left and right wingers - im confused! (1 Viewer)

[chubbaraff]

Oh ok, but does that make Hitler a left winger for fundamentally being open to change germany or stalin a right winger for resisting the revolutionary politics of trotsky?

 

[Jonathan A]

Oh ok, but does that make Hitler a left winger for fundamentally being open to change germany or stalin a right winger for resisting the revolutionary politics of trotsky?

It would in sociological sense. See many people argue Hitler was left wing, his application was rather radical, but conservative if you view that he was restoring Germany's glory. Stalin is often viewed as being right wing, despite running a 'communist' state.

 

[loquasagacious]

Actually Hitler falls into a category jonathan left out. Regressives. Hitler wanted to return Germany to its former glory, he wanted to turn back the clock. He repealed the rights/freedoms women had (pre-hitler/post-WWI they were the free-est women in the world), the nazi party re-introduced sun and season worship.

There are many more examples.

Basically moving from left to right.

A Radical wants to completely re-model society believing it to be flawed at its very core, so much so as to need re-building from the ground up.

A progressive believes society to be basically good but that small changes need to be made here and there.

A conservative believes that society is better than it was and as good as it'll get, they favour the status quo and are highly resistant to change.

A regressive is usually an ex-conservative whose position has moved as time as passed and there views havn't changed. They essentially want to return to the good old days when evrything was perfect because they believe that the direction society has gone since the golden days is fundamentally wrong.

 

[Comrade nathan]

the nazi party re-introduced sun and season worship.

Really? Have you got a source?

I found that very bizare. I would assum they would mould it with a state worship.

 

[chubbaraff]

Funny this conversation is...pity our parliament doesnt seat people in this way though, I was looking at the Italian parliament and the communists sit on the end of the left and the prefascists on the right and the greens on the centre left with the social democrats, its actually done that way..not that that has anything to sdo with the discussion. Im not so sure about tthose categories though, do they originate from the Original French plan or what.. when did they come up, coz I guess I still like the method of left or right or reactionary.

 

[loquasagacious]

Oops I may have been meaning to say reactionary not regressive.

The term right and left does indeed come from france where people sat to the right of the king if they liked him and the left if they didn't. Personally it doesn't sound very smart much like saying people who want to be beheaded stand over there.

We covered nazi suppression of religion in Modern History, I don't have that stuff with me now however a quick google reveals:

Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion,"

"Take over the churches from within, using party sympathizers. Discredit, jail or kill Christian leaders. And re-indoctrinate the congregants. Give them a new faith – in Germany's Third Reich."

Hitler made certain the church was well under his thumb and in support of his crackpot racial dogmas. One group of Nazi ideologues who had infiltrated German churches went by the mundane moniker, "German Christians," almost as if they were holding themselves aloft as the standard by which fellow Germans should judge true Christianity. They were no such thing, recommending as they did scrapping the entire Old Testament and including the insidious "Aryan Paragraph."

The ideologues prevailed, and the churches voted into their confessions the paragraph, which barred from the pastorate any Jewish converts or those married to Jews. The misnamed German Christians argued, in radical disagreement with the Scriptures, that Jews could not be saved. Their goal, in short, was to undermine the Scriptures and doctrinal standards in favor of Nazi propaganda. The party line was to become the 28th book of the New Testament, the Gospel according to Adolf.

The German christians peddled a pretty perverted interpretation of christianity including the idea of a nordic christ.

Some liberal christian ministers founded the confessional church to escape religious persecution however they were hunted down and killed.

Hitler did personally dispise protestants believing them to be little people who sweated in his pressence. Hitler was raised a catholic and early on a concordat was signed with Pope Plus XII. However the Pope did repeal this (though he never condemed the final solution).

[quoue=http://retroplanet.net/2germanswing.html]Sun worship by naked youngsters was openly encouraged, and it was permissible for a girl to exhibit her body in “natural German settings” completely unclothed to strangers.[/quote]

The nazi idea of blood and soil was celebrated in new re-invigorated harvest festivals.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find any pictures of the sun worshipping, suffice to say that the nazi party planned on eliminating all religion replacing it with pagan/state worship.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." -Adolf Hitler

 

[Jonathan A]

Actually Hitler falls into a category jonathan left out. Regressives. Hitler wanted to return Germany to its former glory, he wanted to turn back the clock. He repealed the rights/freedoms women had (pre-hitler/post-WWI they were the free-est women in the world), the nazi party re-introduced sun and season worship.

There are many more examples.

Basically moving from left to right.

A Radical wants to completely re-model society believing it to be flawed at its very core, so much so as to need re-building from the ground up.

A progressive believes society to be basically good but that small changes need to be made here and there.

A conservative believes that society is better than it was and as good as it'll get, they favour the status quo and are highly resistant to change.

A regressive is usually an ex-conservative whose position has moved as time as passed and there views havn't changed. They essentially want to return to the good old days when evrything was perfect because they believe that the direction society has gone since the golden days is fundamentally wrong.

You can't really put them on the right - left wing scale.

 

[Jonathan A]

Funny this conversation is...pity our parliament doesnt seat people in this way though, I was looking at the Italian parliament and the communists sit on the end of the left and the prefascists on the right and the greens on the centre left with the social democrats, its actually done that way..not that that has anything to sdo with the discussion. Im not so sure about tthose categories though, do they originate from the Original French plan or what.. when did they come up, coz I guess I still like the method of left or right or reactionary.

Not all members of the ALP are left wing, and not all members of the Liberal Party are right wing.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well i think it's odd that most encyclopedias will tell you that japan, italy and germany were all just basically facists during ww2...
I think it's pretty ignorant of the major differences between the groups.

 

[Jonathan A]

Well i think it's odd that most encyclopedias will tell you that japan, italy and germany were all just basically facists during ww2...
I think it's pretty ignorant of the major differences between the groups.

Last time i debated on this, it was a political forum and we ended up drawing diagrams to prove our point.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

which was?

 

[LadyBec]

oh wow diagrams
I think the original poster was looking more for a general guide to establish the main differences then a massive debate on the various differences...

 

[Jonathan A]

The debate was on www.insidepolitics.com.au - the diagrams were demonstrations of how the philosophy structures left/right wing on a scale.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

exact url if u have it plz?

 

[loquasagacious]

Correct right and left is an imposition upon the spectrum. Generally speaking though radicals are far left, progressive's moderate left, conservatives moderate right, reactionaries hard right.