TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES! The Worrying rise of a conservative youth! (2 Viewers)

[Graham Trevor]

People like me dont have a problem making the world a better place, we have a problem with people that dont truly understand the issues they winge about.

Baby, that line -- how can anyone argue against that? If you say I don't truly understand the issues I winge about, Christ, what can I say? How on earth could I communicate to you the extent of my knowledge on these subjects? I mean, it certainly couldn't be done across a forum like this.

A mere debating technique, I hope you realise.

I loathe that, baby, I really do -- this attempt to discredit those with humanitarian visions as naive, as not truly understanding the problem.

I really loathe how those who believe there could be a better way are frequently labelled idealists, unrealistic, or, more recently, Marxists.


It's the dreamers who keep this world afloat, baby.

 

[jtee]

Baby, that line -- how can anyone argue against that? If you say I don't truly understand the issues I winge about, Christ, what can I say? How on earth could I communicate to you the extent of my knowledge on these subjects? I mean, it certainly couldn't be done across a forum like this.

A mere debating technique, I hope you realise.

I loathe that, baby, I really do -- this attempt to discredit those with humanitarian visions as naive, as not truly understanding the problem.

I really loathe how those who believe there could be a better way are frequently labelled idealists, unrealistic, or, more recently, Marxists.


It's the dreamers who keep this world afloat, baby.

If your so sure of yourself why dont you answer my original question?
Tell me how you would make the wold a better place. I'm just being realistic, not everybody is born with a tree fetish.

 

[withoutaface]

Yes, people like the Arrente in central Australia I believe have not been displaced. In alot of cases the Indigenous people in rural areas were displaced to more remote areas. I think we are all very aware about that. But I still ask the question which groups have moved into different areas by their own free will? In most cases Aboriginal people left remote areas to move cities, most cases leaving their reserves.

However there is money to be made in remote areas, White people seem to succesfully set up residency and buisness in these areas. Many Aboriginal people have worked and continues to work on cattle stations in remote areas. Leaving a steady job to live in a city where you are not gaurenteed a job or speak the language is a risky choice.

If the ones living off welfare haven't been displaced then what stops them living off the land as they've always done?

 

[withoutaface]

Well, jtee, if you'll just bear with me while I go through my filing cabinet -- Let's see . . . I've got plans for saving the rainforest here . . . Uh, cutting emissions, switching to cleaner energy sources . . . Oh, here's a really good one, eradicating poverty across the world . . .

It's all here, baby, if you just want to swing by and pick it up.


I must say, I really feel sick reading this thread, and seeing this mentality of "it's not a problem if it's not affecting me"

Do you propose we pump billions of dollars into these countries so that they improve? Are you suggesting some kind of aid system? Oh wait, this is already done, and it doesn't work.

 

[Graham Trevor]

If your so sure of yourself why dont you answer my original question?
Tell me how you would make the wold a better place. I'm just being realistic, not everybody is born with a tree fetish.

Firstly, I would not embark on such an endeavour alone. I do not presume that an individual could single-handedly alter the world for the better.

Secondly, I would make intercourse with trees compulsory. Failure to comply would be punished with death.

After that, I figure everything will sorta work itself out, ya know?

 

[jtee]

Firstly, I would not embark on such an endeavour alone. I do not presume that an individual could single-handedly alter the world for the better.

QUOTE]

So you accept that what you dream about is impossible?

 

[Ennaybur]

*coughlametrollcough*

 

[withoutaface]

You don't troll by being a commie, you troll by advocating the execution of all homosexuals or something similar.

 

[Graham Trevor]

Firstly, I would not embark on such an endeavour alone. I do not presume that an individual could single-handedly alter the world for the better.

QUOTE]

So you accept that what you dream about is impossible?

Jesus, baby, you really want to win this one. . .

I do not accept that what I dream about is impossible. I do, however, recognise that, alone, there is relatively little that I could achieve. In order to make significant changes it would take people coming together to affect change.

Please, read my posts before you respond.

 

[Ennaybur]

with all the "baby"ing and tree intercoursing?

 

[Graham Trevor]

with all the "baby"ing and tree intercoursing?

It would be a beautiful world, don't you think?

 

[psychochondriac]

If your so sure of yourself why dont you answer my original question?
Tell me how you would make the wold a better place. I'm just being realistic, not everybody is born with a tree fetish.

I realise I'm pretty much ripping off other people's ideas, but here are some(realistic) suggestions from www.getup.com.au

Firstly, Australia should sign the Kyoto Protocol. I personally find it embarassing that a so-called highly developed nation remains one of the ONLY Western nations that hasn't signed an agreement to AIM to reduce greenhouse emissions. We didn't even have to reduce our emissions, as they took into account our reliance upon coal fuel sources and still developing economy, but they asked only that we limit our emissions increases. Our emissions have increased at 10% over the last decade and will be at 17% by 2020. But Howard and his sycophants moan and cry about poor Australia's economy and their big business chums, and can't be arsed doing what every other RESPECTED country in the world has done.

Why can't the government invest in the same idea that Britain has? Citizens are issued with carbon credits, and heavy users must purchase credits from more "green" citizens in order to coninue to purchase fuel, etc. Industries are obviously allocated a higher amount of credits. Doesn't this provide a financial disincentive to using high greenhouse gas emitting practices?

The Californian government has recently announced targets of a reduction of 80% of greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, yet Australia continues on its spectacular rise...

And also, I'm sick of this argument that nuclear fuels are "cheaper" than other methods. It costs MILLIONS to establish the reactor and the plant, and the cost doesn't stop - employees are required to maintain the system, etc. Australia has an abundance of sun, and Howard's new solar plant is great(I'm agreeing with him on something?) - just too small a scale. Australia also has an abundance in natural gases, yet we continue to use coal fuels for power, and the solution is nuclear?! Right, I have an idea, lets stick the waste, which we don't know WHAT to do with, out with those aboriginals that choose to live out in the desert. Certainly won't affect me in my nice, rural NSW lifestyle!

Seriously, didn't anyone pay attention to David Suzuki when he was in the country? Oh wait! I forgot, John Howard is our resident expert on the environment - what would Suzuki know?

 

[Graham Trevor]

http://www.getup.org.au

 

[psychochondriac]

http://www.getup.org.au

Hehe oops. Thanks! Pays to be careful.

And sorry guys. I'm not normally that soap-boxy. Maybe still pumped from geography the other day?

 

[Ishamael]

First of all, I'd like to begin my address by warning all leftists, socialists, communists and sensible folk to just stop bashing heads with these guys. We may have the right of it, but they have thicker skulls.
I would never say that I'm too afraid to address the lesser men/shemen in this forum on the topic of socio-economic theory. (Yes fascists, your ideas are also just theories. They haven't solved any problems.) However, the level of opposition I've faced can be summed up in the following:
1) The die hard conservative/"economic liberal". Replies with questions, rarley counters with both evidence or arguement in the vicinity of each other
2) The desperately centrist friendly libertarian. Contributes no consistant arguement, but manages to argue both sides better than most.
3) The "joe". (OK, I made this one up to consist of Captain_Ghey)
Another message, this time to all of you. You are never going to convince the other side yours is the correct solution, there is an intensity of class struggle that cannot be overcome with diatribe.
Which leads me to my final point:
As an independent thinking neo-trotskyist with a soft spot for struggling communists, human and nationstate:
I hope you fascist bastards burn in the fires of the righteous struggle.
"Hate is a factor in the struggle, intransigent hatred for the enemy that takes one beyond the natural limitations of a human being and converts one into an effective, violent, selective, cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be like that"
-Che Guevera

 

[phatic]

Hmm... Doing half of the HSC economics course was enough to throw me off the path of "making the world a better place" in a sociological or political sense. I still have my high ideals, but I don't see the point in manifesting them through social activism, etc. The odds of success are too narrow, and I'd rather not become disillusioned about everything again (after failing).

However, I wouldn't discourage anyone else from fighting for what they belive in, if they think it is important. Most people wish to criticise and do nothing, so anyone who acts with noble intentions should be encouraged I think.

Luckily I have music to keep me afloat.

 

[bshoc]

First of all, I'd like to begin my address by warning all leftists, socialists, communists and sensible folk to just stop bashing heads with these guys. We may have the right of it, but they have thicker skulls.
I would never say that I'm too afraid to address the lesser men/shemen in this forum on the topic of socio-economic theory. (Yes fascists, your ideas are also just theories. They haven't solved any problems.) However, the level of opposition I've faced can be summed up in the following:
1) The die hard conservative/"economic liberal". Replies with questions, rarley counters with both evidence or arguement in the vicinity of each other
2) The desperately centrist friendly libertarian. Contributes no consistant arguement, but manages to argue both sides better than most.
3) The "joe". (OK, I made this one up to consist of Captain_Ghey)
Another message, this time to all of you. You are never going to convince the other side yours is the correct solution, there is an intensity of class struggle that cannot be overcome with diatribe.
Which leads me to my final point:
As an independent thinking neo-trotskyist with a soft spot for struggling communists, human and nationstate:
I hope you fascist bastards burn in the fires of the righteous struggle.
"Hate is a factor in the struggle, intransigent hatred for the enemy that takes one beyond the natural limitations of a human being and converts one into an effective, violent, selective, cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be like that"
-Che Guevera

....

here's what I think of that

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2615/neinnj2.gif

 

[absolution*]

there aint no left or right, only up and down mothercuks

 

[frog12986]

Personally, I think the assertion that the youth of today are highly conserative has very little foundation. Idealism is still highly prevalent in the minds of many 18-25 year olds, (Ishmael and his ilk), particularly within universities where this attitude is nurtured.

Activism itself may not be as prominent, however this does not detract from the thinking that resides with many. I for one, know a much greater number of individuals who are idealistic, leftist thinkers, as oppose to economic rationalists, or liberals.

I perceive hypocrisy to be the greatest phenomenon of today, with a growing number of idealists who fail to grasp reality..

 

[insanerp]

the thing that worries me is how little my friends care about politics
i am quite interested but as they aren't i don't really have anyone to talk to about politics
anyway, back to the topic i'm looking forward to uni (if i make the cut) where hopefully i will find friends with similar far-left views