Scurvy the new scourge of uni life (2 Viewers)

[Captain pi]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/06/12/1118514931386.html?from=top5

 

[ac/dc]

What a shame.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

whoa thats awful

 

[Xayma]

Umm scurvy... I understand they may be hard pressed financially but not being able to afford around 1/4 a cup of potatos a day?

 

[chelzmalee]

Isn't there a thing called a job? Or parents? or rellies of any kind? Honestly...

 

[neo o]

1) Again with the dumb threads captain pi.

2) Again with the random posting of links captain pi. IMO all topics that just post a link with no discussion should be locked and/or deleted.

3) Again I will repeat myself

Perhaps it's time to get a part time job then? University + University study don't take up more than 30-35 hours a week including transport unless you're in your honours year, so most students have plenty of time to at least be working 5-10 hours a week.

I've said it before, but this student poverty crap is complete rubbish. Youth Allowance + RA IS NOT HARD TO GET AT ALL, and will cover rent + a reasonable amount of food. Also, as students it's amazingly easy to get cash in hand work that won't disrupt your payments (tutoring for example).

Oh, and oranges aren't expensive, I dont think that it's the governments fault that uni students are too stupid to know that they need Vitamin C .

I've made better flames before, in similar threads, but I can't be bothered trolling for them atm.

 

[loquasagacious]

The Diatribe (fixed for marmooks):

These claims strike me as exagerated for several reasons into which I will delve.

I believe that it can reasonably be assumed that the 'extreme case' who was living on $30 a week and had scurvy was living on $30 AFTER paying rent, food (breakfast and dinner x7). Thus $30 a week was LEFT to pay for lunches, snacks, entertainment and clothing. I can see no reason for them to have scurvy. Yes that is a tight situation however it is not one in which I would expect scurvy UNLESS students FAILED to adopt an appropriate lifestyle eg rather than eating healthily and leading a balanced lifestyle they blow $30 a week on a night out every week and scrape by the remainder. This scenario would likely result in health problems, health problems bought on by choices the student has made.

There is no reason to expect the government (which means the taxpayer which means all of us) to fund YOUR social life.

The dems contend that YA+RA is insufficient. I commend them for their intuitive knowledge. Yes YA+RA is low, it is set at such a level as to ENCOURAGE part-time work as this is more economically desirable than government supported students. And with contact hours for a full-time course being as low as 9 a week (BA three courses a semester, 2L, 1T each course) there is no reason not to work.

Illustrating both this point and my previous one are two examples, one is myself the other a person I know.

I am ineligible for YA because of my parents income, due to the number of children in my family it is untenable for them to support me. As a result I work. In the school-uni break I worked 12+ hour days on an 11 day on 3 day off roster. I did this so as to have savings when I started uni to fund books, bond, etc etc. I have since taken up part time work. I get up at 4am in the morning to go to work, I do a 5-9am shift five days a week. Three days a week I tutor maths. I earn more than enough to cover my expenses. I do 14 contact hours a week at uni and attend all of them. I eat well, have a long weekend (well from 9am on Friday) every weekend, go out if I want (albeit limited to friday and Saturday nights) and do reasonably well at uni. I do 40 hours a week face to face uni and work, slightly more than I'd like, however doable, working and university is clearly possible, though not necessarily preferable.

My second example lives in tracki-dacks and on tuna mornay. He is up late, completes assignments at the last minute, is in many 'clubs and societies', he receives YA+RA+parental support, complains about a lack of time, money and food. He campaigns for greater YA, etc etc. He does NOT work, he DOES go out frequently during the course of a week.

Clearly my examples are extremes however I think they illustrate the point nicely, that is: it is not that hard to support yourself at university. It is about lifestyle choices. Some students CHOOSE to live in squalor so they can go out more frequently, this is no particular reason for them to receive additional government support.

I accept that it is harder for some people than myself, for this reason I do support making YA+RA more accessible however I do NOT support making much larger. I do support changing aspects which mean a $20 drop in rent is punished by a $50 drop in RA. This is a disincentive for students to explore cheaper accommodation options and as such the government spends our taxes unnecessarily.

Before I started uni I would have gasped and pointed out the injustices seen in the article, having been at uni, worked at uni, thought about uni, and observed the people who do live in squalor and the people who are active in the NUS. My attitude has been hardened considerably by experience.

 

[Xayma]

addymac I think it might be $30 after rent/utilities etc is paid which you would be able to live off (maybe not have a luxurious living but you could live without scurvy).

 

[neo o]

addymac I think it might be $30 after rent/utilities etc is paid which you would be able to live off (maybe not have a luxurious living but you could live without scurvy).

Considering that rent would be around $120 - $150, I'd say that you'd need a little more, around $40-45 since even mince and chicken are expensive, and you have to account for cleaning stuff etc etc with around $1000 when you first leave home for fees, books, a kettle, a rice cooker (your best friend) and a few other bits and pieces.

The NUS makes students look like scabs, and I don't appreciate anyone making me look like more of a scab then I already am. Fuck you NUS.

 

[White Rabbit]

You don't need a rice cooker! Just get the cheap $10 plastic ones from wollies and put em in the microwave! Or even cook it on the stove

Buying say a kg of mince can feed me for a fortnight. Some potatoes and peas and I'm set! Tuna is great for the budget - it's cheap! Ocassionally I'll go and get chicken and do snizles or get a little jar of kantong (sp?) sweet and sour chicken - or steak if I have some extra money. Recently it's been hard because of extra fees and what not. Theres always pasta and cheese, or toasted cheese sarnies It's quite do-able.

 

[townie]

i'm only poor because i drink and smoke 2 much, i suspect the case for many

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Haha scurvy!

the government should issue them with free sauerkraut

 

[Xayma]

Considering that rent would be around $120 - $150, I'd say that you'd need a little more, around $40-45 since even mince and chicken are expensive, and you have to account for cleaning stuff etc etc with around $1000 when you first leave home for fees, books, a kettle, a rice cooker (your best friend) and a few other bits and pieces.

The NUS makes students look like scabs, and I don't appreciate anyone making me look like more of a scab then I already am. Fuck you NUS.

True cleaning supplies could help. Its the incidentals that will always get you. Fucking gillette with his business model

 

[loquasagacious]

In a share house rent will range from $80 to $140. I'd say optimal at about $110. Assuming cheap eats and/or group cooking $50 a week should cover food, say another $50 to cover entertainment, incidentals etc and you're only looking at $210pw expenses.

Easily covered by YA+RA and some cash in hand tutoring. Easily covered by a part-time job doing about 20 hours or less a week.

I'm convinced that NUS think that students (another way of saying themselves and their friends) shouldn't have to work, which quite frankly is wrong.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

YA + RA does not encourage part time work. If you earn more than $236 a fortnight (a figure which has NOT risen since 1992 despite massive increases in the cost of living, including the introduction of the GST) you start losing 50 cents in the dollar of your payment.... plus then you lose tax.... you end up working for almost nothing, so it isn't worth it.

The income free threshold needs to be raised so that students can earn some additional income without losing part of their payment. Also, there needs to be ways for students that have to move a long way from home to study to get help. The students that face the biggest financial problems are those from country families who are asset rich but income poor (e.g. farmers and small business owners)... they need to really look at student income support to make it work better for those who really need it.... at the moment it is too easily exploited by the rich and not available to the poor.

 

[supercharged]

Scurvy aye? tell them to suck on some limes, If anyone was really THAT poor I'm sure they could either defer for a year and save up some money first, or just study part time to work more.

It's just a media beat up, no-one at uni is that dirt poor otherwise they wouldn't be there (they would more likely be sleeping under a bridge and eating feral cats than be studying on campus).

 

[loquasagacious]

Someone remind me how much is YA+RA per week?

Given that neo has established here and elsewhere that YA+RA is infact sufficient to live on it follows that YA+RA+$236 would enable quite comfortable living. In addition to this the income bank is designed so that you can work more in uni-breaks and less during term time.

You contend an asset rich farmer's child can not claim YA+RA, however from memory there is an exception made for farmers in the form which invalidates your argument. This aside I can not claim YA+RA yet I survive quite comfortably (with no parental support).

I do however agree that YA+RA is NOT enough to support those who are travelling long distances to uni. Which wold indicate to me that they need to asses their situation can they reduce costs by moving closer to uni? I suspect this is often the case and they stay for the ease of parental bludging.

 

[White Rabbit]

Most farmers kids I know can not claim YA because their fathers property is considered an assest.

YA + RA is ~ $360 a fornight ($180 week) for away from home allowance. I'm down to $330 because I got a loan to pay for inital fees and text books.

 

[Lexicographer]

Some of the replies in this thread disgust me. It may be that only a very slim minority of "extreme case" students are reaching this level of poverty, but EVEN THEN, it is far worse than any "extreme state" should be.

Scurvy is an artefact illness - it WAS supposed to be extinct over 50 years ago, with the end of the major wars. The fact that (supposedly) "well off" members of society such as tertiary students are contracting it is abhorrent. Some have asked why these people don't turn to family and friends? Well, surprise surprise, many DON'T HAVE THESE. "How about a job" you say, "uni isn't that much work". Sure, for some people. But I know for a fact that the more intense courses such as engineering and medicine occupy up to 30 contact hours, and in order to pass you often need to put in at LEAST as much of your own time into personal study, assignments etc. I could easily count up to 50 hours spent in academic pursuits on my OWN time, and this is one of the lazier med students you'll meet.

If I didn't have family and friends willing to fund my education, what hope would I have? Many of my peers struggle with precisely the same issues mentioned in that article, and it is infuriating.

Before anyone goes into the "how are we supposed to pay for these students" etc, consider that the question of funding is irrelevant against the question of basic human rights. In Australia it is almost cultural dogma that every person has the right to health and nutrition. If they are not able to maintain it themselves then it is the duty of the state to provide for them. The state is ultimately responsible for the welfare of its citizens, whether it wants to take that responsibility or not.

 

[cayte]

You have to admit though, when considering the people you see at uni each day it's more likely that they are unwilling to maintain their health and nutrition rather than unable. You can't force people to look after themselves.