Man to be 'crucified' for raping 5 children (1 Viewer)

[Cookie182]

Sharia law is not logical.

It begins with the first proposition:

"Assume the islamic god exists..."

Edit: As a secularist & humanist, my actual theological position is irrelevant. I think that all Australians, irrespective of thier religion should reject such a concept. I am outrightly sickened by the "moral relativism" that we constantly face:

"Oh you can NEVER understand the middle east because your lied to by the media",
"or the original texts in Arabic have been changed when they are in english",
"we can't judge their culture, they are 400 yrs behind Christianity blah blah"

Are these sayings sounding familar people? They are alll rubbish apologetics, interwined with conspiracy BS, defending a depravating legal system.

Sharia law is an inherently violent, oppressive mind-regime that is sneaking into the backdoor of western politics while "soft-liners" and even Christian leaders alike (who are worried about "multi-faith dialogue) allow it to occur (look at Britian, several parts of Europe now allowing sharia civil courts). It is incompatible with democracy, it is incompatible with freedom and incompatible with this century.

I submit to you, go over to the Middle East and expect the same "relativism", the same acceptance of your own cultural/religious practices: it doesn't exist. There is a dangerous double standard here people.

Ironically people go "oh your anti-muslim/racist", no, in fact it is the secularist who is the only person DEFENDING their right to freedom of practice, privacy and ultimately consciousness.

 

[Cookie182]

Here is a group of Muslims who are at least accepting the need for worldwide reform. Note, as much I support their mission, they will struggle to ever get anywhere. "Moderates" struggle to really have any voice in the M.E., they are really just as much of a target of terroism as are non-muslims.

OUR GOALS
to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed
to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists)
to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror



OUR MANIFESTO
Acknowledging mistakes
The majority of the terrorist acts of the last three decades, including the 9/11 attacks, were perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists in the name of Islam. We, as Muslims, find it abhorrent that Islam is used to murder millions of innocent people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Inconsistencies in the Koran
Unfortunately, Islamic religious texts, including the Koran and the Hadith contain many passages, which call for Islamic domination and incite violence against non-Muslims. It is time to change that. Muslim fundamentalists believe that the Koran is the literal word of Allah. But could Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate, command mass slaughter of people whose only fault is being non-Muslim?

The Koran & the Bible
Many Bible figures from Adam to Jesus (Isa) are considered to be prophets and are respected by Islam. Islamic scholars however believe that both the Old and the New Testament came from God, but that they were corrupted by the Jews and Christians over time. Could it be possible that the Koran itself was corrupted by Muslims over the last thirteen centuries?

The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by Hassan al-Banna, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.

Accepting responsibilities
To start the healing process, we must acknowledge evils done by Muslims in the name of Islam and accept responsibility for those evils. We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts, so that future generations of Muslims will not be confused by conflicting messages. Our religious message should be loud and clear: Islam is peace; Islam is love; Islam is light. War, murder, violence, divisiveness & discrimination are not Islamic values.

Religious privacy
Religion is the private matter of every individual. Any person should be able to freely practice any religion as long as the practice does not interfere with the local laws, and no person must be forced to practice any religion. Just as people are created equal, there is no one religion that is superior to another. Any set of beliefs that is spread by force is fundamentally immoral; it is no longer a religion, but a political ideology.

Equality
Islam is one of the many of the world's religions. There will be no Peace and Harmony in the World if Muslims and non-Muslims do not have equal rights. Islamic supremacy doctrine is just as repulsive as Aryan supremacy doctrine. History clearly shows what happens to the society whose members consider themselves above other peoples. All moderate Muslims must repudiate the mere notion of Islamic supremacy.

Sharia
Sharia Law must be abolished, because it is incompatible with norms of modern society.

Outdated practices
Any practices that might have been acceptable in the Seventh Century; i.e., stoning, cutting off body parts, marrying and/or having sex with children or animals, must be condemned by every Muslim.

Outdated verses
The following verses promote divisiveness and religious hatred, bigotry and discrimination. They must be either removed from the Koran or declared outdated and invalid, and marked as such.

Outdated words & phrases
Use of the following words and phrases or their variations must be prohibited during religious services:
• Infidel / Unbeliever: these terms have negative connotation and promote divisiveness and animosity; Islam is not the only religion
• Jihad: this word is often interpreted as Holy War against non-Muslims
• Mujaheed / Holy Warrior: no more wars in the name of Islam
• American (Christian / Crusader / Israeli / Zionist) occupation: these terms promote bigotry; at this point in time, Muslims living in non-Muslim lands have more freedoms than Muslims living in Muslim lands

Islam vs. violence
Islam has no place for violence. Any person calling for an act of violence in the name of Islam must be promptly excommunicated. Any grievances must be addressed by lawful authorities. It is the religious and civic duty of every Muslim to unconditionally condemn any act of terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam. Any Muslim group that has ties to terrorism in any way, shape, or form, must be universally condemned by both religious and secular Muslims.

Portrayal of Prophets
While portrayal of Prophets is not an acceptable practice in Islam could be personally offensive to some Muslims, other religions do not have such restrictions. Therefore, the portrayal of the Prophets must be treated as a manifestation of free expression.

The Crusades vs. The Inquisition
While the Inquisition was a repulsive practice by Christian Fundamentalists, the Crusades were not unprovoked acts of aggression, but rather attempts to recapture formerly Christian lands controlled by Muslims.

I'm calling all muslims [Aussie muslims] to read it and say, yes we agree.

If you don't, please leave this country.

Muslims Against Sharia

Edit: Many Christians also need to have a long, hard think and write up a similar credo.

 

[4theHSC]

Here is a group of Muslims who are at least accepting the need for worldwide reform. Note, as much I support their mission, they will struggle to ever get anywhere. "Moderates" struggle to really have any voice in the M.E., they are really just as much of a target of terroism as are non-muslims.



I'm calling all muslims [Aussie muslims] to read it and say, yes we agree.

If you don't, please leave this country.

Muslims Against Sharia

Edit: Many Christians also need to have a long, hard think and write up a similar credo.

Firstly your way off topic, secondly your turning this to another 'hate islam' thread and thirdly you don't even know what your talking about.

The man should be killed... Raped 5 children and left them for dead? beheading is thought to be a very fast way of dying anyway

 

[Cookie182]

Firstly your way off topic, secondly your turning this to another 'hate islam' thread and thirdly you don't even know what your talking about.

The man should be killed... Raped 5 children and left them for dead? beheading is thought to be a very fast way of dying anyway

Please do yourself the service of deleting this post.

To turn around and say I'm making a "hate Islam" thread simply shows you have not read at all what I posted and further amplifies my point that the mainstream Australian response to any criticism of Islam is "shut up you can't say that."

Why should he be killed? Are you satisfied of the facts, of the quality of their legal system and procedures? Are you satisfied in regards to the possible state of his mental health?

The honest answer to these questions should be no. Until then, please shut the fuck up.

 

[Cookie182]

Also the word "hate" is completely stupid in the context of a philosophy (religion is a philosophy).

Do you "hate" utilitarinism, Kantian ethics?

I think all religions are fundamentally wrong, self-contradictory and erroneous.

If I had to use the word "hate", I would use it as an expression of my disappointment that such ideologies are so widespread and respected in todays context. I generally view most religious adherents as being constrained from reaching their full intellectual potential, particularly the majority who are never taught to question anything and blindly accept dogma.

So if you must use the word, I admit that I hate Islam as much as I hate Christianity or any other religious system. This says nothing about my respect for the actual followers as people nor their right to practice it, which I fully defend.

 

[4theHSC]

Please do yourself the service of deleting this post.

To turn around and say I'm making a "hate Islam" thread simply shows you have not read at all what I posted and further amplifies my point that the mainstream Australian response to any criticism of Islam is "shut up you can't say that."

Why should he be killed? Are you satisfied of the facts, of the quality of their legal system and procedures? Are you satisfied in regards to the possible state of his mental health?

The honest answer to these questions should be no. Until then, please shut the fuck up.

Firstly I don't think implementing aspects of the saudi law should be implemented due to the different context and time, and I did read your posts and they mainly allure to the 'islam and violence' and 'lack of democracy and freedom' etc...

Secondly, it is none of our business how they precede with their legal systems, he raped 5 children and left them for dead, he should die, period.

 

[4theHSC]

Also the word "hate" is completely stupid in the context of a philosophy (religion is a philosophy).

Do you "hate" utilitarinism, Kantian ethics?

I think all religions are fundamentally wrong, self-contradictory and erroneous.

If I had to use the word "hate", I would use it as an expression of my disappointment that such ideologies are so widespread and respected in todays context. I generally view most religious adherents as being constrained from reaching their full intellectual potential, particularly the majority who are never taught to question anything and blindly accept dogma.

So if you must use the word, I admit that I hate Islam as much as I hate Christianity or any other religious system. This says nothing about my respect for the actual followers as people nor their right to practice it, which I fully defend.

No I don't, I respect all fields of religions and the positive values/morals that they bring about. I have a question, is atheism a religion? Some people say that its their belief of the non-existence of God while others say that they believe in God, just not religion.

 

[Cookie182]

Firstly I don't think implementing aspects of the saudi law should be implemented due to the different context and time, and I did read your posts and they mainly allure to the 'islam and violence' and 'lack of democracy and freedom' etc...

Secondly, it is none of our business how they precede with their legal systems, he raped 5 children and left them for dead, he should die, period.

1) Please explain again "implementing aspects of Saudi law should be implemented due to the different context and time". Are you arguing that rubbish relativism I mentioned earlier, you really didn't read my post did you?

2) Still no justification as to why he should be killed, really just a revelation of your barbarism.

You disgust me. It is the WORLD's business. Illusionary borders mean nothing, they are human beings and as another human being you SHOULD care how they treat each other. We have every bit of business criticising their legal system- thats how civilisation forwards itself.

Don't tell me your retarted enough to think mere geography separates moral obligations?

 

[emmcyclopedia]

No. Beheading is barbaric. We're just sinking to the level of the criminal, imo.

100% agree with this.
He is obviously a complete wanker, but I'm not a supporter of the death sentence.

Maybe just let him ponder his mistakes for 90 years in jail?
Compulsory counselling?

Yeah, so I dislike killing criminals, I believe it degrades us to their level. It's the perversion of basic human rights... not cool.

 

[Cookie182]

No I don't, I respect all fields of religions and the positive values/morals that they bring about. I have a question, is atheism a religion? Some people say that its their belief of the non-existence of God while others say that they believe in God, just not religion.

I think your brain must have been fried from the HSC, should I be bothering arguing here?

Please go and read about atheism. This question has been discussed at lengths on the forums. How can atheism (a default: there is no positive evidence for the existence of god, therefore I reject believing in it) be a religion (an organised set of beliefs conforming about a central god/s)?

Saying atheists believe in god is non-sensical. Note too, you could be agnostic and believe in god.

2) Religions are like any ideology, you believe in the "positive morals", well what are they in regrds to Islam and Sharia Law? Are we not free to critcise the "immoraility"?

You think the slaughter of another human being by the state is moral, irrespective of their crime?

 

[Cookie182]

100% agree with this.
He is obviously a complete wanker, but I'm not a supporter of the death sentence.

Maybe just let him ponder his mistakes for 90 years in jail?
Compulsory counselling?

Yeah, so I dislike killing criminals, I believe it degrades us to their level. It's the perversion of basic human rights... not cool.

The moral position.

 

[4theHSC]

1) Please explain again "implementing aspects of Saudi law should be reinforced due to the different context and time". Are you arguing that rubbish relativism I mentioned earlier, you really didn't read my post did you?

2) Still no justification as to why he should be killed, really just a revelation of your barbarism.

You disgust me. It is the WORLD's business. Illusionary borders mean nothing, they are human beings and as another human being you SHOULD care how they treat each other. We have every bit of business criticising their legal system- thats how civilisation forwards itself.

Don't tell me your retarted enough to think mere geography separates moral obligations?

1) The sharia law was established almost 1400 years ago, hence at that TIME it may have worked, however times have changed now, we are in the 21st century and hence it should not be implemented.
2) Are you crazy? there is no justification? he raped 5 children and left them for dead. Isn't that a reasonable justification for his death?

 

[4theHSC]

I think your brain must have been fried from the HSC, should I be bothering arguing here?

Please go and read about atheism. This question has been discussed at lengths on the forums. How can atheism (a default: there is no positive evidence for the existence of god, therefore I reject believing in it) be a religion (an organised set of beliefs conforming about a central god/s)?

Saying atheists believe in god is non-sensical. Note too, you could be agnostic and believe in god.

2) Religions are like any ideology, you believe in the "positive morals", well what are they in regrds to Islam and Sharia Law? Are we not free to critcise the "immoraility"?

You think the slaughter of another human being by the state is moral, irrespective of their crime?

LOL, I was only asking a question,, no need to get so defensive about it, and you are free to criticise whatever you like, I didn't say that you can't. It's kind of ironic however, that Atheists complain about religious groups reinforcing their ideals and values on them when they themselves try to implement their beliefs on others, am I wrong in that respect?

 

[Phoenix Fury]

I can't understand the mentality of those saying it isn't fair and it's his human right for him to live. He has committed a horrible crime and I believe raping one child should be worth the death penalty, let alone 5. He has disregarded the law and will face a just punishment.

 

[addikaye03]

The punishment justifies the crime.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

 

[Phoenix Fury]

^That's cool

 

[Cookie182]

LOL, I was only asking a question,, no need to get so defensive about it, and you are free to criticise whatever you like, I didn't say that you can't. It's kind of ironic however, that Atheists complain about religious groups reinforcing their ideals and values on them when they themselves try to implement their beliefs on others, am I wrong in that respect?

This statement made me disregard your post.

Go back and read my definition again.

What "beliefs" specifically defines atheism? How can they actually force these beliefs on others?

 

[Cookie182]

Disgusting.

Anyone that finds this amusing, deserving or even remotely ok is fucked in the head.

This is not humanity.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

your signature suggests that you are a libertarian yet you are pro execution via beheading. WTF