Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[tempco]

Sadly, there are many people from all walks of life who do not know what Shari'a law truly is (myself included). That said, I'm not one for a religious 'law', even one that is meant to be strikingly similar to the political values of today's Australia.

Shari'a law is a set of rules and laws that define Islam. It ranges from stating penalities for certain criminal acts, to how many times and when a Muslim must pray.

Costello, in his ignorance, outlawed the entirety of Shari'a law. In his opinion, his comments have nothing to do with whether or not a Muslim prays... but Shari'a law encompasses that aspect of a Muslim's life. I'm not surprised that many Muslims were offended by his statement... I was just disappointed at the lack of knowledge he had... if this issue was as big as posters here are suggesting, he should have at least done some homework.

 

[tempco]

Tell a newspaper - Tell the cops... the same goes for every assault case, if there's alot of them going on it'll start to be noticed. Now I'm not saying that it's not going on, I just think you're making it a much bigger thing than it is.

That's your opinion, and I have mine.

Ok 'harassment' is a big term, generally I'd say muslims are probably 'harassed' tonnes in society... but I'm specifically thinking of physical/sexual assault where I disagree with you.

If that's the case, then yes, there would be more cases of physical/sexual assault when it comes to middle-eastern guys and white girls. I mean, the contexts are totally different.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Shari'a law is a set of rules and laws that define Islam. It ranges from stating penalities for certain criminal acts, to how many times and when a Muslim must pray.

Shari'a law is supposed to be the law of god... which only god knows, and you guys make guesses about from the koran - it's easily abused. Given what these undefinable religious laws have come to be in the past, I can't see why you're against him being against it? Do you think he should be for it? or take a neutral position? He's a member of the executive branch of government of Australia.

Costello, in his ignorance, outlawed the entirety of Shari'a law. In his opinion, his comments have nothing to do with whether or not a Muslim prays... but Shari'a law encompasses that aspect of a Muslim's life.

Australian law comes before religious law and he's right for pointing that out.

I was just disappointed at the lack of knowledge he had... if this issue was as big as posters here are suggesting, he should have at least done some homework.

Are you sure that he had a lack of knowledge?

 

[Generator]

Shari'a law is a set of rules and laws that define Islam. It ranges from stating penalities for certain criminal acts, to how many times and when a Muslim must pray.

Costello, in his ignorance, outlawed the entirety of Shari'a law. In his opinion, his comments have nothing to do with whether or not a Muslim prays... but Shari'a law encompasses that aspect of a Muslim's life. I'm not surprised that many Muslims were offended by his statement... I was just disappointed at the lack of knowledge he had... if this issue was as big as posters here are suggesting, he should have at least done some homework.

In many ways I think that he was responding (possibly in ignorance) to those Muslims who seem to frame Shari'a Law as being nothing more than a set of immutable Islamic laws that are primarily concerned with notions of justice. Your point is taken, though.

Edit: But I do agree with both Costello and NTB that in Australia there is no place for religious law (in an institutional sense - if the individual wishes to abide by certain religious laws, there's nothing that anyone else can or should do, provided that their actions don't impinge upon the rights of others and the laws of the state).

Edit: I'm sorry if the above seems to suggest that you think otherwise - that wasn't my intention.

 

[veterandoggy]

Shari'a law is supposed to be the law of god... which only god knows, and you guys make guesses about from the koran - it's easily abused.

we dont make guesses about the qurans meaning, or at least the imams and sheiks that can actually stand up to their label. we interpret the quran according to how the prophet interpreted it (ie through ahadith and the prophet's actions). who knows what god meant better than the person god sent down his words to? and despite the trillions of ahadith that have appeared over the centuries, there has been enough properly confirmed ahadith to cover almost every aspect that the prophet covered.

Sadly, in the same sense that "muslim" sparks "terrorist" in people's minds, "shariah" sparks "death penalty, an eye for an eye, and whipping fornicators" in peoples minds, and they are unaware that it doesnt even cover a corner of shariah law, but then again, if it isnt practised properly in muslim countries then how are the uneducated muslims meant to know it, let alone the non-muslims.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

we dont make guesses about the qurans meaning, or at least the imams and sheiks that can actually stand up to their label. we interpret the quran according to how the prophet interpreted it (ie through ahadith and the prophet's actions).

Yea ok but you're still interpreting what the prophet said... and taking some hadiths and not others...

and despite the trillions of ahadith that have appeared over the centuries, there has been enough properly confirmed ahadith to cover almost every aspect that the prophet covered.

Yeah well but your idea of what 'perfect islam' is obviously differs to millions of other muslims... essentially what we have to look at is what operationally this law is - which is broadly whatever those in power want them to be..

If you want to talk about Shari'a law as also encompassing say... your every day religious doctrine (i.e. prayer) then I think that's actually a slightly different form of the law. See the problem is... you've got this idea of what Shari'a law is - but you can't actually prove that's what it is, so what we have to do is look at it operationally... just as I would do when analysing the laws of Australia.

 

[veterandoggy]

Yea ok but you're still interpreting what the prophet said... and taking some hadiths and not others...



Yeah well but your idea of what 'perfect islam' is obviously differs to millions of other muslims... essentially what we have to look at is what operationally this law is - which is broadly whatever those in power want them to be..

If you want to talk about Shari'a law as also encompassing say... your every day religious doctrine (i.e. prayer) then I think that's actually a slightly different form of the law. See the problem is... you've got this idea of what Shari'a law is - but you can't actually prove that's what it is, so what we have to do is look at it operationally... just as I would do when analysing the laws of Australia.

if you got news from countless sources that a guy is RENOWNED for fabricating hadith, would you consider a hadith with him in the narration chain to be certainly true?

my idea of a perfect islam differs, but for legitimate reasons. the same way you look for proof when you are shown information we look for proof of authenticity. and it wasnt a guy off the block that determined authenticity, it was imams that sweat blood to get the ahadith. Bukhari (i think it was him) stayed searching for a guy for a month because he heard that the guy had a hadith. when he did find him he saw the man fool his steed by beckoning him to come to a feed bag which was empty, so that the man could capture the steed. bukhari after that went away, because he said that if the man fooled the horse/donkey he might try to fool him too.

my idea of a perfect islam ahs to be the only way, because if someone showed me a way that contradicted my way of islam, and couldnt show me an authentic hadith to support them, then something is wrong. of course, if they did pull out an authentic hadith, then i would embrace it until i found out more about it, because the prophet did do stuff contrary at times, like saying that it is better for us to perform ablution after eating food which has been touched by fire (barbecues), but on an occasion he ate food touched by fire then went to pray without performing ablution (he already had ablution, this just meant that ablution was not a compulsory thing, only a preferred thing).

 

[dawma88]

Bump !

 

[veterandoggy]

???

more like "1 more for your post count!"

hehe. one for you... one for me...

 

[tempco]

An interesting radio interview on the topic of Muslim women and the hijab/burqa/niqab/etc.

Sending Signals: the Meaning of Hijab

Link: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/rearvision/stories/2006/1569761.htm

MP3: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/feeds/rvn_20060219.mp3

 

[dilroy]

I took my girlfriend out to bankstown Shopping Centre the other day just minding my own business and following her around as usual. Well then suddenly we were at this clothing shop and I was kind of tired as well... I turned around and thought I saw a ghost, I totally freaked out and jumped and screamed "FUCK!" I then realised it was a Muslim lady wearing one of those "head-to-toe hijabs with the eye patches". My heart was pounding fast and my girlfriend along with the staff in the department store were just laughing at me.

 

[shady_03]

Anyone see that segment on today tonight where that muslim chick was scared because her parents didnt want her seeing her white christian boyfriend? Apparently they threateend to kidnap her and stab her b/f. Wat i dont understand is that a friend told me, if ur muslim and ur bf/gf isnt, then u can marry as long they convert 2 islam. So wat the fuk is the big deal with these "muslim only" obsessed parents???

 

[Pubert]

What if you turned around and saw a jewish man with the full traditional clothes, long side burns, the big black hat and a long black robe, would you believe this to be confronting? How about if you saw a nun in full traditional clothing covering her whole body?
Perhaps you exagerated your reaction but i don't see anything wrong with people wearing traditional and cultural clothes, it allows people to learn about each others culture and beliefs and furthur stregthens multiculturalism.

 

[shady_03]

Tru mathmite... but i dont really see the point in parents being racially intolerant towards this issue when they come 2 australia, a place that embraces multiculturalism and lets them freely express their religion. Seems ironic really.... "ill go 2 a place full of different cultures but want my kids 2 only marry into 1 religion" ..

 

[physician]

@ dilroy, Ahahaha, lol

well it would have been kind of funny u know, i would have laughed at u too!

Shady, as a Muslim ur not supposed to have a b/f, g/f, whether ur b/f or g/f is Muslim or Non - Muslim...

And yes, if they convert u can get married! but what's she doing with a b/f in the first place... I think thats a major part of the problem, the simple fact that she even has a boyfriend!

 

[Generator]

You must admit that that does seem quite strange, physician - surely young people of the Islamic faith should be able to mingle freely (mingle, not become sexually active... I'm not going to get into that now) with members of the opposite sex before they commit to a marriage?

What is the reason for not allowing a young man or woman to 'date', if you don't mind the question?

 

[ur_inner_child]

shady, you're mixing up race and religion as the reason for such crisises... they're quite intricatley linked, I will admit that.

When it comes to race, there are many cases of families unwilling for their children to marry outside their race. I'm a prime example - an asian with a white boyfriend - one of many reasons why they've "disowned" me. It's tragic, unadequetly justified, but in most other cases, the want to have your children marry your own kind is a passive/subconscious/unhateful thing. Moreso to protect the child from any complications such as a clash of values.

As for religion, I feel it is a lot to do with race as well, but it is still an entirely different concept.

 

[ur_inner_child]

You must admit that that does seem quite strange, physician - surely young people of the Islamic faith should be able to mingle freely (mingle, not become sexually active... I'm not going to get into that now) with members of the opposite sex before they commit to a marriage?

What is the reason for not allowing a young man or woman to 'date', if you don't mind the question?

I've asked this question to certain muslim friends of mine, our age, and they're unfamiliar to the reason why other than its not appropriate.

So I'm very glad you asked. I'd like to hear a solid reason

 

[MiuMiu]

I've always prided myself on being tolerant of people's different beliefs and religions.

But I am also against blind acceptance of certain things, for the purpose of being 'politically correct'.

I am becoming increasingly intolerant toward fundamentalist muslims living in Australia. No, women are not second class citizens; and no, we aren't going to change the laws of the country so you can think we are a less disgusting and immoral society. Why is it that everytime you hear of a random bashing, or robbery, or rape crime, it is increasingly a person 'of middle eastern appearance'? Acts of terrorism? Feeling intimidated when you walk down the street past a group of young muslim guys......I feel totally safe walking past a group of Aussie guys, or a group of Asian guys, or a group of Indian guys. Something needs to be done.

These are not 'perceptions' influenced by the media. These are based on my own experiences in my personal life, as well as in the course of my employment.

I am proud to be an Australian. I feel enriched by multiculturalism. But I fully support the bumper sticker 'LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT'

 

[Kulazzi]

You must admit that that does seem quite strange, physician - surely young people of the Islamic faith should be able to mingle freely (mingle, not become sexually active.... I'm not going to get into that now) with members of the opposite sex before they commit to a marriage?

What is the reason for not allowing a young man or woman to 'date', if you don't mind the question?

If there is a decision that this girl should maryr that boy, then there is kind of like a "date" setting. So, take this scene for example. Both families are in one large dining room, hoping that the girl and boy will get married. One by one, they file out of the room (if they go as one big bunch then it'll look toooo obvious ), eventually leaving the boy and girl alone. Now, these two people start talking, finding out what they each do and stuff etc. etc.. Now as a result of this "date", each have their decision to marry or not.