/hug ironIron said:Youre all phillistines
Now Iron has to pick up the peices of humanity
Id be outraged too if the ancient Greeks were overlooked, sure. Society does need these things. It so happens that I also think that it's true, but of course we dont have the muscle anymore to impose this view. All primary and secondary is doing is providing a useful introduction to the arguments around God which have haunted or blessed mankind since the beginning. No one is saying that it should be a public school teacher's role to bring them up in the Christian faith, but they cant seriously ignore the entire concept of God for political reasons. The notion of God informs an intelligent understanding of virtually everything. It's a motivator, it's a tool to understand others, it's a comfort etc.Silver Persian said:Iron would you be happy if they taught, say, the values propounded by the Ancient Greek Gods at school? Because it seems like you don't have any particular argument for Christianity or God, you just believe that some level of moral absolutism is good. Is Ancient Greek moral absolutism as good as Christian absolutism regarding social cohesion and morality, and if not, why?
It just seems to me like you argue for religion not because you believe it but because you believe society needs religion to function...
Ahh yes those meddling kids.Iron said:This is what happens when we entrust left-wing kids with low uais to be the guardians of truth and knowledge
Let me translate this for those of you who couldn't read past all of the fluff and waffling: We should teach our children whatever is necessary, regardless of whether it is true or not or supported by the slightest shred of evidence, as long as it gives them some sense of "meaning." Of course, you would never say it so bluntly because that would reveal just how foolish your position is, but that is essentially what you have said.Iron said:I think religious instruction is the most valuable thing a human being can have. It's not fair that we foster this hazy, aimless search for meaning which has the inevitable result of people believing that they themselves compose all truth and nothing external to them is any greater. It's not only a tragic surrender of all things civilized and noble, but it's a recipe for disaster, catastrophe, anarchy. A world of selfish individuals refusing to love, to respect life, to heed to TRUTH. Community will collapse, government will breakdown, family will be dismantled. The end of the world as we know it
In what way is a "belief" being "enforced"? Students are being taught a fact - that there is no evidence for the existence of God, any more than there is evidence for the existence of invisible man-eating dragons. Students are still free to believe whatever they like - but let them have all of the facts so that they can make an informed decision. That's all that is being done here.Just.Snaz said:Well done morons. Let's enforce another belief on our students in an attempt to stop enforcing a belief on our students.
Iron said:Id be outraged too if the ancient Greeks were overlooked, sure. Society does need these things. It so happens that I also think that it's true, but of course we dont have the muscle anymore to impose this view. All primary and secondary is doing is providing a useful introduction to the arguments around God which have haunted or blessed mankind since the beginning. No one is saying that it should be a public school teacher's role to bring them up in the Christian faith, but they cant seriously ignore the entire concept of God for political reasons. The notion of God informs an intelligent understanding of virtually everything. It's a motivator, it's a tool to understand others, it's a comfort etc.
Give the damn kids a damn introduction
That is absolutely in no way what I said 2008.sstr said:Let me translate this for those of you who couldn't read past all of the fluff and waffling: We should teach our children whatever is necessary, regardless of whether it is true or not or supported by the slightest shred of evidence, as long as it gives them some sense of "meaning." Of course, you would never say it so bluntly because that would reveal just how foolish your position is, but that is essentially what you have said.
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You know the ad hominems were cute at the start but they getting quite stale really quick like.Iron said:That is absolutely in no way what I said 2008.
Luck in teh HSC!
It does? How?Iron said:The notion of God informs an intelligent understanding of virtually everything.
It's called looking through your Biblical GlassesKwayera said:It does? How?
From a foolish argument straight onto Ad Hominem - you're on a roll! Let's take a look at what you said...Iron said:That is absolutely in no way what I said 2008.
Luck in teh HSC!
So far so good... Now let's see whyI think religious instruction is the most valuable thing a human being can have.
So, religious education is valuable because it supposedly gives people clarity and meaning (since, you clearly state, an absence or religious education results in "haziness" and an "aimless search for meaning").It's not fair that we foster this hazy, aimless search for meaning which has the inevitable result of people believing that they themselves compose all truth and nothing external to them is any greater.
From there on you just proceed to make a fool of yourself with unsubstantiated waffling.It's not only a tragic surrender of all things civilized and noble, but it's a recipe for disaster, catastrophe, anarchy. A world of selfish individuals refusing to love, to respect life, to heed to TRUTH. Community will collapse, government will breakdown, family will be dismantled. The end of the world as we know it
We're only talking about public schools. But sure, one morning a week or fortnight for a year or so, given to a sensible and balanced introduction to the concept of God, punctured by visits from local priests etc - i.e. some people believe that there is some meaning to life. This is a valid view and has formed the basis of most human endevour. After recess, like every other day, we will learn about part of that endevournikolas said:Well that's all fine and dandy (not buying it btw), but an introduction in your view constitutes bible/koran/whatever studies every Monday morning?
So you like God because he is "a motivator", "a tool to understand others" and a "comfort? Not so much because you think he actually exists - you think that society would fall apart without some form of higher power to provide meaning etc?Iron said:Id be outraged too if the ancient Greeks were overlooked, sure. Society does need these things. It so happens that I also think that it's true, but of course we dont have the muscle anymore to impose this view. All primary and secondary is doing is providing a useful introduction to the arguments around God which have haunted or blessed mankind since the beginning. No one is saying that it should be a public school teacher's role to bring them up in the Christian faith, but they cant seriously ignore the entire concept of God for political reasons. The notion of God informs an intelligent understanding of virtually everything. It's a motivator, it's a tool to understand others, it's a comfort etc.
Give the damn kids a damn introduction
Because all quests for knoweldge lead to the ultimate question about ultimate truth and meaning? Because an overwhelming majority of the earth's population believe in a higher purpose and meaning than themselves and this informs the content of their life?Kwayera said:It does? How?