religion and sex before marriage - REDONE (2 Viewers)

[sub]

Christianity is only out dated because nobody wants to follow Christ...

But thats the same with all religions i guess... If muslims were commited to living the koran, or people listened to Ghandi then the world would be a completely different place. But its easy to say your something but not live like you are.

In my opinion, christians today have become lazy. Some people get into the mind frame that they are saved no matter what they do, which is true, but you cant show someone you love them if you dont put effort into the relationship.

For so long it seems we've lacked the motivation to live christianity, and because of that noone knows what christianity is... We're just a bunch of nay sayers pointing our fingers at anything we personally dont agree with saying "God doesnt want you to do this, He certainly doesnt like that"... God already gave his opinion on what he wants and we'd be better off to listen to it!



By this definition, the very moment you have sex with someone you are married to them. Not when you go through some fancy ceremony. So technically you cant have sex before marriage. But that also means if you have sex with one person, then go and have sex with another, you are breaking the terms of marriage. And as Malachi 2:16 starts:



Showing thats not what God wants.

And shown again by Jesus:



The commitment i am called to is to have a sexual love one person and one person only. The one i have sex with is my wife, and if I desire another woman, then I'm not living how I am called to live. I dont care if people feel sorry for me because I know that the person I do love gets ALL my love. Everything I have to offer is hers

That doesnt mean Im perfect... far from it. But God's grace is like a safety net to catch me when I fall. It would be stupid for a tight rope walker to never leave the saftey net because they are probably going to fall. So its stupid for me to live relying completely on grace to get me through. Although it will do that, thats not what its there for.


If you're are thinking that this is stupid because you should experience other people before you settle down, then you go do that. Only christians are bound by the guidelines that Christ told us to live by. I can't force the values of what I believe onto someone who doesnt believe it.

All I can do is put effort into living the life I am called to live. I am convinced of what i believe, and I know that christianity is relevant today... if only christians would live it

i assume ur not one of the people who believe that religion should evolve with society...which is the way it should be. now before u start flaming cos i already stated im not christian and i should butt out...this applies to all religions. any religion that does not satisfy the changes due to time from the outset is flawed per se. i dont understand why religion should change with the changes in society. if religion and god are true, which to me they are, then god would have accounted for these changes from before, being omni-present, omni-potent and omniscient, right? thus all things within the religion should be based for as long as the religion sticks around. any modifications made to this creed are man-made and artificial - which is EXACTLY how it should NOT be. any man-made changes are limited in view, and requires constant changes to keep "up-to-date" per se. man in his very nature (note his is an arbitrary term), limited and dependant on many things, and if u believe in god - one who is above these limitations, then you should automatically realise that any thing that u add is limited as u urself are limited. thus, if god set out for a religion to stick for the entirety of humankind from its point of arrival, is it not plausible that god had infact intended the way described in the scriptures to be THE way to live ur life?
certainly any addition to the scriptures or any modification due to changes in the society should not be made. if u DO decide the religion u choose, or if ur just an agnostic believing that there is something out there...then u dont sway with the changes caused by society... that just seems stupid.
however, u must acknowledge also that faith or degree of faith within or around religions is subjective...ppl choose to believe some parts while rejecting others. is this how religion should be? is it just a matter of choosing the right social or moral values which best suit u? or are u supposed to follow an entire religion in its entirety? if u are looking for religion as a sense of hope and a drive to keep u going, so be it...however, i believe (yes this is a personal statement, and obvioously mean no direspect or offense) that u are not looking hard enuf. a religion by its definition is the guidelines to live ur life, and is complete within itself. it is not something u restrict to sundays (assuming most on this thread are christians), or any other holy day or event. religion is all-encompassing and should tell u how to act. it is a list of things that god has told u to uphold. so for all u ppl arguing that religion SHOULD change, why is it that u believe so? (note this question is directed to those who are of a designated religion, and not just faith, as faith is subjective and what u believe in may or may not be written down, or given in a direct set of rules to follow). if u DO believe in religion as the word of god...is it not obvious that he (again arbitrary) has sought out all that will come in the future and that whatever was decreed then should still hold now? is it also not obvious that changes in the moral values upheld by society ARE the changes thought up by men (arbitrary) and thus not with the wisdom or knowledge of god, and thus any change in this context would be illogical to make?

note just some food for thought...no offense intended. i, myself, admit i do not kno enuf to argue against christianity so i wont...if it seemed that i was, it was to be a general religion question, and i merely used christianity as an example.
enjoy.

 

[osk]

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/questions-for-skeptics.html

http://answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/critics.asp#contradictions

 

[sub]

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/questions-for-skeptics.html

http://answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/critics.asp#contradictions

thanks mate ill bookmark em and read em later after the 3rd when my exams finish

 

[Dougie]

sub... that's the longest post i've seen u make ever!!!!
i can say but one thing...
MATHS TOMORROW GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!
sorry, just being ur conscience

 

[sub]

sub... that's the longest post i've seen u make ever!!!!
i can say but one thing...
MATHS TOMORROW GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!
sorry, just being ur conscience

thnx dougie...nice to kno a mates looking out for me yeah i did do maths...will do as soon as someone responds...if they dont in five mins...then im off...
also with religion posts u gotta say everything u want to, or ppl will pick out flaws and its harder to dismantle later... longest post? hahaha too tru...but reason is there. maybe u should study too be off at 4:15 latest... and before that if no one responds goodluck tomoro mate

 

[Dougie]

"is it also not obvious that changes in the moral values upheld by society ARE the changes thought up by men (arbitrary) and thus not with the wisdom or knowledge of god, and thus any change in this context would be illogical to make?" (sub)

Do u think the moral values of society are really controlled by those in power (such as Howards comments on public school)? i reckon the true values of society are built in the family household, and have just been shaped over time, not change. Therefore just because we're in a different context to the creators of our religions, the values they created are such that they can be moulded and shaped to suit the differeing world. I'm sure our forefathers realised the world would change, so they allowed for it, not try and stop it.

 

[Dougie]

sub... r u typing something really long... just a guess!

 

[sub]

"is it also not obvious that changes in the moral values upheld by society ARE the changes thought up by men (arbitrary) and thus not with the wisdom or knowledge of god, and thus any change in this context would be illogical to make?" (sub)

Do u think the moral values of society are really controlled by those in power (such as Howards comments on public school)? i reckon the true values of society are built in the family household, and have just been shaped over time, not change. Therefore just because we're in a different context to the creators of our religions, the values they created are such that they can be moulded and shaped to suit the differeing world. I'm sure our forefathers realised the world would change, so they allowed for it, not try and stop it.

hey hey!!! a reply...thanks mate...now i can go and study...just b4 4:15 too...
anyway...in no place did i state that the society was shaped by those in power, even is there is enuf evidence to support it - which i dont think there is... true values are the ones that stick...the ones that have been around for a while and have stood the test of time. again, i say that religion is SUPPOSED to be the ultimate criterion for ur way of life....it is the ideal that we strive for... now i see religion guide on how to do things...everyday things as well as big decisions. it is the religion which is a basis for much of what u do. if god truly wrote the religion to stand tall against time, then he would have created it to be perfect, because that's what god is isnt it? perfect...without blemish? and thus anything he creates is better than anything we could ever come up with. so on the basis of moulding, sure in some cases context changes, technology changes, and thus forces some things to be viewed differently...all im saying is that religion is NOT to be moulded, it is our perception of religion in our society that is moulded. you have to be careful as to what it is that u change. if u were to add certain things or remove things from a religion, you are destabilising the religion - u are being biased over some things and not others.
i admit, it is naive to think that god would not see that society will change. but it is how the religion braces for this change, without doing complete U-turns that makes the religion what it is. if god truly wrote the scriptures, which he did (before any changes were made), then he would have had things within them to account for change. i dont want to pick on christianity, but it is the only one that comes to mind...i havent read the sites posted, but i intend to....this is my opinion as it stands at the moment of composition...christianity is known for its back-flips, however, i alsp admit it does reveal some truths too...u only have to look so far as the heliocentric view of the world. the church refused to acknowledge the heliocentric solar system, and instead remained steadfast in its assumption of the geocentric model...however, later it changed...sry for the crude example but it IS the only one that came to mind.
back to dougie's post: sure, values can change...u would have learnt that through mod b if nothing else in english, and i believe that religion is SUPPOSED to be and IS complete, and it accounts for changes. any who disagree and believe that religion should change to suit the society really are not searching deep enough for their answers. u CANNOT say that god is all-knowing and say that he has not accounted for it - that's implausible... i believe society will change, and that is a definite...we do not live in the same technological state as our forefathers...and that in itself elicits change. however, u must look at the entirety of a religion for its view, because any religion MUST account for these changes should it be made to last. i hope this post offends no one as it wasnt intended for that purpose... just flinging ideas that seem to go against what u guys (some of u guys) have been posting. and any that have exams tomoro: goodluck...
im going now...so pm me, or respond...ill be back at 5:30ish again...

 

[sub]

sub... r u typing something really long... just a guess!

damn 'twas supposed to be a surprise!

 

[MiuMiu]

I guess I wished that my bf and I had been each others' firsts, but i don't think i could have waited till marriage till I had sex....i tend to give into urges very easily!


And pretty much the urge to have sex is an instinct, and instincts don't care whether or not you've signed a bit of paper.

 

[je_ss_ka]

The Most Important Thing

I know there are so many religious debates about sex before marriage and I really can see everyone's point of view. I think the most important thing though is that you're true to yourself and do what you feel to be right. Don't do anything because you feel you have to, don't not do something because you feel you shouldn't. Just do what you really want to do - what you know deep inside you to be right.

But also I think it's important that you respect your partner and their beliefs. If you're going to have sex it's got to be a joint decision and you both have to be ready. I guess it's just important that everyone has their own beliefs and they stick to them. Most importantly that people respect each other's beliefs and are true to themselves.

 

[spell check]

i think i'll wait till marriage before having religion

 

[sub]

i think i'll wait till marriage before having religion

hahaha, funny bloke...but what if u dont make it that far?

 

[Sophie777]

Hey people,

Just a couple of points I'd like to reply to.



Yes definately! Why would I not want to take an option which allows me to make sense of the chaos in this world. Remember, Christianity offers no physical saefty from this....only spiritual salvation....how then can I be escaping?



Firstly, Christianity is absolutely unique amongst religions in that it emphasises what God has done to save us, not what we can do to save ourselves. All other religions are based our actions to ensure salvation. And about logic. I would have to agree that Christianity has much logic in it. These are but a few questions you may like to consider:

How do you account for the vast archaeological documentation of Biblical stories, places, and people?

Since absolutely NO Bible prophecy has ever failed (and there are hundreds), how can one realistically remain unconvinced that the Bible is of Divine origin?

Wouldn't it make better sense, even pragmatically, to live as though the God of the Bible does exist than as though He doesn't?

If Jesus' resurrection was faked, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have died for what they knew to be a lie?

Are you aware that every alleged Bible contradiction has been answered in an intelligible and credible manner?

Why and how has the Bible survived and even flourished in spite of centuries of worldwide attempts to destroy and ban its message?

How do you explain the empty tomb of Jesus in light of all the evidence that has now proven essentially irrefutable for twenty centuries?

How did 35-40 men, spanning 1500 years and living on three separate continents, ever manage to author one unified message, i.e. the Bible?


As you can see, there is much logic to Christianity. i'm sure you base logic on evidence....well now u have it. And Sohpie....do you really think that being bad at sex is a reason to end a marriage? By what you say, It sounds like you believe that having Sex before marrage is the only was to determine whether a person is right for you or not. Surely there are other ways of getting to know someone before marriage. Sex is not everything in a marriage either.

You can'y give evidence for the bible being true from the bible! It's a circular argument. The existence of God depends on the truth of the bible and the truth of the bible depends on the existence of God but there are no other historical documents who actually agree with this and it is hence empty evidence.

And, I do not like to have my opinion summed up by an empty comment as "it sounds like you believe having sex before marriage is the only way to determine whether a person is right for you or not." What I said doesn't sound like anything, I am saying that I think you don't know whether you love someone and you haven't fully shown them before you have sex with them. How can you become closer than making love? Is this not the reason why we call it 'making love'? And, I don't think you have to have sex before you married but I certainly think you will be missing out and you are placing too much value on the act of having sex as consumating (however u spell it) a marriage rather than loving eachother being the promise.

And, Jesus did not dissappear from the tomb in my opinion. This is your opinion.
Can you please form another argument explaining the facts and sources of your claim with examples. And, don't use evidence from the bible to give your religion credibility please.

I also see that your belief of the righteousness of christianity due to God's willingness to loves us no matter what is actually only what the attraction of christianity is NOT the fact that it is somehow more correct.

I've already had sex and If I go to hell for it, if there is one. Then so be it. It was worth it. And I'm going to marry him anyway. I'd also like to say that if religion is so trivial as to condemn homosexuality and premarital sex then it isn't worth my time.

 

[spell check]

hahaha, funny bloke...but what if u dont make it that far?

what? you mean if i get really drunk one night and wake up next to the bible or something with a massive hangover?

 

[ur_inner_child]

someone deconstruct my posts!!!

Sophie777 I have an undying respect for you at the moment from previous debates

 

[sub]

what? you mean if i get really drunk one night and wake up next to the bible or something with a massive hangover?

yeah...or u suddenly have a change of heart b4 u get married...or decide not to get married at all...the other extreme is if u dont live to that stage...

 

[sub]

You can'y give evidence for the bible being true from the bible! It's a circular argument. The existence of God depends on the truth of the bible and the truth of the bible depends on the existence of God but there are no other historical documents who actually agree with this and it is hence empty evidence.

And, I do not like to have my opinion summed up by an empty comment as "it sounds like you believe having sex before marriage is the only way to determine whether a person is right for you or not." What I said doesn't sound like anything, I am saying that I think you don't know whether you love someone and you haven't fully shown them before you have sex with them. How can you become closer than making love? Is this not the reason why we call it 'making love'? And, I don't think you have to have sex before you married but I certainly think you will be missing out and you are placing too much value on the act of having sex as consumating (however u spell it) a marriage rather than loving eachother being the promise.

And, Jesus did not dissappear from the tomb in my opinion. This is your opinion.
Can you please form another argument explaining the facts and sources of your claim with examples. And, don't use evidence from the bible to give your religion credibility please.

I also see that your belief of the righteousness of christianity due to God's willingness to loves us no matter what is actually only what the attraction of christianity is NOT the fact that it is somehow more correct.

I've already had sex and If I go to hell for it, if there is one. Then so be it. It was worth it. And I'm going to marry him anyway. I'd also like to say that if religion is so trivial as to condemn homosexuality and premarital sex then it isn't worth my time.

hey, nice work taking out the foundations of his argument...but can i ask u...are u chrsitian, or do u believe in god? if so is there a reason for it? i seem to remember u saying u wer agnostic, or sumthing to that effect.

 

[Sophie777]

I believe there is something. Simply because of the beautiful things that exist on the Earth. I can't see the world as being made by nothing. This doesn't mean it was made by God, or a person. Could have been the Big Bang. I don't know. But we don't live in nothing. That big universe out there.... there is life somewhere else.

Can someone explain to me how God in the opinion of christians just came to exist? How come nobody had to create him? This is completely amateur of a question but you know... I don't think the answer 'no-one' really satisfies any logic.

 

[Sophie777]

Haha ur_inner_child how come you want someone to deconstuct your post? And which one.. I'm sure if you paste one everyone will have a chip at it.