects your nickname perfectly) - Do you KNOW who 'this' person is? Have you truly read up on his life? I suggest you read the book Ash Shifa of Qadi Iyad or Muhammed - His life according to the earliest sources- Martin Lings. Maybe after you read these you will know why we LOVE to follow our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).


Answer me honestly, have you read up on Islam? Do you know what Gods words are? Or did you:
a)read the translation of the Qur'an without proper explanation of the text?
b) just take what you hear from your mates?
c)the news
d)websites
e) all of the above.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

In practice? I disagree completely. The majority of 'christians' in practice don't even let their beliefs affect them.

They don’t let their beliefs affect them? What do you mean by that?
They keep their prayer, and the rest of their lives in seperate boxes?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What I mean is that they are functionally the same as me (an atheist) and their christianity only often comes up at funerals or when they're asked.

 

[HotShot]

In this society, you won't find anyone marrying a 9 year old. However it still may be a practice within certain African tribes. But umm guess what!? they're not Muslim!!! (ie following Islam).

A man and a woman are able to have sex only when they have married. Both MUST have FULL consent. Both being mature - ie reaching puberty. I don't care if you've read up on Iran's national law. They follow their own whims and do not follow Islamic law.

Not-That-Bright (i'm sorry but your post reflects your nickname perfectly) - Do you KNOW who 'this' person is? Have you truly read up on his life? I suggest you read the book Ash Shifa of Qadi Iyad or Muhammed - His life according to the earliest sources- Martin Lings. Maybe after you read these you will know why we LOVE to follow our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).


Answer me honestly, have you read up on Islam? Do you know what Gods words are? Or did you:
a)read the translation of the Qur'an without proper explanation of the text?
b) just take what you hear from your mates?
c)the news
d)websites
e) all of the above.

honestly get a life - its religion its not fact its not the truth its a belief -duh faith doesnt mean its true- the whole point is its not real. what the point in reasearhcing something that does have any truth in it what so ever.

 

[snobby airlines]

honestly get a life - its religion its not fact its not the truth its a belief -duh faith doesnt mean its true- the whole point is its not real. what the point in reasearhcing something that does have any truth in it what so ever.

It seems you like to tell yourself that so as to keep 'safe'. Well buddy, ignorance won't get you anywhere. You find the facts from the real sources. I thought that's what they taught us at school, wasn't it?

There are many facts in the Qur'an as well as miracles. Whether you wish to believe it or not, is not my problem, but don't argue a point in which you have no idea about.

How can anyone take you seriously or discuss things with you when you have a closed mind.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Answer me honestly, have you read up on Islam? Do you know what Gods words are? Or did you:
a)read the translation of the Qur'an without proper explanation of the text?
b) just take what you hear from your mates?
c)the news
d)websites
e) all of the above.

My mate who knew a muslim real good once, like he talked to this muslim for maybe 2 hours at a pub, reckons muslims are lyk full badass cunts they're like 'FKN HELL NIGGA'.

 

[funkyj]

Not to disrespect the muslims or those who believe in muslims and its religion, having come from a state with millions of muslims and having business dealings with some of them, I've to say that there're the ones that I would keep an eye out for. I even had a muslim friend once when I was in high school. My expereince with them, there's hardly many muslims that are truely friendly and when I say friendly I mean actually helps you in time of needs. They stick to their own group more than others and couldn't look past the obvious facts and the truth whenever there are some issues. I can't believe how they can be so inconsiderate in blocking like the entire street and prevent cars/people from crossing that street during their prayers time. Normally peasants do not want any trouble and so they take another route around the path. But I must say that's just not right. Ofcourse there are some that are considerate but they are very few around. Just my 2 cents.

 

[snobby airlines]

My mate who knew a muslim real good once, like he talked to this muslim for maybe 2 hours at a pub, reckons muslims are lyk full badass cunts they're like 'FKN HELL NIGGA'.

Hahahaha, can anyone else see how pathetic that is? 1. YOUR mate is the one who spoke to the muslim 2. I didn't know that after speaking to someone for 2 hours means that you know them really well 3. It's forbidden for a Muslim to be in a pub let alone drink alcohol

So you have obviously based your judgements on all muslims, because YOUR MATE got to know some muslim at a pub for 2 hours. Very bright.

and funkyj, because you've dealt with bad muslims (or perhaps just arabs who you thought were muslim) doesn't mean that that's what Islam is all about.
I could go on and on about the endless times i've come across people who have treated me badly when i needed them, or 'stuck' to their own group. But that's life, people tend to feel more comfortable that way. I don't go around saying all hindu's are backstabbers or all christians are liars. I have many close friends who are practising and non practising christians. When there is respect on both sides, you can't go wrong.

There's good and bad in every religion or culture. I thought everyone knew that already and moved on? *rolls eyes*
That's why we all need to educate ourselves properly rather than talking trash.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

What I mean is that they are functionally the same as me (an atheist) and their christianity only often comes up at funerals or when they're asked.

I find that mulims I know are not appreciably diiferent from atheists, their religion does not come up all the time. However, yeah, there are some times when religion comes into it, e.g. they don’t go out drinking, and they don’t wear skimpy clothing...but yeah, I would say that muslims are functionally the same as other religions, or atheists.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'd say that muslims are more prone to having their faith affect how they live their life than christians. This is not necessarily a 'bad' thing, if I was a believer I imagine i'd be a fundamentalist - it's something I somewhat admire in muslims.

 

[Forbidden.]

Should I convert to Islam ? I took the message of the Islamic American, Adam seriously, what physical and mental benefits does it provide ?

 

[funkyj]

and funkyj, because you've dealt with bad muslims (or perhaps just arabs who you thought were muslim) doesn't mean that that's what Islam is all about.

I didn't mean to imply that Islam was the cause of these bad muslims. I apologise if I've given you that impression. I am simply stating the years of experience I have with them. I come from India where there are tonnes of both Hindus and Muslims (not arabs) especially in the areas where I had lived and worked. I am neither and also not an Indian by ethnicity.

I could go on and on about the endless times i've come across people who have treated me badly when i needed them, or 'stuck' to their own group. But that's life, people tend to feel more comfortable that way. I don't go around saying all hindu's are backstabbers or all christians are liars. I have many close friends who are practising and non practising christians. When there is respect on both sides, you can't go wrong.

I would have attributed that to common human psychology but I wouldn't in my case. That's a probability issue and I wouldn't pick one group over the other if it wasn't for the fact that the group in question is more adamant than any other to stick to their own gun on any matter. But I wouldn't even dare start to generalize that all muslims are alike as I know the muslims in my area are hardly representative of the muslims or even Islams everywhere. Couldn't agree more with what u said about respect.

There's good and bad in every religion or culture. I thought everyone knew that already and moved on? *rolls eyes*
That's why we all need to educate ourselves properly rather than talking trash.

Amen ....

 

[HaBibi~]

Should I convert to Islam ? I took the message of the Islamic American, Adam seriously, what physical and mental benefits does it provide ?

wat do u mean "should u convert"? if sumone says yes, is that gunna make u convert?

if thats the case, then obviously dont just do that, u twit. make sure u noe the pros and cons of the religion, and be weary of the stigma associated with it.

hahahahha, should i convert to Islam.....

 

[HaBibi~]

Besides i dont see anyone commenting on the kings of western history and how they married girls at the ages of 7-12 WITHOUT their consent. Why is it that people try to nit pick on Islam when in their own history it's worse....

Also, why is it that children as little as 4 years old worked in mines? They were physically capable of doing so. They were mature.

Hope that cleared up a few things for you HaBibi.

how can u compare the supposedly 'seal of all prophets' to a king, a mere human? im sure many muslims will object to this comparison.

children working at mines at the age of 4? thats child labour. unless u have reference that they voluntarily worked in mines, and them being physically capable of doing so, and being mature enough to do so, then dont mention that example anywhere again. coz its not a good one

summarily...no, u didnt clear a few things up for me. but thanx for trying

 

[withoutaface]

Hi HaBibi~,

Just so you know, Aisha consummated her married with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) at the age of 9. There was no objection from Aisha, she had full consent to this.
She was already engaged prior to the Prophet Muhammad but the groom broke it off as his parents did not want him to convert to Islam for her.

At the time it was not abnormal for women at that age to get married. There was no concept of childhood or teenhood at the time (a 9 year old then would be like a 20 year old now).

Even the ENEMIES of the Prophet Muhammad didn't use his marriage to Aisha to defame him. And trust me, they would find any little thing to dishonour him. But they didn't. Why? Because it was NORMAL.

The Prophet Muhammad was not the one who approached her to get married. There was a middle woman who recommended Aisha to him.


Besides i dont see anyone commenting on the kings of western history and how they married girls at the ages of 7-12 WITHOUT their consent. Why is it that people try to nit pick on Islam when in their own history it's worse....

Also, why is it that children as little as 4 years old worked in mines? They were physically capable of doing so. They were mature.

Hope that cleared up a few things for you HaBibi.

"Everybody else was doing it" doesn't cut it as an excuse when your almighty prophet is supposed to be perfect. Regardless of the "concepts" of childhood at the time, there is no way a 9 year old is mature enough to make such a decision. Also note that noone here worships the kings of western history, and I'll be the first to admit they were corrupt and generally didn't do a lot right.

 

[HaBibi~]

Maybe after you read these you will know why we LOVE to follow our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

well, heres an indication of Muhammad and His life according to a Hadith:

"A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, ‘O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk.’ Allah's Apostle said, ‘I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.’ So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died."
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261: Narrated by Anas bin Malik.)

and by the way, before anyone starts by saying "it might not be a credible Hadith", it is actually one of the six major Hadiths that Sunni varients uphold greatly, and is one of the two "sahihs".

Answer me honestly, have you read up on Islam? Do you know what Gods words are? Or did you:
a)read the translation of the Qur'an without proper explanation of the text?
b) just take what you hear from your mates?
c)the news
d)websites
e) all of the above.

well, the only one i've tried to do (kind of) is option b. the only difference is i havent actually read a TRANSLATION of the Qur'an. i've read the arabic. and i've come across something very interesting. here it is in english:

9:5 And so, when the sacred months are over [6] , slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God wherever you may come upon them, [7] and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place [8] ! Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace. [9]

if you haven't understood the above passage, it is basically an instruction for Muslims to "slay" non believers. in arabic however, it does not say "slay" them. it says "wakhuthoohum". do you know what that means?

"and KILL them".

Straight from the Qur'an, darling. Straight from the Qur'an.

 

[snobby airlines]

Firstly, I was not comparing Muhammad (pbuh) to kings. He's beyond that. I was stating that it was a common practice with kings however not one person mentioned it - mind you they were much worse than what that Muhammad did.

Secondly, withoutaface, to say that "there is no way a 9 year old is mature enough to make such a decision" then obviously you don't know the character of Aisha and what she was capable of and what a woman she was. Care to be enlightened?

My example of children working in mines at the age of 4 was so that you can understand that there was no real concept of childhood back then - whereas now a 4 year old still won't know how to talk properly.

Now for the juicy part, my dear HaBiBi ...

I would like to say that I am no muhaddith to be able to interpret the context of that hadith and its authenticity. You need to understand that hadith and Qur'an are a science.

You cannot simply provide a hadith or an ayah without proper context. That's very ignorant of you HaBiBi and seeing as though you've supposedly done your research, I would've thought better of you.
There are different classifications of Sahih (let alone hasan and da'eef); the narrators; the chain; the content all need to be analysed. One hadith may not suffice. There may be 2 or 3 others to support it or discredit it.
You do need to know that scholars have dedicated their entire lives (of about 40-50 years) memorising all the hadiths and the Qur'an. And then little miss habibi smarty pants comes along with her cut and paste jobs and decides to be a scholar too, how convenient.

It's just like me picking up a book on medicine and deciding that i know what needs to be done to treat someone who has Hepatitis B, for example. Is that legitimate? Or should i leave to the doctors who have studied 7 years or more?

Whether you read the translation or the arabic, it will not do justice. Have you studied the entire Qur'an to interpret it? Have you memorised the many thousands of hadiths which are used in conjuction to the Qur'an to support its verses? I'm afraid you haven't, but hey neither have I. There are those that are qualified though, and you might want to take knowledge off them - hence why i have recommended those 2 books, because all the interpreting is done for you
I'll give you an example of taking things out of context. This is regarding the prohibition of alcohol. Obviously during the early stages of Islam it was permissable to drink but there had to be a way to gradually reveal to them (the muslims) that it was going to be forbidden and not something that smacked them in the face out of thin air. This mainly occurs in four verses in the Qur'an which are not in the same chapters. Now if you were to read the first verse, you'd think "sweet, drinking is ok as it comes from dates and grapes". But there are the remainder of the verses which later prohibit its consumption.

 

[snobby airlines]

well, heres an indication of Muhammad and His life according to a Hadith:

"A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, ‘O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk.’ Allah's Apostle said, ‘I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.’ So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died."
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261: Narrated by Anas bin Malik.)

You seem pretty intelligent HaBiBi...
Do you honestly believe that's why Muslims follow and love the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). hehe

It just shows how much you really do know.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Secondly, withoutaface, to say that "there is no way a 9 year old is mature enough to make such a decision" then obviously you don't know the character of Aisha and what she was capable of and what a woman she was. Care to be enlightened?

Isn't she playing with dolls in a verse in the koran? Doesn't seem like the acts of someone who should be having sex with much older men to me. Do you believe that there are OTHER 9 year old girls that are 'mature' enough to have sex with men? or was she the only one to ever exist?