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London Explosion (2 Viewers)

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Alimoe_KG

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berry580 said:
You're a f**king idiot, who expects islamic extremists to sit on their hands, and let the western powers to get their own way, and you think that everything that westerns do is justified? Get your head screwed on!

Yes, Bin Ladin and Bin Weffewwqfwfqwqfdqwd shouldn't retaliate against westerners

NOW BACK TO THE REAL WORLD

What you say and what I say, is just as true, except there's more westerners here, so it'll be apparent who'll get more support. But that doesn't determine who's "right".
I expect islamic extremists to go blow themselves up somewhere where there are no people, animals or anything else worthier than them :)

But if you mean, islamic people who want to lead an ordinary life abiding by the religious rules of the Koran, than yes, we shouldn't expect them to sit on their hands and accept american imperialism.

We're not saying the war on Iraq is right. But neither is the insurgency by the looks of it since the only thing they seem to be achieving is killing innocent Iraqis while offsetting the transferral of power from the coalition BACK INTO IRAQI HANDS.

And i don't get what your sarcasm about Bin ladin not retaliating against westerners.
To my knowledge, the war on iraq and Afghan invasion occurred AFTER 9/11. So what was Bin ladin retaliating against? American cultural imperalism? rofl that is so overrated. American intervention in middle east affairs? Hmmm perhaps. But i don't think that deserved a terrorist strike.

And i'm not speaking as a westerner. I am speaking as a person who sees common sense and the potential for peace in the midst of senseless killing.
 
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Sweets

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Slide Rule said:
So we should all wallow in postmodern angst because we can't decide on anything anymore? :rolleyes:
I think when people start saying things such as 'Yes, Bin Ladin and Bin Weffewwqfwfqwqfdqwd shouldn't retaliate against westerners' the whole discussion renders any relevance or purpose.
 

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anti-mathmite said:
I'm actually starting to see the terrorists point of view now thanks to this idiot "withoutaface".
He's not an idiot and as to dismissing his opinions as 'left', I should mention that he is more on your side of the political spectrum than you think.

Please try and respect your adversaries - if they are reasonable, which most people are, they will respect you also.
 

berry580

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Airness said:
We're not saying the war on Iraq is right. But neither is the insurgency by the looks of it since the only thing they seem to be achieving is killing innocent Iraqis while offsetting the transferral of power from the coalition BACK INTO IRAQI HANDS.
I don't have any inside news, and I can't dish out proven "facts". But chances are, this "transferral of power from the coalition BACK INTO IRAQI HANDS" is more likely to be in "Iraqis who's in favor of American's" hands.
And then the Americans have achieved in what they're aiming for.

And i don't get what your sarcasm about Bin ladin not retaliating against westerners.
To my knowledge, the war on iraq and Afghan invasion occurred AFTER 9/11. So what was Bin ladin retaliating against? American cultural imperalism? rofl that is so overrated. American intervention in middle east affairs? Hmmm perhaps. But i don't think that deserved a terrorist strike.
Well that was a "semi-joke" to make my post to resemble something.

To my knowledge, Bin Laden attacked America because of their political and military influence in the Middle East for American's interest which isn't in their favor.

http://www.publicdomainprogress.info/2003/12/why-was-america-attacked-on-911.html


As I expected, the Americans and her allies did much more than just Afghan and Iraq War.

(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.

(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.

(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.

(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

..................................Read the rest by going in that link
 

withoutaface

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Berry you still haven't justified your signature in light of this comment:
berry said:
How the @#$% would anyone know what's been sold to Iraq?
You'd seem to be contradicting yourself.
 

berry580

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withoutaface said:
Berry you still haven't justified your signature in light of this comment:


You'd seem to be contradicting yourself.
You assume things.

America sold ALOTS of weapons to Iraq (given by the debt the Iraqis owe the Americans after the Iraq-Iran War), and it wouldn't be out of the question even if biological/chemical was part of the deal.
Even if America didn't, then what about her allies? One of them must have sold WMD to Iraq. Why didn't America disarm France, Britain and Russia?

Besides, even the 9/11 atack was assumed to be linked to Bin Laden. There was no solid proof that it was Bin Laden who planned it.
But does it matter?
 

withoutaface

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He claimed the attacks were his, if somebody in a court of law decides to plead guilty for a crime they will serve punishment for it.
 

Alimoe_KG

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neo_o said:
My club is cooler
Yup, i'm joining that one.

And Berry? When you said this:

"I don't have any inside news, and I can't dish out proven "facts". But chances are, this "transferral of power from the coalition BACK INTO IRAQI HANDS" is more likely to be in "Iraqis who's in favor of American's" hands.
And then the Americans have achieved in what they're aiming for."

I don't know. But personally, i think America just wants to see some form of democracy in Iraq established as early as possible so it can get the fuck out of there. And maybe they will get some strong political influence as a result. But personally, i prefer democracy over dictatorship. But i doubt America would get much, in light of the international backlash and the strong antipathy Iraqis feel for American occupation.

I think America just wants to see a democratic government (as democratic as possible) set up so they can say "well, we failed to find WMDs BUT we did put up a democracy :D:D:D. Their main purpose was to dispose of saddam most likely and now the job is done, i think what they're focusing on is just getting the hell out of there but leaving behind somehting that justifies the invasion as much as possible.

Meh. :)
 

berry580

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withoutaface said:
He claimed the attacks were his, if somebody in a court of law decides to plead guilty for a crime they will serve punishment for it.
Sorry, but can you clarify in how your statement relates to our topic?

Btw, is the sig of Asquithian the picture of "anti-mathmite"?
 

withoutaface

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You asked what proof we have that it was bin Laden, I replied by saying that his admission of guilt is all the proof we need.
 

berry580

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withoutaface said:
He released those videos, didn't he?
Even the Americans released some videos of their attack on Bin Laden's camp in Afghan on 1998 because the Americans claim Bin Laden was behind a terror attack but without solid proof.

There was videos bombings of Baghdad, why isn't Bush on his way to prison? :confused:
You asked what proof we have that it was bin Laden, I replied by saying that his admission of guilt is all the proof we need.
Well that suggests he did it, but they're not solid proof.

I think he admitted (DON'T quote me on this, as I'm not sure) that he planned the 9/11 attack, but that was after the Afghan War started (i think).
 

withoutaface

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Because Bush's attacks were not specifically aimed at civilians.
 

sweetXinsanity

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HeartLEss

There was a time when shit like this wouldn't necessarily happen, atleast not without a bloody good reason.
But nowadays, bombs and shooters rule this world purely for killing, training to kill, or killing for what some povo country thinks is honour.

However, what I found deeply disturbing about the London bombings is that is was planned sooo carefully... Too carefully
Like think about it..
They hit the trains first, a hell alot of people died there alone, then the people who managed to escape on their own without medical assistance went down the streets and some got onto the number 30 bus, only then to have it bombed!!
1/ This totally just defeated the purpose of them getting out of the train tube to start off with because the majority or them were destined to end up being blown to bits on a bus, just when they felt a tiny milo second of relief and safety.
2/ The fact that someone who planned to do such a inhumane thing could have possibly anticipated this sort of occurance, so they went for another shot, disgusts me and scares me to the point of shock and horror.
What sort of world are we liviing in?
A Mass Murdering One!!! :chainsaw: :chainsaw: :chainsaw:
I say we leave this planet and go live on Mars...NASA tells us theres no aliens to kill us off, so we may as well live there and take our chance with finding air to live on.. if we do die and we have a 5000% chance of that happening in space. atleast it will be a more peaceful death lol.
These have been the ramblings of a sick, bored person who's been taking too many whooping cough pills... :p
Carry on....
-Adina
 

berry580

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withoutaface said:
Because Bush's attacks were not specifically aimed at civilians.
Nope, his aim is only to destabilies the WHOLE nation of Iraq, DIRECTLY control Iraq's oil (i.e NOW), then indirectly control Iraqi's oil via the figure head they installed.
So which is worst?
Start a war to achieve American's aim or kill a few hundred people to achieve Al Qaeda's aims?

In the short term perspective, Al Qaeda would probably look to be the "evil" one especially just after an attack.
But countries like UK is a million times worst.
Just look at Kuwait/Iraq's map.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/factbook/maps/ku-150.jpg
The British made the border line like this on purpose, what conspiracy is it? What conflict do they want to occur there?

So who's the "real" "evil" one? Please reconsider.
 

withoutaface

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berry580 said:
Nope, his aim is only to destabilies the WHOLE nation of Iraq, DIRECTLY control Iraq's oil (i.e NOW), then indirectly control Iraqi's oil via the figure head they installed.
So which is worst?
Start a war to achieve American's aim or kill a few hundred people to achieve Al Qaeda's aims?

In the short term perspective, Al Qaeda would probably look to be the "evil" one especially just after an attack.
But countries like UK is a million times worst.
Just look at Kuwait/Iraq's map.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/factbook/maps/ku-150.jpg
The British made the border line like this on purpose, what conspiracy is it? What conflict do they want to occur there?

So who's the "real" "evil" one? Please reconsider.
All oil still has to go through OPEC, which is completely independent of the US.
 

withoutaface

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wikipedia said:
The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) is made up of Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela; since 1965, its international headquarters have been in Vienna, Austria. The organization's purpose is to negotiate with oil companies on matters of petroleum production, prices, and future concession rights.
. .
 
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