religious justification of sex (2 Viewers)

[hipPo3]

i think we should all pitch in $10 for a hooker for good ole kangaroo .. i dont think he's ever had any excitment in his life.

 

[tempco]

well...yes i think people would disagree still but big deal... we're entitled to disagree, plenty of people christian or not have posted both points of view and people have agreed and disagreed...so i don't see why that would be a problem....

it's just that people are asking for proof from the bible, but they know it doesn't exist.

and as for the verses kangaroo and co. have posted up, i'm sure the context in which they were revealed would shed light on this issue. i mean, it's unwise to consider only the literal meaning of the bible.

 

[LaraB]

come on guys!!! i'm feeling left out here. i posted on page 6, and was i really that assertive with what i said that no one's commenting at all or am i just being ignored?? everyone else gets commented on for something or another, gimme a chance!!!

Anyways, pleading for comments aside, kangaroo, you're doing a good job being a fundamentalist christian, but i think you have a few things to learn in the area of evangelism. Personally, i havent found that saying, 'Look mate, you're gonna go to hell and undergo immense torture, so much so that you'll wish you'd die but you never would. Unless of course you were to pray with me and believe in my God, then you'll be saved and live in paradise forever. Just face it, you're wrong, you're a big sinner, and you need God to escape from the impending doom of this here world in which we live.'

As a christian, i see what you're tryin to say, and i am a believer in being upfront and blunt about things so ppl can see what you're tryin to say right off the mark, but religion has always been a sensitive issue, so it might help your, or indeed if you're genuine about it all, our cause if you softened up a bit and maybe tried to convey the whole message with such themes as the mercy, grace and forgiveness of God, not just his just and wrathful side.

Just a thought mate.

at the same time some of us are smart enough to crawl through all the 'warm n fuzzy' stuff to stil think its all wrong lol....

most atheist/agnostics are so coz they don't agree with the general principles of religion or the founadtions of it or whatever so knowing the 'good parts' isn't really gonna make a difference...

it's not that religino is a 'sensitive' issue.... i think it's more that some people think its right and some think its wrong, simple as that... if people around the world were as pushy and rude about i dunno...convincing you to stop eating tomatoes, you'd get just a pissed of wit em... so its not the topic its the fact that someone's telling you "adopt my beliefs coz they're right"

long as you're not offensive or rude in what you say people will listen..its not so much what's being said, its the manner

 

[LaraB]

it's just that people are asking for proof from the bible, but they know it doesn't exist.

and as for the verses kangaroo and co. have posted up, i'm sure the context in which they were revealed would shed light on this issue. i mean, it's unwise to consider only the literal meaning of the bible.

that's exactly the point that i was making - the initial posts were referring to the bible as the 'proof' as did kangaroo to which i said its all an interpretation so the bible does not serve as proof coz you can interpret it to have 2 totally contradictory meanings dependsing on the way you view it...

so i don't see how it's so terrible of us to prove that point by asking for proof since it was asserted "it's wrong coz the bible/God says so"

 

[Minifish]

yeah, but just coz i'm nice about it doesnt mean i wanna be ignored dammit!!! i wouldnt mind a comment or some constructive critisism here and there...and where's the bloke gone that started this here topic? he screams about ppl not answering his Q's, then i answer it, and he's nowhere to be found!!! whats going on??

 

[Carita]

I am a Christian, i do not believe in shoving Christianity down peoples throats. The people that go round quoting the bible for everything they say and do and telling ppl they are going to go to hell and 'just you wait God will take his revenge on the world soon....wait and see' that is called bible bashing and gives all Christians a bad name. ppl need to respect other ppls beliefs, i have athiest friends, muslim friends, i respect them, i love them, i do not condemn them to hell.

as to the question at hand, i have been brought up with the view that sex is a sacred thing meant for marriage. atm i am questioning that...as everyone will question something at one stage in their lives. i dont know if it really is such a sacred thing any more, but this is something I am going through. Your friends do not have to justify their actions to you or anyone else...it is between them and God and you posting this question...i feel you are judging them...which you yourself said is Gods job.

 

[LaraB]

I am a christian, and i am a virgin. I personally think that it depends alot on what denomination you identify yourself with, ie. the denomination of the church you attend, if you do indeed attend a church, as to what the basis of the morals the church has told u to believe and if they place more weighting upon some then on others.

Personally, i find the Bible gives me some good moral GUIDELINES, with which i can then base my morals off and around. I think that Islam has some good moral values, that the Humanist Manifesto outlines some decent things which i cant call wrong, and that there are other things in this world which can dictate our morals.

I was raised in a christian home and have gone ot church all my life. A number of years ago i made the actual step from being a born christian to a born-again christian, after i had thought about the immediate things involved and if i agree with them. I dont have to go to church anymore, i choose to. I dont have to be a christian anymore, but i choose to, because it makes sense to me. I dont care if it doesnt make sense to alot of you out there, it's called a difference of opinion, and from my studies of the bible and the teachings i receive at church and other documents and people that i have read and talked to, it just makes sense to me.

I have a girlfriend, and we have been together for over 20months. Both her and I are christians, both her and I are virgins, and both her and I agree that we should save our virginity until after we have been united with each other in marriage. Why? Because it makes sense to us. It would be too hard to let go if we were to break up, something or someone was to come between us, or indeed, if one of us kicked the bucket.

I can list off some bible verses and my interpretations, but most of you people wont give a damn and i will only receive critisism for my beliefs, so i will say this:

- To you who started this, i believe that sex is a sacred act of a physical, mental, and spiritual connection, and should only be performed with marriage. I believe that you should go however far you want to above the waist, but that doing things below the waist is too much of a temptation to go on to other things.

- To the rest of you, believe what makes sense to you. To all the atheists out there, i would recommend you take a look at the Humanist Manifesto, probably version 3 as it's the most simplified version, and consider becoming a humanist. They have some decent values and 'beliefs' that you'll probably agree with. Dont have to listen, just a suggestion.

- I do believe in evolutionary adaption, though not in the Dawinian theory evolution, ie. apes turning into man or anything. The whole thing just doesnt match up in my mind. I know alot of you will say that about religion, but i have my own experiences that affirm my christian beliefs in my mind.

- As for the evidence of everything, well...it is hard to prove the miracles and outworkings of a religion based upon faith. Yes, parts of the bible have been historically proven, but what about the miracles? Most of it is judged by personal experience, and such, so unless you've been through a big healing experience or some such thing, or had a revelation or something of the sort, it is hard to prove. So, to the christians who believe, stay strong. To the non-christians, good luck with life.

Thank you, and good day to you all.

lol you asked for a comment so i'll give one lol

um.... you shouldn't be telling people to consider changing their beliefs..... its not right... and besides, as a christian, your perspective on the humanist manifesto is gonna be totally different to someone who's an athiest so there isn't really much point in raising that...

lol and what about agnostics? i mean.. according to the census its dividied as non-religious, humanist, atheist, agnostic and there was one other one..can't remember it atm..

as far as miracles go, yeah its up to you to believe or not... but if you look at all the people whos sight was restored, could awlk again or whatever... so much of that has been done nowadays with natural medicines like herbal stuff, a lot of chinese medicine deals with thaht... plus.... there's all those psychosymatic (sp?) illnesses.... a few words in a book about it don't prove it....

there's no film footage, no reenactments, no photos etc... none of it can be proven... its all belief... which is what we were getting at about christinaity but i guess it applies to all religion - its all based on your interpretation of the events and how you think it would've happened coz tehre is not solid proof... and yes science doesn't always have solid 100% irrefutable proof but it can be tried and tested and proven over and over again i mean.... you can't say water doesn't boil because it's exposed to heat at 100degrees because its been proven.. however, you can't say irrefutably that some guy thousands of years ago could turn water into wine coz there is not way of proving it

i think eveything you said about it being your own view and you use the bible as a moral guideline is a good way to look at it and makes sense...but like..that's exctly what i said all along lol... that its an interpretation so no one can say "christian's do x y z" coz not everyoine understands it the same way

 

[Minifish]

okay, thanks for that. i wasnt telling all the atheists to change religions, i was just telling them to take a look at it. From what i understand of both atheist and humanist, they do have their distinct similarities, but i suppose so does any religious tradition.

No, there is no way to prove a thing. As i said, if it makes sense to you, if u can find proof to satisfy yourself and your spirituality, then go for it. If you think its great that we came from monkeys, thats fine, if u believe that all creation was began through the explosion of a small mass of enourmous density, thats fine too. If however, you choose to believe that a big great transcendent being created everything, thats great as well.

As i said, whatever makes sense to you

Thanks for picking me up on those few things.

 

[walrusbear]

question for those who are christian or know about this stuff - isnt no sex before marriage/no contraception and all that stuff a version of Catholicism - by that i mean, certain gropus or catholics and certain popes were real heavy on this but some are like meh either way its no big deal...

i know for a fact its not a "Christian" thing....

those rules were brought about as the Catholic church developed; have little to do with christs teachings. (note the amount of references to archaic parts of the Old Testament in this thread).
so a fundamentalist, dogmatic approach to religion focuses on man made rules that have developed over the churches history (for example, the celibacy for priests was introduced when the church began to lose land around the middle ages. priests were normally married and had kids who were priests who kept the church land. many were getting married and taking the land for themselves for other ventures)
it's a bit broad to say that this view encompasses all of Catholicism. there are of course somewhat progressive thinkers who have a different idea of what the church is and should be. Vatican II was an attempt to revise some of the rules (eg. approach ideas such as marriage, virginity etc. with a contemporary attitude), but much of this has apparently gone amiss.
the catholic church seems to have changed a lot over its history but at the moment, like much of the world, is fixed in a regressive; conservative mindset.

 

[Minai]

Hang on...but what is marriage these days? With so many divorces, is marriage such a "sacred" thing now? What happens if you have sex with your wife/husband only to divorce later, would you go to hell?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

As a virgin and a Christian i look at my friends who are non-virgins and are christian and i just wonder how they justify what happened. i mean, God designed it to be special, to be enjoyed and to be between two people who love each other and who will be together forever ie husband and wife.
so for anyone who's a christian and has had sex, what's your view? whats your justification?
and for those of you who are still virgins, and are christians, how far do you go before you draw the line?
im interested in what people have to say..

This is why I am not christian. I don't have to justify what I do. And I shouldn't have to. Neither should your friends. They can do whatever they like.

 

[thejosiekiller]

all these bloody religous threads are the same...but in the end its important as to what you believe

not hassling others is a bonus, i dont think the "zealots" on this occassion wanted to lecture everyone about their actions and the consequences of sexual immorality- this thread was about christian's views on sex before mariage, yet everyone rushes to prove someone's faith wrong out of their own insecurites i guess

what chances do you think you will have of shattering the faith of a person over the internet? whether you believe there is no consequence for your actions or not

i mean you all bitch about how kangaroo and maybe ella to an extent force their opinion's on others, but you are no better...

NONE OF YOU FUCKING SINNERS!!!!

back to thinking about breakfast and purple

 

[LaraB]

those rules were brought about as the Catholic church developed; have little to do with christs teachings. (note the amount of references to archaic parts of the Old Testament in this thread).
so a fundamentalist, dogmatic approach to religion focuses on man made rules that have developed over the churches history (for example, the celibacy for priests was introduced when the church began to lose land around the middle ages. priests were normally married and had kids who were priests who kept the church land. many were getting married and taking the land for themselves for other ventures)
it's a bit broad to say that this view encompasses all of Catholicism. there are of course somewhat progressive thinkers who have a different idea of what the church is and should be. Vatican II was an attempt to revise some of the rules (eg. approach ideas such as marriage, virginity etc. with a contemporary attitude), but much of this has apparently gone amiss.
the catholic church seems to have changed a lot over its history but at the moment, like much of the world, is fixed in a regressive; conservative mindset.

Thanks that's what i thought or at least along those lines

 

[LaraB]

I take it you haven't read Revelations? mate these aren't just my beliefs, you just need to read Revelations to understand what I said in that post

i have read a lot of it... and i don't believe it.. words in a book don't coinvince me that something happened...

in reference to your next post - i don't understand how you can say you didn't say that when you have used words to the same effect in many prior posts...

didn't say i cared if you were shoving it down people's throats.. simply commenting that that kinda attitude isn't helping your case because it just pisses people off even more

as i'm pretty sure i said before - i'm well aware we aren't gonna find any middle ground and as i said before a few times - i don't care what you're saying, its the manner with which you were saying it that was rude... so duh, i get that we're not gonna compromise

 

[LaraB]

ahh those were the quotes, look em up, it's not hard.
Yes, God says in the bible that sex should only be "Between a married man and woman" How can you say that can be interpreted diffently. If you disobey any of God's word such as the example above, it is a sin. That is what sin is, disobeying God's law and anything else Jesus taught us

as i said - it never states explicitly - sex out of marriage is a sin...

bad a reference as the Simpsons is lol it's right - Ned Flanders says "how can that be?! I even followed the bits [in the bible] that contradicted the other bits"....

it's all interpretation which is what a lot of people have said all along... you interpret it to mean that but others obviously don't since other Christians don't follow that belief..

 

[LaraB]

Hang on...but what is marriage these days? With so many divorces, is marriage such a "sacred" thing now? What happens if you have sex with your wife/husband only to divorce later, would you go to hell?

if you mean 'sacred' as in the religious sense lol hell no

so many people don't even get married in churches or with a religious celebrant... personally i don't associate marriage with religion... i mean.. definition of a marriag (yay for stupid random facts that stick from Legal Studies ) - union of a man and a woman, ,voluntarily entered into to the exclusion of all others for life... nothin bout churches or celebrants or anythin... although yeah its dodgy coz it kinda is a contradiction coz of the whole divorce thing..

but yeah.. so many people get married and divorce a few months later... so pointles.. hmm..maybe they're after the prezzies lol

 

[alissa_xoxo]

Alot of my christian friends often compromise their values and have sex before marriage. And they don't regret it. It's about loving the person you're with.

Christianity is dated.

 

[ella_fitzgerald]

ok, so it sounds like there are a lot of people who are christian but not living in gods way, so christianity to them is just believing in christ and not following what he said to do...

as for the marriage thing, i think as society has become more separated from religion, marriage has become a law thing and not a religious thing; hence the celebrants and stuff who leave out god of their services.

i think its interesting that christianity has become so watered down compared to what it used to be, with the sex thing. i mean, i guess the way I see it is that its contradictory people claiming they are living for christ and then going against what he said.
for those of you who arent christian, i'd say have all the sex you want lol

 

[MiuMiu]

Can I ask Ella, why god to you is a 'he'?

And FYI, no sex before marriage is not a christian thing, its a catholic thing.

And Im sorry, but no matter what you say, the bible is fiction. God 'himself' did NOT write it, it was written by people claiming to have been contacted by 'God'.

If you believe that its the truth, than surely you must believe those that have said they have been contacted by aliens. Its all the same thing.

 

[ella_fitzgerald]

ok im not gunna bible bash if thats what you believe thats fine. i could encourage you to research what you said above but i dont really care. i know what i believe is true.
god's a he cos a) the bible says so and b) its the easiest way to describe for us a transcendental omnipresent all-knowing all-powerful all-loving being. i could write that each time, but he is faster.

and.. fyi... no sex before marriage is a christian thing. its in the bible, in the new and old testaments, its preached in christian churches. its also a catholic thing. that would be (surprise suprise) because it was introduced by the same god that both denominations believe in. being the christian one here, i think i'd know that it was a christian thing, having heard it all my life. mkay?