religion and sex before marriage - REDONE (2 Viewers)

[sub]

that someone was me.

It's just faith...

This is a weird example but.... I mean, some people believe that they will find their true love. Logically they don't know for sure, because there is no way they can. They have no proof whatsoever. But its faith. It's hope. And telling them they have no proof and that their faith is illogical could shatter them. Its a faith, and they're well aware that there is no proof, hence a faith or a belief, not a law.

Do you kinda get what I'm saying??? I don't particularly see Christianity as something to explain the world. Logic explains the world, I agree. But I see Christianity as something to turn to. I know you must turn to SOMETHING in times of crisis, whether it be calling a friend, or calling an ambulance, whatever.

I had the strongest need to pray when my dad went to hospital. It's a form of hope, regardless of its logic. It doesn't EXPLAIN why dad's still breathing, but it was comforting for me, and a way to give myself hope. Alternatively, if you were in my situation, you would've done something else. It's just a faith.

deconstruct this? this will take a while...im prolly not the best to do this, but ill try:

sure, there is no logic that defines when or who u fall in love with, and there is no exact science to do so. nor will there be. it is subjective as ur faith. u believe that person is the one for u, and hence, yes u are correct...

I had the strongest need to pray when my dad went to hospital. It's a form of hope, regardless of its logic. It doesn't EXPLAIN why dad's still breathing, but it was comforting for me, and a way to give myself hope. Alternatively, if you were in my situation, you would've done something else. It's just a faith.

yes, in dire times we do look to someone for help, and it is natural to do so. You cant say believing or praying makes everything better, and nothing bad will come of it, because it is obvious that people die. sorry i dont mean to come off as harsh. again, it IS faith that helps through these times...

I don't particularly see Christianity as something to explain the world. Logic explains the world, I agree. But I see Christianity as something to turn to.

now this is sumthing i DONT agree with...u cant shelve ur religion away and hope it comes to ur aid when u require it. it is MORE than something u should turn to. however, this is a subjective area, and i am willing to leave it as ur opinion against mine. but, why cant u try to reason out religion with logic? i believe god gave u intellect to use it to ur advantage - no that does NOT mean go out and exploit ppl - u can use it to prove that He exists. after that it is up to u to find the religion that best encapsulates this concept of belief. u can't be a part time christian. ur either there for it all throughout, or ur not. u SHOULD be able to discern logically things about ur religion. especially the existence of god... for all those believers in scientology (or whatever u call it), there are things out there that have only been discovered recently that were revealed in the scriptures... how do u explain that?
u keep saying faith and religion as one and the same...they are not. faith is ur belief in god, or a supreme being, or sumthing u consider greater than urself - someone or sumthing powerful enuf to help in ur time of need. however, religion is taking faith to the next step...it is the creed sent down by god to guide ur decsions in life. not just something left to one day a week. religion is basically an aligned faith, where lots of people who believe in the same thing follow the same instructions and guide to lead their life. anyone can have faith. even those athiests have "faith" in something...however, it is religion which directs the focus of faith into something tangible - something that u can relate to or with. it is the physical manifestation of ur faith. faith stays with u forever...it is ur religion that in the end separates u from the agnostics...
pls dont take offense at anything in this post, its not intended to be offensive.

 

[ur_inner_child]

deconstruct this? this will take a while...im prolly not the best to do this, but ill try:

sure, there is no logic that defines when or who u fall in love with, and there is no exact science to do so. nor will there be. it is subjective as ur faith. u believe that person is the one for u, and hence, yes u are correct...



yes, in dire times we do look to someone for help, and it is natural to do so. You cant say believing or praying makes everything better, and nothing bad will come of it, because it is obvious that people die. sorry i dont mean to come off as harsh. again, it IS faith that helps through these times...



now this is sumthing i DONT agree with...u cant shelve ur religion away and hope it comes to ur aid when u require it. it is MORE than something u should turn to. however, this is a subjective area, and i am willing to leave it as ur opinion against mine. but, why cant u try to reason out religion with logic? i believe god gave u intellect to use it to ur advantage - no that does NOT mean go out and exploit ppl - u can use it to prove that He exists. after that it is up to u to find the religion that best encapsulates this concept of belief. u can't be a part time christian. ur either there for it all throughout, or ur not. u SHOULD be able to discern logically things about ur religion. especially the existence of god... for all those believers in scientology (or whatever u call it), there are things out there that have only been discovered recently that were revealed in the scriptures... how do u explain that?
u keep saying faith and religion as one and the same...they are not. faith is ur belief in god, or a supreme being, or sumthing u consider greater than urself - someone or sumthing powerful enuf to help in ur time of need. however, religion is taking faith to the next step...it is the creed sent down by god to guide ur decsions in life. not just something left to one day a week. religion is basically an aligned faith, where lots of people who believe in the same thing follow the same instructions and guide to lead their life. anyone can have faith. even those athiests have "faith" in something...however, it is religion which directs the focus of faith into something tangible - something that u can relate to or with. it is the physical manifestation of ur faith. faith stays with u forever...it is ur religion that in the end separates u from the agnostics...
pls dont take offense at anything in this post, its not intended to be offensive.

Lol, very nicely done. I don't shelve my my religion away, but I can see how I depicted that way, so another point to you. Lol. I didn't take offense at all. Thanks mate, rep for you.

 

[sub]

I believe there is something. Simply because of the beautiful things that exist on the Earth. I can't see the world as being made by nothing. This doesn't mean it was made by God, or a person. Could have been the Big Bang. I don't know. But we don't live in nothing. That big universe out there.... there is life somewhere else.

Can someone explain to me how God in the opinion of christians just came to exist? How come nobody had to create him? This is completely amateur of a question but you know... I don't think the answer 'no-one' really satisfies any logic.

look im not a christian, but i think i can shed some light to this post... u say u realise that there is a god...lets try to reason it out by logic: (actually ill do that later...cant be bothered now...) but in relation to ur question...think about it this way:

if god created this world and universe, and something created god...then what's to prevent this new supremer (not a word, but hu cares) being wasnt created himself? this keeps going...known as infinite regression...ie one before the other...however, if u use this approach there cannot be anything as it doesnt work out (LOGICALLY!!! yess finally some evidence of logic!!). There must have been something to begin it all...and THAT is god...the most powerful. something had to start the chain of events that lead to the final product...and that missing link is god. also by this argument...nothing creates god...he just exists... was that logical enuf?

 

[lissy pissy]

i haven't read all of the previous posts so my point may be somewhat distant to whatever the original point of the discussion was, but bear with me.

coming from a catholic background, the idea of abstaining from sex before marriage has been drummed into my head and my brothers, i know that the incessant nagging has not worked for them, i feel that it is different for girls as they do not reach their sexual peak at the same time as boys i.e. 17 to mid 20's, but rather later in life which might explain their 'excited' behaviour.

so i put the question out to people, mainly girls, who wants to sleep with over-sexed teenaged boys?

i think i'll wait

 

[Sophie777]

No. God can't create himself. And to say he exists just because he does isn't logical at all. But thanks. I don't think christianity is suppose to be explained by logic and this, to atheists, is its fatal flaw.

I think there is something. I don't think there is a God.

 

[Sophie777]

My boyfriend isn't an over-sexed teenage boy!

And, I think that you can't have this opinion when you are in love. And in any case, I am just as sexually ready and aware as he.

 

[sub]

uhh, thanks for the rep...but i sorta want a discussion. this is interesting as long as no one takes offense... cos then it gets ugly. the point of discussion as evinced through managore's last post's failure is that u dont argue against someone's faith...cos that's subjective in its own right and able to be wielded as the person sees fit... but u cant attack their religion, which make it tricky, because that causes fights and the such. however, the ONLY thing left in this circumstance is logic...i DONT see why logic should be restrained to non-religious matters... it is why we humans are "the best of god's creatures"...even with those crazy fanatics that destroy life. logic is a tool do discern truth. for those that claim there "is no absolute truth"...ur also by similar argument saying there is "no god". god is the ultimate being and ALL truth derives from him. so assuming the religious scriptures ARE ritten by him, then they are all true?
this can be argued, and for all the dicrepencies in christianity, (i will read the sites osk), u have to note that it was paraphrased...now this is getting into murky waters so ill stop there before i get flamed. pls take no offense, i have nothing against christians, tho i have some issues with the authenticity of some of ur creed. however, i will not discuss it with u in a public thread. so pls take no offense...

 

[lissy pissy]

im sorry 18 is the age at which we're the most mature and aware about ourselves, my mistake. Im sure ur love is very deep and that it will last through the ages

 

[Sophie777]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude or anything.

Discussion... I have been discussing. I have been asking christians to apply logic to belief. I am not a christian in any way. I recognise however, that it is impossible to believe the stretching things said in the bible if you allow logic.

When you see a room full of christians praying I think to myself 'That is so weird!' and you couldn't, if you believed there was someone listening, jump outside of yourself and think about just how illogical it is for someone to be able to listen to every prayer.

 

[sub]

No. God can't create himself. And to say he exists just because he does isn't logical at all. But thanks. I don't think christianity is suppose to be explained by logic and this, to atheists, is its fatal flaw.

I think there is something. I don't think there is a God.

Exactly, god cannot create himself...and by definition has no need to... however, i want to see how u can refute that this world is created...i dont understand UR logic. i agree saying he exists because he does it stupid...but i also dont understand where u are coming from... so i cant argue till i understand what it is exactly ur after. note...i was NOT trying to justify christianity. only the existence of a god.

NOTE: the definition i use for god is the ultimate being...nothing superior at all. thus using that argument i used earlier whoever starts the chain is god, the rest are limited beings...and thus NOT god.

 

[Sophie777]

I don't get what you are saying lissy_pissy? Are patronising me, saying that I am not aware of myself because I am only 18. It's hard to get people's meaning across the internet.

 

[Sophie777]

Exactly, god cannot create himself...and by definition has no need to... however, i want to see how u can refute that this world is created...i dont understand UR logic. i agree saying he exists because he does it stupid...but i also dont understand where u are coming from... so i cant argue till i understand what it is exactly ur after. note...i was NOT trying to justify christianity. only the existence of a god.

NOTE: the definition i use for god is the ultimate being...nothing superior at all. thus using that argument i used earlier whoever starts the chain is god, the rest are limited beings...and thus NOT god.

Isn't God a word christians use. I am attempting not to use this word.
I agree there is a supreme being whatever it is.

 

[Dougie]

depends what context, in this conversation it appears that god means "a god", "any god".
it's not just used by christians, think about the greek gods, or the roman gods, or the egyptians.

 

[sub]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude or anything.

Discussion... I have been discussing. I have been asking christians to apply logic to belief. I am not a christian in any way. I recognise however, that it is impossible to believe the stretching things said in the bible if you allow logic.

When you see a room full of christians praying I think to myself 'That is so weird!' and you couldn't, if you believed there was someone listening, jump outside of yourself and think about just how illogical it is for someone to be able to listen to every prayer.

hahahah, in response to the last part of this post of urs...it is beyond comprehension. u cannot expect to understand everything. we are limited, that is our nature. however, if u can believe in a god - supreme and all-powerful, then it IS possible...what u need is to prove his existence...then the rest comes from faith.
logic can only take u so far...u cannot comprehend anything outside this universe as no one has seen what's there. u can only prove that there IS something out there. Once u establish that, u are at a loss to describe this being.
its like someone at the door knocking...u kno there is someone there, but u dont know anything about him...only from what he tells u...now pls dont be a jackass and say look through the "peep hole" cos in this case there is on peep hole. so understanding or rationalising god's power is beyond comrehension...u are limited to ur frame of reference... u can only glean wat is told to u... hope that clears some stuff up for u sophie...

 

[lissy pissy]

yeah i guess i'm being a bitch, i guess ur not religious and it is ur life

 

[sub]

Isn't God a word christians use. I am attempting not to use this word.
I agree there is a supreme being whatever it is.

god is a generic term used to describe the supreme being regardless of what religion u are...it is not the arameic term used in the beginning but a construct. the name really means nothing....like u call urself sophie..y not jane? it makes no difference what ur name is...it doesnt change who u are... does that help some? i'll be back in half an hour...gotta eat...nice to see u dougie.

 

[spell check]

jews, muslims and christians all follow the same one God

how can you differentiate one god from another if you believe in a sole creator, it's inevitable that they must all believe in the same one, just with different names

 

[osk]

You can'y give evidence for the bible being true from the bible! It's a circular argument. The existence of God depends on the truth of the bible and the truth of the bible depends on the existence of God but there are no other historical documents who actually agree with this and it is hence empty evidence.

Sophie....the evidence for these arguments is not from the bible.....check out this site and see how SECULAR evidence agrees with the bible....if ur open minded enough...ull have a read....


http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/questions-for-skeptics.html


http://www.christiananswers.net/evangelism/responses/home.html


God bless you as u check out this stuff....and thanks for taking the time to look at it

 

[ur_inner_child]

uhh, thanks for the rep...but i sorta want a discussion. this is interesting as long as no one takes offense... cos then it gets ugly. the point of discussion as evinced through managore's last post's failure is that u dont argue against someone's faith...cos that's subjective in its own right and able to be wielded as the person sees fit... but u cant attack their religion, which make it tricky, because that causes fights and the such. however, the ONLY thing left in this circumstance is logic...i DONT see why logic should be restrained to non-religious matters... it is why we humans are "the best of god's creatures"...even with those crazy fanatics that destroy life. logic is a tool do discern truth. for those that claim there "is no absolute truth"...ur also by similar argument saying there is "no god". god is the ultimate being and ALL truth derives from him. so assuming the religious scriptures ARE ritten by him, then they are all true?
this can be argued, and for all the dicrepencies in christianity, (i will read the sites osk), u have to note that it was paraphrased...now this is getting into murky waters so ill stop there before i get flamed. pls take no offense, i have nothing against christians, tho i have some issues with the authenticity of some of ur creed. however, i will not discuss it with u in a public thread. so pls take no offense...

I was actually left stumped, to be honest. I'm actually in two religious threads so I think I've been repeating myself and tiring myself out so I can NOT study lol.

I see flaws in the bible too... such as its patriarchy, its homophobia, its racism, depending on the way in which its read. To be honest, priests, bishops etc have sat there and enforced their own readings of the bible (since it IS a series of narratives) toward society, and some countries have claimed that when at war they are "fighting for God" - yet as we all know, readings such as this are biased and unreliable. I also believe that because of the way in which one can interpret the Bible, it can also be RE-interpreted, which happens all the time. Books have come out on it and I based my Ext 2 English on this.

You'll find that most christians are not the way some think. You'll be surprised how many are open minded to other religions, as well as atheists, race, gender, and (rarely) sexuality. This is because the bible can be reinterpreted, seeing as though its a text. We may read it NOW in a feminist, multicultural etc, stance, interpreting in what we want to read, the way bishops and priests and other authority figures had when they enforced their readings toward the public and constructed "traditional" christianity, if there is such a thing. The domininant message is still there. "Do unto your brothers as I have done to you" is the same as the wicken (witch's religion... something about...) "what you do unto others you will recieve back three times" which is the same as "What goes round comes around" which is the same as someone without a religion that just KNOWS that you should treat people right. The elements of all religious and non religious people are still there because society constructs what is "good" and "bad" , conditions each person to what the "norm" is, and some enhance it through following religious words and preachings. Therefore most religions are as valid as atheists and its not very constructive to point at each other and say "your way is wrong, ignorant etc" Thats how I see religion and non religion in these debates. They're both valid, and I see too much of "no you're ignorant" on BOTH sides of the arguement that sometimes I find it immature because the elements are forgotten, and thus the similarities between atheists and those religious are forgotten. Does that make sense??? I may have gone off to a tangent.

My head hurts now.

But what I seek is those who see beyond that and can sustain a good religious arguement

 

[Dougie]

But what I seek is those who see beyond that and can sustain a good religious arguement[/QUOTE]

which appears to be all here, we who r all interlectual!!