Scurvy the new scourge of uni life (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Of course there is the notion that we are "investing in our future", I just think some people want way too much invested in them for the ammount of work they're willing to actually do.

 

[LadyBec]

LadyBec so you are on a full fee place? If you are on a HECS place the taxpayer is still footing a large bill.

oh yeah. Forgot about that bit of debt for a minute there
point taken.

 

[Generator]

No of course not, but given the current level of support for people in university perhaps they should stand on their own feet just a little bit more, eh?

I just don't think it's fair that someone who goes to uni and does a little study combined with some basic assignments (largely for their own benefit) get so much support... while people who go out into the workforce and make a living for themselves get taxed to pay for it.

So much support? Given what I have read elsewhere, beyond the basic welfare payments (and hecs, I guess) that support is largely what one provides for themselves.



I'm looking forward the report that will be tabled on Thursday. I'm sure that there will be more to debate when it is made public.

 

[White Rabbit]

Lady Bec - is $140 a week before or after your rent is paid? I live off ~ $165 a week BEFORE rent with no suppport from home (because mum REALLY can't afford it), and I manage. What course if offered at Albury that you couldn't complete closer to home?

 

[LadyBec]

no no, 140 a week is what I spend on rent and food.
And I didnt get in to uni closer to home. This was it.
Trust me people, studying during the HsC is a super-good idea. really it is.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Argh people didn't read what I was saying or maybe I was confusing. They act as if I am saying I am poor and suffering at uni which is not the case. If anyone read closely, they would have seen the phrase "centrelink makes me a happy camper".... I have been on centrelink payments for 2 weeks now and it is great. I still know student poverty is a problem though, because I have friends who have just been up against brick walls trying to get to uni and stay there.

The main things that are wrong with the system is that because it is simply based on numbers rather than people's real situations it leaves many people who really need help out in the cold. It is also easily exploited by the rich... I knew one girl whose parents sent her on a holiday to Europe for a year, paid her, and then she had earnt enough to be independent and get YA. Also, they should increase the amount you can earn.... they shouldn't be encouraging people to have cash in hand jobs, it's better off for everyone if they just let people earn a bit more before they lose their payments because the government would recieve tax anyway and it would help stop students from being exploited in the workplace, plus ease the pressure a little.

Also, the way the income bank works is a little weird because you have to effectively not earn money before you can make use of the income bank.... it's a little odd the way it works.

Hey Bec I didn't know you were in Albury.... it shouldn't cost $90 each way for the train, you need to get a student travel concession thing from your uni and then it is only $45... The bus is $55.... how much do the bus and train home suck haha I always get stuck next to weirdos doing the Melb-Syd drug run who want to tell you their life story for 9 hours. And countrylink is ALWAYS late! I haven't been home for about 5 months now, going home next week my mum is nagging me haha. Plus I need to work at the family business.... I bet you know of Sweethearts? Shite, you have no car in Alb? That must suck big time there is NO public transport eh! When I am home I scab my parent's car all the time lol. Where are you at, CSU Albury or Thurgoona, or La Trobe?

Anyway, back on topic...

Just to clarify.... I am not whinging and saying I am poor. Working 43 hours a week plus full time uni REALLY sucked, but I fucking did it because I wanted to be here and because I knew that if I sacrificed last year and for the earlier part of this year it would be worth it because I could get centrelink payments and be able to focus more on my course in the next year and a half.

The reason I put up my budget is to show that there isn't a big difference between living comfortably and struggling.

The way university education is going these days is appalling. It is becoming more and more elitist, and if the situation is not looked at more closely then tertiary education will become even further out of a lot of people's reach.

BTW, I am not going on a holiday, I'm going on exchange which will improve my future career prospects immensly. Plus I won a scholarship to pay for some of the costs to go on exchange, and for one of my subjects I will be doing an internship. Yes, travel is a luxury. Exchange is a luxury. But it's what I choose to spend my extra money on as opposed to drugs or alcohol... or even owning a car or whatever.

 

[Zoltan]

People don't just get scurvy because they can't afford proper food, some get it because they don't WANT to eat proper food. I know someone who came close to getting scurvy because he refuses to eat any fruit... anyway, even with no money at all, if you can afford to buy any food, you can afford to buy the sort of food that will prevent you from getting scurvy, at least.

 

[Rorix]

I suggest that the problem is with the MONEY MANAGEMENT.

How can you have a phone bill of $60 a month (shit, what you need a phone for?) and a internet bill of $40 a month (BUT A CABLE CONNECTION IS A NECESSITY) and live in a place with ridiculously high rent for your financial circumstances (move into college or something) AND save for an overseas trip and claim you can't afford uni?

 

[paper cup]

In a share house rent will range from $80 to $140. I'd say optimal at about $110. Assuming cheap eats and/or group cooking $50 a week should cover food, say another $50 to cover entertainment, incidentals etc and you're only looking at $210pw expenses.

Easily covered by YA+RA and some cash in hand tutoring. Easily covered by a part-time job doing about 20 hours or less a week.

I'm convinced that NUS think that students (another way of saying themselves and their friends) shouldn't have to work, which quite frankly is wrong.

hmm is it hard to get a tutoring job? where do you advertise and all?

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I suggest that the problem is with the MONEY MANAGEMENT.

How can you have a phone bill of $60 a month (shit, what you need a phone for?) and a internet bill of $40 a month (BUT A CABLE CONNECTION IS A NECESSITY) and live in a place with ridiculously high rent for your financial circumstances (move into college or something) AND save for an overseas trip and claim you can't afford uni?

I live in UTS Housing. College in Sydney is much more expensive, you pay for the prestige and social structure as well as the roof above your head. You won't find anything much cheaper close to UTS City campus. $40 is because I can't have a phone connection in my room to get dialup so I have to use unwired internet. $60 for phone is because I have to use my mobile to make calls for my journalism stories.... if I don't ring people up to get interviews for stories, then I FAIL so it is pretty essential. I wish people didn't put journalism students on hold so damn often though, that is really annoying.

Plus, without a phone it is very difficult to have a job. Work can't call you to arrange your shifts or ask you to come in the work. A phone is pretty damn essential. Who would hire someone they couldn't call on the phone lol.

God I regretting putting up my budget because people aren't reading what I said.... I said I am comfortable, centrelink makes me a happy camper.... but I understand what sort of costs students face to go to uni, and I understand how some people cannot get centrelink benefits even if they need it and hence how difficult it is.... geeze how many times have I said this now. I basically put up my budget to show some of the costs people have for uni. Its like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes here lol.

 

[paper cup]

Its like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes here lol.

oh oh oh well put

couldn't you go around to the people you have to interview? wouldn't be able to put you on hold then would they and if you walk there you could save on transport. yes I realise that may be impractical in a lot of situations but nevertheless.

looking through this thread has made me vaguely scared. living on ten dollars a week is not a fun prospect....

 

[loquasagacious]

Has it occured that neo and I feel like we're banging our heads on a brick wall.

In its simplest possible form oyr argument is:

YA+RA IS enough to get by on. Part-time work is easy to get and students should get it.

Therefore the reason students have scurvey is because they CHOOSE to, they CHOOSE not to live their lives in a healthy way. That is no reason for US to support them.

 

[LadyBec]

Hey Bec I didn't know you were in Albury.... it shouldn't cost $90 each way for the train, you need to get a student travel concession thing from your uni and then it is only $45... The bus is $55.... how much do the bus and train home suck haha I always get stuck next to weirdos doing the Melb-Syd drug run who want to tell you their life story for 9 hours. And countrylink is ALWAYS late! I haven't been home for about 5 months now, going home next week my mum is nagging me haha. Plus I need to work at the family business.... I bet you know of Sweethearts? Shite, you have no car in Alb? That must suck big time there is NO public transport eh! When I am home I scab my parent's car all the time lol. Where are you at, CSU Albury or Thurgoona, or La Trobe?

I know, but it costs like 30 bucks for the stupid card. I should get one though, even if only to use for the train.
omg how LONG is the train though. its like...forever. and there're always icky unclean people hanging around, and the stupid thing hasn't been on time ever.
Good old sweethearts. I have a lotta feeling for that place..... that and the bended, I like it there too. Plus live bands = happy Bec
Having no car is the worst though, so I like hardly ever go anywhere unless I can scab a ride of a friend, and the busses are so crap.
Im at good old la trobe. yey for it. (not really, im praying for a transfer asap )

 

[neo o]

Your biggest failing is your inability to be able to see the difference between an essential and non essential item. Items that are concered with you passing/failing your course are non essential. I feel that the government meets their responsibility in covering the costs of students by providing them with money for rent and food. Furthermore they allow us to defer our fees.

To quote myself

What we have learnt today :

1) Students have no excuse for starving. While Centrelink doesn't cover uni fees or textbooks (why should they) they cover the essential costs of living : food (if you live reasonably and dont buy prime cuts of meat) and rent.

2) The elemination of union fees will aid poor students in attending university, since they can't afford to eat let alone pay union fees.

3) Students who can't afford textbooks etc should defer for a year, as should students who can't qualify for centrelink (though it's very easy) but want to study away from home. They should work and earn the minimum rate to get Centrelink. If they live in the country they should move to the city - as if they are prudent they will save some money for textbooks next year and earn more than the minimum rate anyway after rent.

4) Students can potentially earn huge amounts of money since tutoring and other cash in hand activities don't reduce their earnings.

Any non essentials (anything besides rent and food) and costs relating to uni you should either :

1) Work to cover
2) Receive a bursary or scholarship to cover them
3) Failing these (and failing getting YA). Take a year off so you can receive both centrelink and cover non essentials.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I know, but it costs like 30 bucks for the stupid card. I should get one though, even if only to use for the train.
omg how LONG is the train though. its like...forever. and there're always icky unclean people hanging around, and the stupid thing hasn't been on time ever.
Good old sweethearts. I have a lotta feeling for that place..... that and the bended, I like it there too. Plus live bands = happy Bec
Having no car is the worst though, so I like hardly ever go anywhere unless I can scab a ride of a friend, and the busses are so crap.
Im at good old la trobe. yey for it. (not really, im praying for a transfer asap )

It costs 30 for the card? That sucks! The train really sucks. One day in the middle of summer I was on it going to Sydney and the air con broke, and it was a 40 degree day.... even hotter in the carriages because the windows don't open... plus because of the heat they were worried that the tracks might bend so they had to go extra slow.... it took 12 HOURS to get from Albury to Sydney, with NO AIR CON!!!!! I would be waiting for the doors to open at the stations just to get some fresh air. Plus there was a lady with really bad BO in front of me and every time she lifted her arms.... ugh! It sucked so much, it would have been even worse for the people who had come all the way from Melbourne. It is never on time, drives me crazy. I read something once that 80% of countrylink's services run more than half an hour late or something lol. I think the bus is slightly better, but you don't get to walk around and there are weirdos on the bus a lot as well. Plus you only get one stop on the bus at Canberra....

Hehe I will be back at Sweethearts working from next weekend... every time I go home to work dad has changed something at the shop. The Bended is alright eh? I went there for the first time when I was home at xmas and it wasn't bad... before that we only really had the Globe and the Termo. So sad the Termo burnt down!! That's where I had my 18th, they had the best beer garden! Fond memories of my underage friends and their plans to hide in the toilets while security checked IDs! Cactus bar beer garden is ok in summer, so is the star except it closes so early. There is nothing in Wodonga, and the La Trobe campus is in the middle of nowhere!! Are you going home in the holidays?

Oh anyway I have fully digressed in to Albury talk.

I think basically this whole argument has come down to one essential conflict.... and it is the conflict as to whether education is a right (for those that have earnt tertiary education by studying hard) or a priviledge. It's an argument we have had a bazillion times on this board anyway. In other words, it has come down to the age old argument between lefties and righties. So basically we will just butt heads over it because some people think that things you need to pass your course are non essential items while you are studying..... *scratches head* and other people realize that there are people out there who are in real financial strife but are smart enough to undertake university study, have goals and dreams.... education is the only way to break the poverty cycle...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

education is the only way to break the poverty cycle

Getting a Bachelor of Arts, or Communications, will not really help too many people to break the 'poverty cycle'. If they're really trying to get out of poverty you'd think they'd be apply to tafe to do an apprenticeship and actually earn some money while they learn.

the conflict as to whether education is a right (for those that have earnt tertiary education by studying hard) or a priviledge.

So because you managed to sit through school and get a 65 uai (minimum) to get into uni the people out there working and paying taxes should do even more than they currently do to help you.

Hows `bout we give more money to those people who are doing apprenticeships in plumbing/electrical/building instead of taxing the shit out of them for you to become some hotshot journalist and then write articles about how we should tax people even more to give money to more journalists while ignoring the people who are really working their arses off.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

May I just ask, have I ever personally attacked you in this thread? I think the answer is no.

You keep on using me as an example, when I am simply talking about how I believe that student poverty is a real problem, not for me personally, but for other people. Read what I am saying instead of getting all bitter and twisted. I don't need more money I am happy!!!! Other people need help. For christs sake, if I were studying medicine would you have so many issues with me? Someone has to be a journalist- the media is essential to maintaining democracy. And don't talk about people being lazy... for the past year and a half I have been working 43 hour weeks to earn enough to get on youth allowance plus studying.... I made sacrifices to get to the good situation where I am now. Every dollar our family has made has come from my fathers hands beating down on pizza dough... I know what hard work is, he has made so many pizzas that he has injured his wrists. I know it can be done because I have done it. But I also know for some people it is considerably harder, and there are situations where people can't find work (take Bec for instance... I don't think I would be able to find a job in Albury Wodonga easily, even now after working heaps in Sydney, and even though I have heaps of connections in Albury.... it is EXTREMELY hard to find part time work there)

But even if someone from a poor community gets Bachelor of Communications (I can't believe you have stooped to bashing certain types of degrees) they will have better job prospects and more chance of breaking their family's poverty cycle than someone who has no post secondary education. It is getting harder and harder to find full time employment without any tertiary (and tertiary includes TAFE diplomas etc) education. Back in my mum's day, she did not so well in year 12 but got a really good job in the tax office... nowdays you need a degree of some description to get in to most public service jobs.

Poverty is a mindset as well as a financial thing, and we shouldn't be putting up more and more financial and mental barriers to people thinking they can afford to go to uni.

One of my mum's friends is quite poor and they live on a property in rural Victoria (really really rural...). I heard her tell her daughter, who is quite smart, a few months ago when the daughter was saying she would like to study law "oh don't be silly you could never afford to go to university its far too expensive for us to afford"... this is part of the problem in breaking the poverty cycle. Fincncial barriers also place mental barriers... what is this kid going to do when she finishes school when her parents have done nothing but tell her for the past five years that she is too poor to go to university? Mindset and family support have a lot to do with financial survival when it comes to going to do tertiary study.

I am not opposed to funding for people who are doing apprenticeships/TAFE etc. Where did I say that? Students at TAFE etc face similar financial difficulties that students at university face. They also have to meet costs for study which can be difficult. Also, TAFE students have to pay their fees upfront as far as I know.

I think that TERTIARY (meaning TAFE and uni) study is becoming more and more elitist in this country. TAFE fees were increased last year, which is another imposition on people's motivation to study. Perhaps the Howard government shouldn't be giving tax cuts to the rich and should be investing more money in education, because the state of education (public schools, tertiary institutions) has slid downwards under a Liberal government.

Education is one of the most important things you can equip a society with, and it saddens me that it seems to be becoming more and more out of reach for some people. In the USA the way their colleges work make it really hard for people to get an education, and look what it is doing over there. Poverty is increasing, and so is the gap between rich and poor. Not to mention that absolute fuckwits like my flatmates get a college degree because their daddies are rich, while other people who may be more deserving miss out. I mean, I picked up this magazine that they send to American students who are on exchange over here and it had helpful tips such as;
"In Australia, they expect you to be analytical in your essays, not like at home. You have to do lots of research for your papers, and your professors will expect you to have analyzed the material rather than just written down what it is about. We weren't joking when we said uni was a lot tougher here."

Like, WTF! Do we really want Australia's education system going down the elitist path, where people can get college degrees without even thinking just because their parents are rich?

The accessability and affordability of education in Australia is an increasing problem.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

May I just ask, have I ever personally attacked you in this thread? I think the answer is no.

Since I also do Communications I guess my 'personal attack' on you was one aimed at myself also...

You keep on using me as an example, when I am simply talking about how I believe that student poverty is a real problem, not for me personally, but for other people. Read what I am saying instead of getting all bitter and twisted. I don't need more money I am happy!!!! Other people need help.

Well you keep using yourself as an example, so sometimes my counter to that example may include some references which you think are specific to you, but I'm really just trying to counter your entire concept.

if I were studying medicine would you have so many issues with me? Someone has to be a journalist- the media is essential to maintaining democracy.

I don't care what you study.

And don't talk about people being lazy... for the past year and a half I have been working 43 hour weeks to earn enough to get on youth allowance plus studying.... I made sacrifices to get to the good situation where I am now.

I was simply pointing out the comparison, people who do nothing complaining to get more money from people doing alot doesn't make sense to me.

I made sacrifices to get to the good situation where I am now.

Umm... such as? "I didn't get to hang out with my friends and watch movies", doesn't exactly cut it as a sacrafice.

Every dollar our family has made has come from my fathers hands beating down on pizza dough... I know what hard work is, he has made so many pizzas that he has injured his wrists.

Well he definately worked hard, good for him!

But I also know for some people it is considerably harder, and there are situations where people can't find work

Yes... there are hard situations.

take Bec for instance... I don't think I would be able to find a job in Albury Wodonga easily, even now after working heaps in Sydney, and even though I have heaps of connections in Albury.... it is EXTREMELY hard to find part time work there

She could of delayed uni for a year, lived with her parents and worked a job close to where-ever, saved up her money then gone to uni with YA. I have a hard time believing there's that big a problem finding work in albury since there are alot of nursing homes there.

But even if someone from a poor community gets Bachelor of Communications (I can't believe you have stooped to bashing certain types of degrees) they will have better job prospects and more chance of breaking their family's poverty cycle than someone who has no post secondary education

Bullshit they will, if they really want to "break the poverty cycle" work in a trade and do some hard work - you get paid while you're studying + you'll most definately get a job.
Or join the army.

One of my mum's friends is quite poor and they live on a property in rural Victoria (really really rural...). I heard her tell her daughter, who is quite smart, a few months ago when the daughter was saying she would like to study law "oh don't be silly you could never afford to go to university its far too expensive for us to afford"... this is part of the problem in breaking the poverty cycle.

Because her mum is misinformed about the programs in place for people in rural communities, YA + RA, etc. The information is out there, I guess it's harder living in a rural community to access it (tho i'm sure they could get the internet).

I think that TERTIARY (meaning TAFE and uni) study is becoming more and more elitist in this country. TAFE fees were increased last year, which is another imposition on people's motivation to study.

ELITIST? Dispite the fact that we have more people in university now than ever!

Perhaps the Howard government shouldn't be giving tax cuts to the rich and should be investing more money in education, because the state of education (public schools, tertiary institutions) has slid downwards under a Liberal government.

- It's very hard to give a tax cut to the poor, as they really pay barely any taxes at all, it's much easier to give a tax cut to the rich as they're already paying more. Giving tax cuts to the rich is also an economic incentive, as opposed to giving tax cuts to the poor which is rather bad for the overall economy.

- Public schools have been under the care of labor governments for a long while

Education is one of the most important things you can equip a society with, and it saddens me that it seems to be becoming more and more out of reach for some people. In the USA the way their colleges work make it really hard for people to get an education, and look what it is doing over there.

I think you'll find a much higher % of students go on to college in america than in australia

"In Australia, they expect you to be analytical in your essays, not like at home. You have to do lots of research for your papers, and your professors will expect you to have analyzed the material rather than just written down what it is about. We weren't joking when we said uni was a lot tougher here."

I'd say you've misinterpreted what you read, and are simply ignorant to believe american universities are 'dumber' than Australian ones.

Like, WTF! Do we really want Australia's education system going down the elitist path, where people can get college degrees without even thinking just because their parents are rich?

Do you really want a situation where everyone goes to uni just for the hell of it because it's alot easier than working?

 

[LadyBec]

take Bec for instance... I don't think I would be able to find a job in Albury Wodonga easily, even now after working heaps in Sydney, and even though I have heaps of connections in Albury.... it is EXTREMELY hard to find part time work there

it is. trust me, i've tried. a lot.

She could of delayed uni for a year, lived with her parents and worked a job close to where-ever, saved up her money then gone to uni with YA. I have a hard time believing there's that big a problem finding work in albury since there are alot of nursing homes there.

yes I could have, but seeing as how i spen all of my time after the HSC trying to get a job and hadn't getten one by the time I had to accept my uni offer, I decided that I would be better of in the long run to go this year with the support of my parents.
And what on earth has the number of nursing homes got to do with how easy it is to find work? I've only seen jobs in them advertised once or twice, and you need a degree in nursing for them - a degree thats I dont have. the fact is that Albury has 2 (or 3, depends on if you count the CSU's as one or 2) uni's in a comparatively small town, and there simply aren't enough jobs for all the students who want them. Thats the reality.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

That's a complete lie, my great uncle owns one of those nursing homes and you don't need a degree to become a cleaner/caretaker there.