isreali- paleistine (4 Viewers)

[ari89]

tl;dr

cool then fuck off

 

[historykidd]

cool then fuck off

nah im right arijew

 

[jenzipoo]

Zionism is not a new concept. And don't forget, the first choice was not Palestine for the Zionists.

Herzl had the idea of Uganda...it was rejected by the majority of the other members of the zionist federation

Gaza is not like West Bank, I'd like to see you try and live in Gaza. But the point is why should the European Jews live in mainland Palestine, while the Palestinian Muslims, live in a small pocket of their own country?

i wasnt allowed to enter gaza...but no ones arguing with you in the conditions argument...theyre both horrendous with gaza sitting in a much worse position.

what you need to understand is a) most jews living in israel now arent of european decent...the rescuing of various jewish communities in trouble after the creation of the state (from yemen, iraq, ethiopia, russia and other places) make up the majority of the population. also remember the 1.4 million arabs (of a 7 million population-jews make up 5.5 million)
now this becomes your opinion v mine because you feel the jews are invaders and have shoved the palestinians into a small area of their own land like an ethnic cleansing concentration camp type action.
i dont see it that way

Right, Israel withdrew from a tiny portion of the country, in order to stuff the Arabs into it, and then surround them from all corners, with exception to the Sea, and then starve and bomb them?

mass zionist theory revealed ahhhh they caught us runnnnn

my ancestors and family fought in that war...there was no mass conspiracy to jam the palestinians into a small crappy part of the land...the gaza strip was owned by egypt and the west bank by jordan post 48. these countries, along with the other attacking armies, asked the palestinians to leave the area while the fighting occured until they destory the jews and then they can come back to their homes..thats why they kept their keys..then when israel won the war the palestinians were living in these lands being looked after by egypt and jordan. this was until israel recliamed the areas
but yeah the zionists conspired it all

How the fuck do you get off talking about Green Houses? You're so damn retarded it's not funny.

o yeahh all this talk about green houses gets my uptight jewish womanly self going...youre a fucking idiot...why i mentioned greenhouses is that the many years that the settlers were living in gaza they learnt ways to grow crops in the desert...specially designed green houses made by israelis who of course do fuck all for the world..these green houses could have been used to grow crops but instead they were savagly destroyed

It's the law. You either follow it, or you don't. Don't for a second think the "arab armies" is something Israel fears. They have 5th generation modern weaponry, capable of blowing any arab army to pieces. Whereas these "arab armies" you talk of hold pre cold-war soviet weaponry or it's equivalent, or are in collusion with Israel (see Egypt and Saudi Arabia)

Basically, the Arabs are using the same weapons Israel did in 1948, when it beat the "arab armies" the first time round. Israel is not a victim, infact it's violating the World Court orders, and is doing just about everything that had happened to it in the Second World War, with the only difference being direct industrial genocide, but genocide nonetheless.

as i said...hindsight is a beautiful thing...at the time the israelis had far from the type of weaponry in terms of quality and numbers as the attacking arab armies...they won then so youre saying now that war ok because they have better weapons than then. unfortunately for israel (as is viewed in the last few days) is that it values the lives of its own people far above anything else.
as golda meir said “We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us”
I dont know what type of people you think jews or israelis are but were not savages and whats going on in the middle east is not genocide. you go listen to some genocide survivors (holocaust, Rwanda, bosnia, sudan) and then come back and tell me what you think. dont quote me some definition..because it comes down to a matter of opinion again in terms of the intentions and occurences from the israeli side.
whats happening there is a product of brain washing by the palestinian leaders..they have created a mass army of people willing to die for a cause thathas been fabricated. these soldiers of g-d/revolutionaries/terrorists who are caught up in all of this are then creating a further problem of death and destruction onto the israeli people. causing the israeli government/army to retaliate. this retaliation further spurs the cause and fuels the hatred but is neccessary for israeli survival. thus creating a massive circle of hate, death and retaliation.

No he didn't. Go take a closer look at the reservations in the Camp David accords. Most of the concessions, reservations, etc, were from Israel.

'Ehud Barak offered Arafat an eventual 91% (after many years - see section on territory) of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip, with Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state; in addition, all refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. But before any gradual Israeli withdrawal, all Palestinian terrorist infrastructure must be dismantled. Arafat, however, refused. The Palestinians wanted the immediate withdrawal of the Israelis from the occupied territories, and only subsequently the Palestinian authority would crush all Palestinian terror organizations.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_2000_Summit

Right, the Arabs, and the settlers who punish the Arabs. They're below the "poverty line".

not really
more the ethiopians, yemenites and iraqis who find it hard to adjust to the modern world. holocaust survivors. people struggling to pay taxes in one of the highest tax paying countries in the world. the list goes on

 

[jenzipoo]

o and sam i saw you mention normal finkelstein in a respectable light
:rofl:
youve got to be kidding me?!
his made up phoney quotes, his failed academic proffession, his mocking of holocaust survivors and terrorists under the guise of wit, his use of stereotypes and blatant lies
he was denied tenure and i havent seen him in the news for ages

 

[sams057]

More news from the front:
Israel is stealing more water from the sub-human arabs. Yay!

In this case, demanding all available water underneath Israel/Palestine, will become a demand for Lebanon’s water flowing through the Litani River whenever the water crisis in Israel hits predetermined “red lines.”

lol i can almost see the israeli propaganda machine (a la the hollowmen on ABC) that come out after every war and try to justify their reasons for starting the war and the inevitable genocide that typically follows through planning their next move...

Zionist 1: O.K, our water source is running out, we need to get water from somewhere.

Zionist 2: Hey, let's try and invade Lebanon again, they got the Litani River (licks lips)

Zionist 1: O.K but we need a reason for the war so we can justify the killing of innocent civilians

Zionist 2: Well, they did give us back 2 dead bodies.

Zionist 1: You're a genius!

Zionist 2: Huh, you're actually gonna run with the 'oh they tricked us by giving us two dead bodies' excuse?

Zionist 1: No, um...errrrr...we'll say...ummm...SAMIR KUNTARR!!!! THAT EVIL LEBANESE MAN WE RELEASED...This is what we'll do...we'll put a "MADE BY IRAN, FIRED BY HEZBOLLAH" sticker on one of our rockets and fire into Tel Aviv...and we'll give some jews land to say they saw him running out of Tel Aviv.

Zionist 2: Brilliant, brilliant, but what if samir comes out and provides evidence he was in lebanon

Zionist 1: Oh dont worry we'll just say it's propaganda concocted by Hezbollah and/or their affiliated T.V stations.

Zionist 2: Ok good, i'll get on the phone with washington

Zionist 1: No need, Bush is already here, he's in Olmert's room

 

[sam04u]

i wasnt allowed to enter gaza...but no ones arguing with you in the conditions argument...theyre both horrendous with gaza sitting in a much worse position.

Why? You afraid of getting some dirt in your nails? Norman Finkelstein has been to Gaza.

countries, along with the other attacking armies, asked the palestinians to leave the area while the fighting occured until they destory the jews and then they can come back to their homes..thats why they kept their keys..then when israel won the war the palestinians were living in these lands being looked after by egypt and jordan.

Jenzipoo, get with the times. That propoganda has been disproven countless times. Infact, you can not as a scholar on Israeli history and argue that point. It's well documented that the Palestinian refugees were not as a result of "leaving to make way for the invaders" but rather an ethnic cleansing. Even hardlined zionists like Beni Morris, don't argue that point anymore. It's gone, it's faded into history, it's disproved.

these green houses could have been used to grow crops but instead they were savagly destroyed

For a couple of people. You don't honestly believe that with the water, food, medicine shortages, that a few green houses that were pillaged could have supported all the Palestinians in Gaza do you? You know how ridiculous that sounds?

The Palestinians don't deserve to live in the conditions they do. Are you really going to blame the conditions they live on, on the abandoned green houses which if they (as the reports I've heard on them) were abandoned. Were Palestinians even shown how to operate them? I personally don't believe the whole green house story, but considering it's true, it does not change nothing. I don't want to hear about this green house nonsense, there are over a million Palestinians with water, electricity, gas, and food shortages. All of which are probably needed to operate these "green houses" used to justify the torturing of Palestinians. I'm going to more deeply investigate this, because it's absolutely annoying having it constantly brought up in these debates.

at the time the israelis had far from the type of weaponry in terms of quality and numbers as the attacking arab armies...

That's completely untrue. The Israelis pretty much had the best Soviet WW2 military equipment. (Israel was supported by the Soviety Union.)

they won then so youre saying now that war ok because they have better weapons than then. unfortunately for israel (as is viewed in the last few days) is that it values the lives of its own people far above anything else.

"War" is okay if there is a just reason for it. "War" for pillaging, looting, controlling, manipulation, is unjust, due to the reason being unjust. A resistance however is not a war.

But that's beside the point. Israel initiated and won those wars, not the Arab armies.

I dont know what type of people you think jews or israelis are but were not savages and whats going on in the middle east is not genocide.

Israel is a nation of the most civilised savages to have ever walked the earth. There is no genocide in the middle east, but there is genocide in Gaza.

Ehud Barak offered Arafat...

Jenzipoo, it doesn't matter what Ehud Barak offered, it matters what Palestine was entitled too. They were entitled to the '48 borders. They were entitled to the full "right of return" for all the refugees. They were entitled to compensation by all who had their homes expropriated and occupied by Israel. They were entitled to East Jerusalem as their capital. They were entitled to a full and immediate withdrawal of Israel from all occupied territories.

Ehud Barak had no right to make offers, and play around with the law. What matters is what the Palestinians are entitled too, and so by law they should be given what they're entitled too.

 

[jenzipoo]

Why? You afraid of getting some dirt in your nails? Norman Finkelstein has been to Gaza.

my pretty jewish uptight nails have had much dirt underneath them...but thanks for the concern and no due to the fact that i am jewish i was not allowed in without being denied access back into israel afterwards

woop dee for norman..that doesnt make him more credible..he can just talk more shit claiming he saw it with his own eyes blha blah blah

theres nothing that i hate more than those who are anti israel who hop on their high horse thinking theyve won any argument by quoting a self hating jew because wow if a jew is saying such things about israel it must be true..these self hating jews will, in the crudest way possible, be in the line to the gas chambers right next to every other jew

Jenzipoo, get with the times. That propoganda has been disproven countless times. Infact, you can not as a scholar on Israeli history and argue that point. It's well documented that the Palestinian refugees were not as a result of "leaving to make way for the invaders" but rather an ethnic cleansing. Even hardlined zionists like Beni Morris, don't argue that point anymore. It's gone, it's faded into history, it's disproved.

one of the greatest israel defenders alan dershowitz still uses it.
faded yes...but not due to its false nature only because of it repetition and it being ignored by the other side

For a couple of people. You don't honestly believe that with the water, food, medicine shortages, that a few green houses that were pillaged could have supported all the Palestinians in Gaza do you? You know how ridiculous that sounds?

The Palestinians don't deserve to live in the conditions they do. Are you really going to blame the conditions they live on, on the abandoned green houses which if they (as the reports I've heard on them) were abandoned. Were Palestinians even shown how to operate them? I personally don't believe the whole green house story, but considering it's true, it does not change nothing. I don't want to hear about this green house nonsense, there are over a million Palestinians with water, electricity, gas, and food shortages. All of which are probably needed to operate these "green houses" used to justify the torturing of Palestinians. I'm going to more deeply investigate this, because it's absolutely annoying having it constantly brought up in these debates.

im not saying it would have solved the problem...but because we cant solve the whole problem we mustn't try ease the situation for a few?
im not blaming the problem on the destruction of the greenhouses...now youre just swinging the topic and puting words into my mouth. all i was saying is that instead of just accepting what was left for them and utlising it, the palestinians living in the gush katif area went all fat lipped and burnt the places down..and dont bother disproving it..i have spoken to and seen pictures from settlers who were removed and soldiers who were last to the leave the area. the greenhouses were there and then destroyed (along with all the other infrastructure such as homes, schools, play grounds etc. end of discussion

That's completely untrue. The Israelis pretty much had the best Soviet WW2 military equipment. (Israel was supported by the Soviety Union.)

they EVENTUALLY got these weapons..a lot of the weapons they started with were second hand and smuggled in..they did not start with these weapons..and even when they had them the ratio of soldiers from both sides was far off and ratio of soviet high grade weapons to soldiers was also low

"War" is okay if there is a just reason for it. "War" for pillaging, looting, controlling, manipulation, is unjust, due to the reason being unjust. A resistance however is not a war.

well again mr opinion steps in..from the men and women in the israel armie's perspective (the majority of them) theyre fighitn a war of survival, a good enough reason to jusitfy war
in your eyes you see it as ethnic cleansing, genocide and unjustified

But that's beside the point. Israel initiated and won those wars, not the Arab armies.

but it is the point. if they lost then what? you cannot wage war and then lose and then say o well lets all be friends and forget about that war we just waged on you...we want the land back

Israel is a nation of the most civilised savages to have ever walked the earth. There is no genocide in the middle east, but there is genocide in Gaza.

please please educate yourself on what genocide actually is and not just the dictionary definition of the term
im now taking offence to your misuse and casual use of the word

Jenzipoo, it doesn't matter what Ehud Barak offered, it matters what Palestine was entitled too. They were entitled to the '48 borders. They were entitled to the full "right of return" for all the refugees. They were entitled to compensation by all who had their homes expropriated and occupied by Israel. They were entitled to East Jerusalem as their capital. They were entitled to a full and immediate withdrawal of Israel from all occupied territories.

Ehud Barak had no right to make offers, and play around with the law. What matters is what the Palestinians are entitled too, and so by law they should be given what they're entitled too.

its just what youre not getting...israelis and a lot of the world believe israel has a right to exist. most say in its 67 borders..they dont believe entitlement plays a part anymore. they may be entitled to such things as right of return for all refugees (again opinion) but its not practical and the population ratios would lead to an unsafe situation and the eventual end of israel..its just not what any leader who feels israel has the right to exist would allow. practical would be to compensate to those that feel they justly have a right to return

so youre saying ehud barak, prime minister of israel at the time, does not have a right to bargain a peace deal? so you want this so called 'genocide' to go on forever? israel isnt going anywhere! so if you dont want peace bargaining then theyll keep fighting and retaliating

 

[sams057]

Many more jews and zionists are blatanly anti-Islamic. I'm a muslim, and I'm very inclined towards Jews. I mean Einstein, Marx, and even many modern Jews, like Norm. Finkelstein and John Stewart.

um sorry to burst your bubble but einstein wasnt exactly anti-islamic, he was actually anti-religion. he didn't even believe jews had the right to have their state saying they were in no way superior to any other group of people...this from a man who was kicked out of europe amid all the hysteria that was to be WW2...no wonder he declined being israel's PM, he didn't even agree to the place being there in the first place.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hh-Ij8qaiUlcVItOKC94wrhA2R1w

 

[sam04u]

um sorry to burst your bubble but einstein wasnt exactly anti-islamic, he was actually anti-religion. he didn't even believe jews had the right to have their state saying they were in no way superior to any other group of people...this from a man who was kicked out of europe amid all the hysteria that was to be WW2...no wonder he declined being israel's PM, he didn't even agree to the place being there in the first place.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hh-Ij8qaiUlcVItOKC94wrhA2R1w

Um... you completely missed the point I was trying to make.

 

[ari89]

^Did you actually read what he said?

Edit: Oh sam is here now to point it out

 

[sams057]

hey jenzipoo, forgive my ignorance but why whenever you write the word "god" you write "g-d"??? seriosuly its not a joke i want to know

 

[RohanZ]

lol i can almost see the israeli propaganda machine (a la the hollowmen on ABC) that come out after every war and try to justify their reasons for starting the war and the inevitable genocide that typically follows through planning their next move...

Zionist 1: O.K, our water source is running out, we need to get water from somewhere.

Zionist 2: Hey, let's try and invade Lebanon again, they got the Litani River (licks lips)

Zionist 1: O.K but we need a reason for the war so we can justify the killing of innocent civilians

Zionist 2: Well, they did give us back 2 dead bodies.

Zionist 1: You're a genius!

Zionist 2: Huh, you're actually gonna run with the 'oh they tricked us by giving us two dead bodies' excuse?

Zionist 1: No, um...errrrr...we'll say...ummm...SAMIR KUNTARR!!!! THAT EVIL LEBANESE MAN WE RELEASED...This is what we'll do...we'll put a "MADE BY IRAN, FIRED BY HEZBOLLAH" sticker on one of our rockets and fire into Tel Aviv...and we'll give some jews land to say they saw him running out of Tel Aviv.

Zionist 2: Brilliant, brilliant, but what if samir comes out and provides evidence he was in lebanon

Zionist 1: Oh dont worry we'll just say it's propaganda concocted by Hezbollah and/or their affiliated T.V stations.

Zionist 2: Ok good, i'll get on the phone with washington

Zionist 1: No need, Bush is already here, he's in Olmert's room

we need moar anti-palestine propaganda such as this.

 

[JaredR]

hey jenzipoo, forgive my ignorance but why whenever you write the word "god" you write "g-d"??? seriosuly its not a joke i want to know

Hey, see this thread for the answer: http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?p=3557519#post3557519

 

[ari89]

Hey cool...this thread still exists and people still post in it. Maybe we should continue to discuss the issue here not in a new single point thread?

 

[sams057]

Hey, see this thread for the answer: http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?p=3557519#post3557519

ok if it was written down, but i really don't see any why she has to do it when she types since there is no way for it to be defaced and/or scribbled

 

[sams057]

Um... you completely missed the point I was trying to make.

i dont give a fuck about the point you were trying to make (operative word trying) MY point is that you said einstein was anti-islamic without no basis or evidence to support it...you just threw in a famous jew's name in and so ohh he was anti-islamic...give me proof he was...i gave you proof he wasn't...he was actually anti-religion (and against the state of israel), nothing against islam in particular...so my point is stop making false claims about things you don't know about..get it now troll?

 

[ari89]

Yew soooo stoopiiid

 

[RohanZ]

i dont give a fuck about the point you were trying to make (operative word trying) MY point is that you said einstein was anti-islamic without no basis or evidence to support it...you just threw in a famous jew's name in and so ohh he was anti-islamic...give me proof he was...i gave you proof he wasn't...he was actually anti-religion (and against the state of israel), nothing against islam in particular...so my point is stop making false claims about things you don't know about..get it now troll?

ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND? HE DID NOT SAY EINSTEIN WAS ANTI-ISLAMIC. HE SAID HE WAS INCLINED TOWARDS JEWS SUCH AS EINSTEIN.

caps*

 

[ari89]

ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND? HE DID NOT SAY EINSTEIN WAS ANTI-ISLAMIC. HE SAID HE WAS INCLINED TOWARDS JEWS SUCH AS EINSTEIN.

caps*

I used to hope he was just blind. But after watching him post I believe it is that he is just absolutely insane and stupid.

 

[RohanZ]

I used to hope he was just blind. But after watching him post I believe it is that he is just absolutely insane and stupid.

ugh, the sheer level of ignorance is horrible.