Russia 'goes to war' with Georgia (2 Viewers)

[thepatinthehat]

It's good to see that there are some young people (Admiral Nelson and others) who aren't so brainwashed by the conservatism that has plagued Australia and the western society for the past decade or more. However, it is disconcerting to see that Russia, just because theyre the big bad commies, are deemed the enemy. If we held our prejudices of countries forever, then Germany would still be shunned from the greater western society for the atrocities committed in its name. I will admit i am a socialist, and am not a fan of capitalism so you know where my bias is, but i'm an advocator of social justice which in this case, the russians have delievered. Let's disregard their past, and see that in the case of South Ossetia, the russians have done the right thing. They've helped liberate a region from a nation it does not want to be a part of, and responded to the aggression of Georgia for two reasons, one, to help out the S. Ossetians, and because the increased military expansion and aggression to pro-US Georgia is a threat to Russia's national security (georgia lies on Russia's border).
if only the western world could follow this example and help liberate other states calling for independence, such as Taiwan

i've probably reitterated what others have stated, but i think its necessary to know that Russia is not the instigator of all of this, and if anything should be praised. Although perhaps they have acted slightly over-zealously

 

[zstar]

People have a hard time understanding why Russia takes a confrontational approach to NATO and the EU.

It all has to do with WW2 after suffering so many dead the lessons that were learnt in that war influence Russian military thinking today.

Russia needs a buffer zone to stop another potential invader from doing the same. This missile shield is seen undermining Russian nuclear deterrent.

If you think Russia is joking about its national defence then you better think again because ever since the Axis forces invaded in WW2 the motto that Russia adheres to is "never again".

 

[Slidey]

People have a hard time understanding why Russia takes a confrontational approach to NATO and the EU.

It all has to do with WW2 after suffering so many dead the lessons that were learnt in that war influence Russian military thinking today.

Russia needs a buffer zone to stop another potential invader from doing the same. This missile shield is seen undermining Russian nuclear deterrent.

If you think Russia is joking about its national defence then you better think again because ever since the Axis forces invaded in WW2 the motto that Russia adheres to is "never again".

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CJCa7IjLsqvaTxDYBRhaMghSM2FPKy8YLA

 

[Iron]

People have a hard time understanding why Russia takes a confrontational approach to NATO and the EU.

It all has to do with WW2 after suffering so many dead the lessons that were learnt in that war influence Russian military thinking today.

Russia needs a buffer zone to stop another potential invader from doing the same. This missile shield is seen undermining Russian nuclear deterrent.

If you think Russia is joking about its national defence then you better think again because ever since the Axis forces invaded in WW2 the motto that Russia adheres to is "never again".

Russian paranoia far outdates the Soviet Union. The real motto is to blame everything on the Moguls.
This was nothing but chest beating.

 

[Omnidragon]

Not really. I'm staying with a Russian at the moment and he quite buys the American democracy story. We were discussing abt the rise of China/Brazil/India/Russia to replace the US the other day and he was talking about how his grandfather lived and died for a system that was never going to work. I told him the system will work but it depends on who the leaders all and that ultimately all systems have its flaws. And which example did I use as a non-democracy country that will rule the world? China of course.

 

[dno]

On a lighter note, I think everyone should take a couple of seconds to apreciate some American stupidity.

http://daveandthomas.net/blog/?p=4711

and

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/chogo/1218826781621di5.jpg

 

[russs]

Not really. I'm staying with a Russian at the moment and he quite buys the American democracy story. We were discussing abt the rise of China/Brazil/India/Russia to replace the US the other day and he was talking about how his grandfather lived and died for a system that was never going to work. I told him the system will work but it depends on who the leaders all and that ultimately all systems have its flaws. And which example did I use as a non-democracy country that will rule the world? China of course.

Communism and Socialism will never work, no matter how hard you try.

Also a lot of people seem to be unaware that Russia is no longer a red-flag waving nation ...

 

[Slidey]

Communism and Socialism will never work, no matter how hard you try.

Also a lot of people seem to be unaware that Russia is no longer a red-flag waving nation ...

Umm neither will pure capitalism.

Bodyglove: nobody gave pure capitalism a 'chance', either, because it's just as unrealistic as pure communism. Western society these days is about a striking a balance between capitalism and socialism to produce a stable mixed market economy.

It's not about giving political ideologies a 'fair go', it's about creating a system that works and keeps the majority of people happy and productive whilst maintaining a maximum amount of their freedoms; something that keeps both society and the economy running smoothly whilst keeping political instability at a minimum. Id est: secular liberal democracy with a mostly free market tempered by strong social security through universal healthcare and welfare.

 

[russs]

im sorry, why do you people keep on saying that. communism and socialism just weren't given as many chances capitalism was given.

Because some people will always want it all.

Capitalism applies to human nature.. greed... and the need for power and superiority. Competition drives progress.

The two left-wing and right-wing extremes will both inevitably fail. You just need to find a point in the middle and keep balancing on it.

 

[Admiral Nelson]

Exactly. All the Communist nations either failed outright or drifted far closer to the middle of the spectrum.

 

[Admiral Nelson]

I spoke about that a page or so ago. It happens all the time in war zones. It's what happens when you ride around fast in an active war zone. As soon as the Russians found out they were press they stopped firing and took them in for questioning to be sure.

 

[Omnidragon]

Yea I reckon communism is never going to work. But democracy is not the final point either. Look at Singapore (and yes I don't regard it as democracy in the household sense). But people always explain it away bc its small. Well lets watch now as China overtakes the world culturally, language-wise, economically and militarily.

Imperialism has probably ruled this world longer than any other system - we're just in transgression mode.

 

[Slidey]

Yea I reckon communism is never going to work. But democracy is not the final point either. Look at Singapore (and yes I don't regard it as democracy in the household sense). But people always explain it away bc its small. Well lets watch now as China overtakes the world culturally, language-wise, economically and militarily.

Imperialism has probably ruled this world longer than any other system - we're just in transgression mode.

I doubt china will be overtaking anybody any time soon.

To be honest, India has a better chance of success in that regard, and even that's fairly far in the future,

 

[Admiral Nelson]

Either way, by the time we die the most powerful man in the world won't be from an upper-middle class white Christian background.

 

[Omnidragon]

I doubt china will be overtaking anybody any time soon.

To be honest, India has a better chance of success in that regard, and even that's fairly far in the future,

Big call. All reports I've see, and I've seen heaps, say China will become the largest economy in the world by 2050. Only questions is by how much. Goldman Sachs' chief economist predicts China will be double USA's GDP. And that Austrlaia will fall completely off the top 15 list as countries like Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Vietnam, South Korea will overtake us (in absolute terms of course, not per capita).

And what research/reports have you read?

In any case, China's already overtaken the Western World in sports. Look at Olympics.... USA is not even close to China. The rest just have no chance.

 

[Omnidragon]

Either way, by the time we die the most powerful man in the world won't be from an upper-middle class white Christian background.

Agreed. The power dynamics are shifting. Those still clinging to just one language (English) have a big surprise coming ahead, especially in this region.

 

[Iron]

Lol, well if we're comparing medal tallies, the Ruskies mopped the floor with America in the Moscow games, and look where they ended up! Fiddling with still tender parts of their dismembered empire

 

[Slidey]

Big call. All reports I've see, and I've seen heaps, say China will become the largest economy in the world by 2050. Only questions is by how much. Goldman Sachs' chief economist predicts China will be double USA's GDP. And that Austrlaia will fall completely off the top 15 list as countries like Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Vietnam, South Korea will overtake us (in absolute terms of course, not per capita).

And what research/reports have you read?

I'm pretty sure whatever meagre knowledge I have can't compare to your immense International Relations cred.

Do get back to me when your vague predictions come true, Nosferatu.

In any case, China's already overtaken the Western World in sports. Look at Olympics.... USA is not even close to China. The rest just have no chance.

Yeah those steroids and 'phetamines sure do help hey?

 

[MissSarajevo]

Re: Georgia / Russia

I know there is already a Georgia / Russia thread, but still:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Fox-News-12-Year-Old-Girl-Tells-the-Truth-about-Georgia

Its a disgrace the way the media turned Russia into the aggressor in Western Nations.

because its true, Russia invaded Georgia.

Big call. All reports I've see, and I've seen heaps, say China will become the largest economy in the world by 2050. Only questions is by how much. Goldman Sachs' chief economist predicts China will be double USA's GDP. And that Austrlaia will fall completely off the top 15 list as countries like Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Vietnam, South Korea will overtake us (in absolute terms of course, not per capita).

And what research/reports have you read?

even if Chinese GDP is twice that of USA, Chinese per capita GDP will still be less than a quarter of the Americans. Eitherway, keep dreaming for your chink glory, it will never happen. China will always be subservient to America and 1 billion chinese will always work at cheap and nasty factory producing goods for the western world.

In any case, China's already overtaken the Western World in sports. Look at Olympics.... USA is not even close to China. The rest just have no chance

USSR outperformed USA in almost all olympic games, and USSR is gone! China will follow suit.

 

[Admiral Nelson]

Re: Georgia / Russia

Haha.