Rudd's "Education Revolution" (4 Viewers)

[ilikebeeef]

tutoring has little to do with it, youd be suprised at how few do it... only around a third id say

Well you don't really need that many people per school cohort to do well in the HSC to get in the top 200 performing schools list, lol. You don't even need to have 10% of the students do well to get into the list.

EDIT: And tutoring does have to do with it. There is a general correlation between tutoring and performance.

its because people in the best private schools come from families that have done well for them selves through education and hence value and education and PUSH their kids very very hard (in general)

Hmm. Yes but you also get these private school kids which are spoilt mindless, don't really take things seriously and get their daddy to pay for everything.

and the money factor does come into it... it someone doesnt want to try, the parents just wont fork out the money

If they don't want to try, they would have dropped out of school and not have done the HSC.

 

[pwoh]

Too much propoganda and 'dumbing down' imo. If the curriculum is to be reduced to absolute basics, then more opportunity should be available for students to pursue learning of their own based on their interests - it's the only benefit I can see from reducing the curriculum like this.

Less focus on these national tests/reporting with grades/etc would also be nice - these only seem to stifle students' passions for learning.

If standards for struggling schools are to be lifted, I think reforming teacher training programs would be more effective. Maybe even put more research into effective methods of teaching, and other factors affecting student learning (e.g. stuff like this, lack of resources, social issues, etc)

 

[kcqn93]

Apparently there's no conics or harder 3 unit in the new syllabus for Extension 2 Maths.

WHaaaaaaat?!!!! that's no fun... harder 3unit is almost a third of the paper =.=

 

[scarybunny]

The syllabus does not tell you HOW to teach, only WHAT to teach.

So there's no way that changing the syllabus is going to make private schools level with public schools. Private schools will always have better resources, teachers that are held more accountable because parents have a high financial stake in their child's learning, and they tend to be more educated and thus value education and push their children to achieve more. They also have the ability to pick and choose their students, and most of them require that you do an entrance exam.

I think it's possible that re-introducing 'the basics' may help lower-achieving students, because it builds the ground work in English (important with ESL students and those with less educated parents). BUT private schools will not have to spend as much on the basics because their students will most likely speak english at home, have been to preschool etc. So they can extend their students further than public schools at the more involved, complex end of the syllabus. I think the gap between them will always exist, just because of the makeup of the student body and the difference in resources.

I agree that the syllabus is political, but it always has been and always will be. The syllabus cannot tell you to teach students that climate change exists and is man- made. The people who write it are not politicians, they are teachers that recognise that discussion and debate is the best way to get students involved in and critically thinking about a topic. When my cohort (who will be teaching in primary schools next year) was taught about climate change in uni, the tutor said he did not believe in it, and we should approach it like a debate. The aim of (good) teaching is to get students thinking critically about things, especially when there is so much conflicting evidence.

I don't know, I suppose I'm optimistic because I know 106 people in my course who will be good teachers who produce critical students, regardless of what the syllabus outlines.

 

[orthentix]

Sunrise tells me that they're trying to introduce 'Indigenous understanding of science' into Science.

lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol (x > 9000)

 

[0bs3n3]

Well bear this in mind; if we refuse to take action about the indigenous people who have been abused and taken away never to know their families, nothing in this situation is going to move forward. Reconciliation is the first step.

Problem is, reconciliation has been politicised.

Hasn't that Sorry Day only been around since 2008? I honestly had no idea we even had one, what do they do on the day?

 

[mirakon]

tutoring has little to do with it, youd be suprised at how few do it... only around a third id say


its because people in the best private schools come from families that have done well for them selves through education and hence value and education and PUSH their kids very very hard (in general)

and the money factor does come into it... it someone doesnt want to try, the parents just wont fork out the money

Um, maybe thsoe who get tutoring don't want to admit it? Because it's a well known fact that it's quite common amongst selctive students.

Also, I would say tha only 20% of private schools are actually really good academically, as in many cases students are too spoilt to put in any effort for studies when they can inherit parents' zillion dollar businesses fo example.

 

[Riet]

tutoring has little to do with it, youd be suprised at how few do it... only around a third id say


its because people in the best private schools come from families that have done well for them selves through education and hence value and education and PUSH their kids very very hard (in general)

and the money factor does come into it... it someone doesnt want to try, the parents just wont fork out the money

well then the problem is with QLD society, not the schools. The top schools in NSW are the selective state schools.

 

[ilikebeeef]

Problem is, reconciliation has been politicised.

Well what else can it be? How is a whole nation supposed to say sorry? That's why it's the Prime Minister's job to do this. He represents Australia.

Hasn't that Sorry Day only been around since 2008? I honestly had no idea we even had one, what do they do on the day?

Yes, it occurred in 2008. Mr Rudd gave an apologetic speech and promised to start mending the gap between the Indigenous people and the rest of Australia.

Um, maybe thsoe who get tutoring don't want to admit it? Because it's a well known fact that it's quite common amongst selctive students.

Yeah, what about it?

Also, I would say tha only 20% of private schools are actually really good academically, as in many cases students are too spoilt to put in any effort for studies when they can inherit parents' zillion dollar businesses fo example.

Mhmm. Not sure about the 20% though.

 

[scarybunny]

Plenty of private schools are no better than the public schools in the area. They may have more resources, but the teachers might not be as good (esp since you don't actually need a completed degree to teach in some of them *cough catholic schools cough*).

Depends on the area more than anything, I think. Wealthier suburbs will have better schools overall, so there'll be less of a difference between public and private schools.

Poorer areas with private schools would see a bigger difference, I think. I wish there was a view of the my school website that would show NAPLAN results as a coloured dot, so you could see a map of sydney and see how the coloured dots were grouped and thus how different suburbs achieve compared to others.

 

[ilikebeeef]

Plenty of private schools are no better than the public schools in the area. They may have more resources, but the teachers might not be as good (esp since you don't actually need a completed degree to teach in some of them *cough catholic schools cough*).

Depends on the area more than anything, I think. Wealthier suburbs will have better schools overall, so there'll be less of a difference between public and private schools.

Poorer areas with private schools would see a bigger difference, I think. I wish there was a view of the my school website that would show NAPLAN results as a coloured dot, so you could see a map of sydney and see how the coloured dots were grouped and thus how different suburbs achieve compared to others.

But wouldn't that be like a "bogan suburb" indicator?

 

[0bs3n3]

But wouldn't that be like a "bogan suburb" indicator?

Yes.

 

[Riet]

that would be way too politically incorrect.

 

[scarybunny]

Haha yeah it'd probably just confirm what everyone already knows.

 

[Malfoy-Sama]

The syllabus does not tell you HOW to teach, only WHAT to teach.

So there's no way that changing the syllabus is going to make private schools level with public schools. Private schools will always have better resources, teachers that are held more accountable because parents have a high financial stake in their child's learning, and they tend to be more educated and thus value education and push their children to achieve more. They also have the ability to pick and choose their students, and most of them require that you do an entrance exam.

I think it's possible that re-introducing 'the basics' may help lower-achieving students, because it builds the ground work in English (important with ESL students and those with less educated parents). BUT private schools will not have to spend as much on the basics because their students will most likely speak english at home, have been to preschool etc. So they can extend their students further than public schools at the more involved, complex end of the syllabus. I think the gap between them will always exist, just because of the makeup of the student body and the difference in resources.

I agree that the syllabus is political, but it always has been and always will be. The syllabus cannot tell you to teach students that climate change exists and is man- made. The people who write it are not politicians, they are teachers that recognise that discussion and debate is the best way to get students involved in and critically thinking about a topic. When my cohort (who will be teaching in primary schools next year) was taught about climate change in uni, the tutor said he did not believe in it, and we should approach it like a debate. The aim of (good) teaching is to get students thinking critically about things, especially when there is so much conflicting evidence.

I don't know, I suppose I'm optimistic because I know 106 people in my course who will be good teachers who produce critical students, regardless of what the syllabus outlines.

yes but how many unpartisan teachers do you know who would want to "promote debate" on something like global warming?

alongside dock workers they are about the most notoriously left wing, politically correct people as a group....

teachers in schools across the country are already showing students stuff like michael moores documentaries and other stuff that has been dismissed as a joke by mainstream society......

my problem is not "debate" in the classroom over such issues... its just that for example, in a history textbook ... its kind of obvious it'll be about 2/3 focussed around aboriginals and how terrible the white people are etc etc...

like someone else said, they want to introduce an "indigenous understanding of science"?

LOL. straight stick (spear), bent stick (boomerang), hollow stick (digeridoo), two sticks (clapping sticks)......

its the focus of the curriculum that will make it so laughably politically correct and leftwing

 

[Riet]

Haha yeah it'd probably just confirm what everyone already knows.

here's one I prepared earlier:

 

[ilikebeeef]

Yes.

Exactly, then it wouldn't help the situation.

here's one I prepared earlier:

If green means "good" then you're missing some green spots in Normanhurst and Hornsby lol.

 

[Riet]

Ugh, I thought of hornsby and then forgot to put a dot there, For some reason I thought normanhurst was just south of ryde, but whatever lol

 

[scarybunny]

malfoy-sama, I know loads of preservice teachers who would encourage debate. If you look at the english syllabus, there's a big ole focus on critical literacy. So yeah, show a Michael Moore doco but then discuss it. How does he try to convince us? What other viewpoints are there? What evidence has he left out and why?

We learned quite early on in our course that you can't just tell students what to think. Teaching doesn't work that way, students will gain a better grasp of the topic if they've been able to suss it out for themselves, which means looking at lots of different points of view and finding out where they stand.

I suppose I'm talking about what a good teacher should do (and certainly what my uni teaches us to do), and you're talking about what a bad teachers do.


and re Australian history... well it was pretty shit for the Aborigines. Sorry Day was an important day in modern history, I did Indigenous Education as a unit that year and all the Indigenous tutors were so positive and excited about the future. I didn't think it meant that much, but to them it was so important. So I can see why they included it. But again, discuss it. Who opposed the apology and why?

 

[Slidey]

Spoke to my maths teacher about this today. He said in maths, they're just dumbing down the curriculum. The curriculum has been the way it has in maths for a long time, and they want to dumb it down...

Fuck that shit.