Long-un strategies for NUS (yet another VSU thread) (2 Viewers)

[iamsickofyear12]

I'm 100% willing to fund childcare. There SHOULD be a compulsary childcare fund.

I'm not. Why should I pay for someone elses kids. If I ever have kids I don't expect other people to pay for them.

 

[leetom]

I'm not. Why should I pay for someone elses kids. If I ever have kids I don't expect other people to pay for them.

Fortunately, even the hardest of Liberals recognise the need for some level of societal support for working/studying mothers with young children and other such people in need.

 

[Phanatical]

This is what our student fees pay for:

WOMEN’S PARTICIPATION IN STUDENT ORGANISATIONS – Action

1) NUS will:
iv. Encourage and assist member campus student organisations to adhere to the guidelines for running elections and selecting observers contained in the document ‘Promoting Women’s involvement in Student Unions’ when conducting elections for NUS delegates and selecting observers to NUS Conference. Further, NUS recognises the need for Women’s Officers as an integral party of student organisations, and commends to its members that:
v. where they do not exist, women’s officer positions be established within an appropriate structure, recognising the need for consultation with women students on campus;
vi. student unions and their student office-bearers ensure that women’s officers are given administrative and other support, and are kept informed of the activities and projects that the organisation undertakes;
vii. the position of women’s officer should be vigorously defended against any threat or attack;
viii. Women’s officers should be accorded the space and time to determine the priorities and projects that will best serve women members of that organisation.
ix. Actively promote the equal participation of women in student unions by supporting the implementation of affirmative action policies at all levels of student organisations.
x. Disapprove of any moves toward campus Women’s Departments becoming Equity Departments. NUS believes this is not merely a renaming, but it, in effect, the abolition of a Women’s Department and the creation of an equity department in its place, effectively meaning that resources on campus are redirected, away from women students.
xi. Condemn any move by any campus toward the implementation of a ‘Men’s Officer’ position at any campus student organisation. The position of Women’s Officers is primarily and fundamentally in existence because the inequality of our society impacts directly upon the participation of women in higher education. Women have significantly less access to higher education than men, and face many more barriers to their participation in higher education than men do. These are issues that affect women at universities disproportionately to their effect on men. Some of these issues are childcare, safety on campus, sexual harassment, discrimination, gender inclusive language.
xii. A Women’s Officer portfolio is not sexist because women are a disadvantaged group. A Women’s Officer is a positive step toward equality in our higher education system, but a Men’s Officer is symptomatic of a backlash society and indicative of the ignorance of the importance and role of Women’s Officer as an important education portfolio in campus student organisations and within NUS.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Fortunately, even the hardest of Liberals recognise the need for some level of societal support for working/studying mothers with young children and other such people in need.

Yeah I understand that there is a need for support, but that doesn't make me personally willing to pay for it.

 

[Korn]

No idividual should be getting anything more out of the Union than another, but as a member of a society he/she probably is, due to the general social interaction.

The problem with giving VSU 'a chance' as I think Tully put it earlier is that VSU does not allow for something like, say, maintaing universal unionism but cutting the annual payment and spending more effeciently, it gives students the oppurtunity to do away with any union contribution whatsoever. The Union cannot possibly reform when the threat of total destruction is such a possibility, especially when the only people continuing to contribute towards the Union will be the old-school Student Unionists who will fight any re-structuring of the Union.

To Korn, who is VSU because he hasn't joined any society, and thus believes that he shouldn't have to pay Union contributions, a re-structuring of the Union can probably cater to your i-hate-uni-fun stance. People such as yourself, who do not intend to join any of the clubs (why you havn't joined any political society I don't know) could, for example, be allowed to be exempt from the Union contribution.

Of course, such people should have their names publisised around campus regularly as fun-haters and anti-uni-enjoyment scum.

Actually im a member of Young Labour, and it isnt funded by my uni it requires a joining fee

 

[Phanatical]

You'll find that most clubs and societies require joining fees. Because the Union can't afford to have free memberships.

 

[Korn]

perhaps, is that really true (anyone studying eco who isn't extremely bias against the labor party??)
it's still the type of deception that undermines the sense of democracy though

Yes, Being a Young Labor member, I can concur without bias with NTB, historically interest rates rise with Labor in power, but as the RBA control interest rates and generally in relation to what the US do in a way.

 

[Korn]

May i point out that you pro-VSU people have NO refutation to make against the loss of universal student representation and on campus welfare support.

so i guess your support is a big fuck you to anyone who needs childcare??

Doesnt the government through Centrelink (an invention of Labor, well originally) provide child support payments that can be used for childcare? What about these ppls parents or grandparent why cant they mind the kids?

 

[walrusbear]

Doesnt the government through Centrelink (an invention of Labor, well originally) provide child support payments that can be used for childcare? What about these ppls parents or grandparent why cant they mind the kids?

it's not so much these 'payments' but the union provides on campus facilities that won't be funded anymore
your last point is kinda grasping at straws

 

[Korn]

it's not so much these 'payments' but the union provides on campus facilities that won't be funded anymore
your last point is kinda grasping at straws

Why is it grasping at straws, its an alternative and IMO a better alternative, as it is cheaper, better for the child as they can bond and are cared for by family and not some stranger, and the parents dont have to worry that the child might be in danger or something

 

[walrusbear]

Why is it grasping at straws, its an alternative and IMO a better alternative, as it is cheaper, better for the child as they can bond and are cared for by family and not some stranger, and the parents dont have to worry that the child might be in danger or something

it's not that it's a bad idea it's just kinda provisional don't you think?
i'm sure many people would do this if they could, it's not exactly a welfare policy or anything.
technically you can offer these alternatives to a lot of services but it misses the point

 

[Korn]

it's not that it's a bad idea it's just kinda provisional don't you think?
i'm sure many people would do this if they could, it's not exactly a welfare policy or anything.
technically you can offer these alternatives to a lot of services but it misses the point

How so isnt the point looking after children and supporting parents, which through no fees for childcare as they are being cared for by family & in conjuction with VSU, gives students who are parents the ability to keep more of their pay cheques does

 

[Sarah]

Doesnt the government through Centrelink (an invention of Labor, well originally) provide child support payments that can be used for childcare? What about these ppls parents or grandparent why cant they mind the kids?

Well unfortunately, not everyone has their parents and grandparents to support them. Whilst it's true that having family look after kids is beneficial to the child, not all students have a strong support network which they can rely on.

 

[walrusbear]

How so isnt the point looking after children and supporting parents, which through no fees for childcare as they are being cared for by family & in conjuction with VSU, gives students who are parents the ability to keep more of their pay cheques does

but by provisional i mean it only works provided people actually have parents or family willing to support this (which unfortunately many don't). it's not really a policy worth pursuing.
are you sure you knew what you were heading into when you joined Young Labor?
you seem to want to avoid collective support for welfare at any chance?...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Universities should have free childcare. You deserve an education even if you get pregnant...
I can't believe that some people (imsickofyear12) could actually ATTEMPT to justify a stance where it's "I don't give a shit about ur kids!", it's probably somewhere around $2 from every student to provide childcare to those who need it...

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Universities should have free childcare. You deserve an education even if you get pregnant...
I can't believe that some people (imsickofyear12) could actually ATTEMPT to justify a stance where it's "I don't give a shit about ur kids!", it's probably somewhere around $2 from every student to provide childcare to those who need it...

If you don't have the ability to stay home and watch your kids, have someone to watch them for you or the ability to pay for childcare you have no business having kids in the first place.

 

[Phanatical]

That's actually a pretty good point. If you can't give your kids quality of life, then you shouldn't have had them in the first place. That said, if they do happen, society has to take responsibility for taking care of these kids.

 

[withoutaface]

I think that there should be a large level of subsidisation (up to 75% or so) of child care, but I'm not sure if it should be free (not sure if it even is at the moment, but I get the impression from others that it is) because I feel that a certain level of responsibility for their own children should fall upon the parents' shoulders.

 

[leetom]

If you don't have the ability to stay home and watch your kids, have someone to watch them for you or the ability to pay for childcare you have no business having kids in the first place.

People work. You can't just demand a relative to look after your child. It's unfair. If women adhered to your view of childbirth, they would not be having children until they had 'the ability to pay for childcare'. My point is that delaying childbirth is at odds with a chief Liberal Party goal, which is urging women to have more children. (One for the father, one for the mother, nation etc..)

As you have expressed yourself as a Liberal Party supporter, I find your stance on childbirth stupid.

Also, childcare is very expensive and more importantly, there is massive shortage in childcare places, so even if a student mother can afford childcare, she probably won't be able to find a place. Which is why childcare facilities exist on campus, funded by student contributions.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes, that's all well and good - and - yes, perhaps childcare shouldn't be ENTIRELY free.
However;
If you DO have kids, you need support. Sure I too believe you shouldn't have kids under these circumstances, however If you do have kids, you deserve support.