Rape Ingrained in Islamic Culture? (3 Viewers)

[fb07]

not that bright, out of interest how many muslims do you know? You seem to have a very warped view of muslims and islam. Islam is not the religion you seem to think it is, its the people that interpret it and use it in ways to justify their stupidity that give this image. I can understand where your coming from and i mean i don't have a right to say its right or wrong but be open minded about the religion. The reality of it is, most of the nitty gritty things you guys are talking about most muslims (that i know anyway) don't care for. This nonsense about the whole sex thing .. buddy ... if im not in the mood its not happening and no religion can change this. I haven't heard of any problems concerning this as most men aren't stupid enough to keep pushing so really, is all this worth talking about minor details of the religion when most people on here don't get what the bigger picture that islam encourages is all about.. terrible sentence but you get me

 

[mr EaZy]

i would suggest that not that bright re examine and critique his own hidden and obscure chauvinistic tendencies and those of the society he lives in before trying to get cheap pot shots at islam

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i would suggest that not that bright re examine and critique his own hidden and obscure chauvinistic tendencies and those of the society he lives in before trying to get cheap pot shots at islam

ROFL GOOD ONE MAHN!!!!..s..1111

Islam is not the religion you seem to think it is, its the people that interpret it and use it in ways to justify their stupidity that give this image. I can understand where your coming from and i mean i don't have a right to say its right or wrong but be open minded about the religion.

As I've said before, this is really just an annoying argument because it poses that I cannot critique the religion because at its heart it's really 'perfect'. I am assessing the religion based on the way it is practiced within the majority of contemporary society, whether that is not 'pure islam' or whatever is besides the point.

The reality of it is, most of the nitty gritty things you guys are talking about most muslims (that i know anyway) don't care for.

Well I dunno if not every muslim you knows cares about these things, but I think you'll find in some nations these religious laws are strictly enforced.

This nonsense about the whole sex thing .. buddy ... if im not in the mood its not happening and no religion can change this.

HERETIC!!!

haven't heard of any problems concerning this as most men aren't stupid enough to keep pushing so really, is all this worth talking about minor details of the religion when most people on here don't get what the bigger picture that islam encourages is all about.. terrible sentence but you get me

See my first paragraph... whether islam at its 'pure' heart (as you imagine it) is some perfect beautiful thing or not - is not the matter being discussed. For arguments sake we consider the religion of islam to only be identifable by the practices of its followers and their customs.

 

[SashatheMan]

islam is like any set of laws. Weather its laws that goverrn the whoel country or laws that people have to follow in school, all laws are intended to make the system perfect. However in reality, the system isnt always perfect, people go against the laws and make the system corrupt. Sure you can say its the people to blame, but you cant change the people without changing the laws or look into the laws and see where the problem is coming from. The major problem with islamic laws is that they are easily interpretted in many ways. Now you muslims reprogram your brains and realise that defending yuor religion without even considering if there really is a problem is just ignorant. You have to admit that the interpretations create the suicide bombers and murders not just the people who become suicide bombers

 

[zahid]

 

[SashatheMan]

iis that before the plane crashes into a sky-scrapper

 

[fb07]

ROFL GOOD ONE MAHN!!!!..s..1111



As I've said before, this is really just an annoying argument because it poses that I cannot critique the religion because at its heart it's really 'perfect'. I am assessing the religion based on the way it is practiced within the majority of contemporary society, whether that is not 'pure islam' or whatever is besides the point.

So you admit that your assessing the way people are going by the religion and not the religion itself? You will never know how the majority of muslims practise their religion by what you see on the news or read in the paper. If you really care as much as your posting on this issue, get out there and meet a few hundred muslims to make a sound and applicable assessment. If the majority of that sample are bashing/'raping' their wives and whatever else you have in mind then you win.. but the reality of it is its not like that.

Well I dunno if not every muslim you knows cares about these things, but I think you'll find in some nations these religious laws are strictly enforced.

Your right and i don't agree with what they do and hope they come to a realisation, it is improving in some countries though

HERETIC!!!

See my first paragraph... whether islam at its 'pure' heart (as you imagine it) is some perfect beautiful thing or not - is not the matter being discussed. For arguments sake we consider the religion of islam to only be identifable by the practices of its followers and their customs.

Just so you understand what I'm saying you can't identify Islam through the way muslims follow it because each individual has his/her understanding of it. It makes a huge difference from country to country, region to region, brain to brain. All i can say to you is open your mind to the religion.. it's not the barbaric set of rules you guys make it out to be. It's a way of life that people choose because it enlightens them in some sort of way. It provides them refuge if you like and an emotional/spiritual security. Oh and for the record I wouldnt ever say its a perfect religion and everybody should join it because that goes against my belief and understanding of the religion.

 

[iranian rocket]

I am assessing the religion based on the way it is practiced within the majority of contemporary society, whether that is not 'pure islam' or whatever is besides the point.

Firstly "honor killings" and sanctioned rape are not practiced within the majority of contemporary islamic society. So this whole forum which claims "rape is ingrained in islam" is false from the outset. Honour killings and the like are not so much Islamic things but rather culltural things endemic to pakistan, we are talking about a place where the majority are poor, uneducated etc... If it was widely accepted in islam, then its occurance in all islamic countries would be common place, however this is hardly the case. Why is then do you think all such reports come from the same few countries?

Secondly, the point about racial identification in news reports is very much true. If everytime an armed robber, serial killer, murder or rapist was identified as a "anglo-saxon christian" the rest of society would slowly have a perception ingrained in their psyche regarding white christian males, when the link between the crime they commited with their race and religion is almost non-existant, but rather the result of social and economic factors. How can anyone claim the lebanese gang rapists were true muslims, when pre/extra marital sex(consentual or not) is forbidden in islam? when according to outdated islamic principles shaking a womans hand(pretty much just touching anywhere) and visa-versa are also strictly forbidden? One can not continue to claim such actions are either related to religion or race but rather individual specific.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So you admit that your assessing the way people are going by the religion and not the religion itself? You will never know how the majority of muslims practise their religion by what you see on the news or read in the paper. If you really care as much as your posting on this issue, get out there and meet a few hundred muslims to make a sound and applicable assessment. If the majority of that sample are bashing/'raping' their wives and whatever else you have in mind then you win.. but the reality of it is its not like that.

Can't I just go by other's more extensive research into the topic?

Just so you understand what I'm saying you can't identify Islam through the way muslims follow it because each individual has his/her understanding of it. It makes a huge difference from country to country, region to region, brain to brain. All i can say to you is open your mind to the religion.. it's not the barbaric set of rules you guys make it out to be. It's a way of life that people choose because it enlightens them in some sort of way. It provides them refuge if you like and an emotional/spiritual security. Oh and for the record I wouldnt ever say its a perfect religion and everybody should join it because that goes against my belief and understanding of the religion.

I've already explained the approach I'm taking to religion and I think your approach is over-complicated and leads to no possible analysis ever being done.

Firstly "honor killings" and sanctioned rape are not practiced within the majority of contemporary islamic society.

I never said anything about Honor killings, and while I'm sure 'rape' is not sanctioned in most muslim nations - the devil is in the details. Most muslim nations have archaic definitions of what 'rape' is, and this results in many instances of what I would call rape occuring.

How can anyone claim the lebanese gang rapists were true muslims, when pre/extra marital sex(consentual or not) is forbidden in islam? when according to outdated islamic principles shaking a womans hand(pretty much just touching anywhere) and visa-versa are also strictly forbidden? One can not continue to claim such actions are either related to religion or race but rather individual specific.

I imagine you cannot claim anyone is a 'true muslim' if you put them up against the test of all islamic scripture.

I do not believe religion by its self causes people to be such a way, I simply believe that such a conservative religion promotes 1st century values upon its followers and this helps to form their individual world-view.

 

[somechick]

islam is like any set of laws. Weather its laws that goverrn the whoel country or laws that people have to follow in school, all laws are intended to make the system perfect. However in reality, the system isnt always perfect, people go against the laws and make the system corrupt. Sure you can say its the people to blame, but you cant change the people without changing the laws or look into the laws and see where the problem is coming from. The major problem with islamic laws is that they are easily interpretted in many ways. Now you muslims reprogram your brains and realise that defending yuor religion without even considering if there really is a problem is just ignorant. You have to admit that the interpretations create the suicide bombers and murders not just the people who become suicide bombers

No one here ever said that the way the religion is practised is perfect. Rather, we are saying that God's words are absolute and perfect. We understand that there are problems (eg condemning the wrong actions) but its difficult to change a person purely by telling them "dont do this", unfortunetly, the legitimisation process of their actions involves twisting the truth.
Neither do we seek to alter the Quran by our hands. If we do this, the context of the laws will change and we will have to alter the laws over and over again to suit technologies and futures and that would lead to even BIGGER problems.
Laws that are man made render themselves, they change. The ethos of Islam is that this life is a test, it has material value. Because of this, it is not the religion that will change but the people. People will choose their paths, they are given the choice to choose their destinies. So if someone decides to terrorise others, the ultimate punishment will come in the afterlife. It is not in our (ie ordinary muslims) to judge one another, that is left to the almighty.

 

[SashatheMan]

No one here ever said that the way the religion is practised is perfect. Rather, we are saying that God's words are absolute and perfect. We understand that there are problems (eg condemning the wrong actions) but its difficult to change a person purely by telling them "dont do this", unfortunetly, the legitimisation process of their actions involves twisting the truth.
Neither do we seek to alter the Quran by our hands. If we do this, the context of the laws will change and we will have to alter the laws over and over again to suit technologies and futures and that would lead to even BIGGER problems.
Laws that are man made render themselves, they change. The ethos of Islam is that this life is a test, it has material value. Because of this, it is not the religion that will change but the people. People will choose their paths, they are given the choice to choose their destinies. So if someone decides to terrorise others, the ultimate punishment will come in the afterlife. It is not in our (ie ordinary muslims) to judge one another, that is left to the almighty.

thats the problem , you try to stick to the 7th century laws that completely dont work in this centruy. Fisrtt of all you dont follow every signle one of them , so your basicly breaking laws of islam already, and the ones yuo do follow are so premative or unnecessary that it seems silly to follow them. i think thats a BIGGER problem then if yuo try to alter the laws to the modern times

 

[somechick]

thats the problem , you try to stick to the 7th century laws that completely dont work in this centruy. Fisrtt of all you dont follow every signle one of them , so your basicly breaking laws of islam already, and the ones yuo do follow are so premative or unnecessary that it seems silly to follow them. i think thats a BIGGER problem then if yuo try to alter the laws to the modern times

So you hear a few problems in the muslim world. That does not mean that the whole islamic world is wrong, you are totalising, as well as generalising ("you DONT do follow ALL rules"... ps how do you know that? if ONE muslim strays, it does not mean the hearts of others are impure). Furthermore, it is stressed in islam that you better yourself. I do not follow EVERY law eithier, but you are on a road to betterment, and that is what matters. You cannot simply just say, well, since you dont follow every law in the first place, then you're perpetually stuffed up.

And on the other hand, the model that you're advocating, the western developed model, has its own problems too, so using the same reasoning, that model is 'wrong' as well. There are problems within every system. Not everyone listens to the laws governed by democracy. People lie, cheat and steal. So does that make the western model incorrect?

Primitive you say? Heres some news: The US, as well as other non-muslim nations still implement capital punishment. There were hundreds of Australians during the Nguyen Van Toang incident who were calling for these laws to be re-adopted here as a stricter method of punishment, how barbaric is that?

And like others said, and i will repeat, some of the laws are taken into the hands of cultures and men, in which "absolute power corrupts absolutely"- The Taliban regime were idiots for short. They took the law into their own hands, and because the larger population of afghanistan were illiterate and powerless, they couldnt contest the laws that they preached were 'holy'.