Terror raids (2 Viewers)

[Rafy]

Well seems that the goevernment's terror amendments passed last week were indeed part of a wider operation.

400 police were involved in NSW alone, houses were raided in Sydney and Melbourne, with 16 arrested. (of "middle eastern appearance")

The police commisioner has said that he believes that they "have disrupted what I would regard as the final stages of a large scale terrorist attack ... here in Australia,"

Terror attack 'foiled by raids'

November 8, 2005 - 7:32AM

A large scale terrorist attack in Australia has been foiled following the arrests of up to 15 people in Melbourne and Sydney early today, New South Wales Police Commissioner Ken Moroney says.

"I'm satisfied that we have disrupted what I would regard as the final stages of a large scale terrorist attack ... here in Australia," he told ABC radio.

Mr Moroney said 400 officers including federal and state police were involved in raids in several south-western Sydney suburbs, including Wiley Park.

"Six male persons have been arrested," he said.

"They're currently being interviewed by police and my expectation is that those persons variously will appear in Sydney courts this morning."

A further nine arrests were made in Melbourne early today, the ABC reported.

© 2005 AAP

Massive terror swoop underway

November 08, 2005

POLICE are raiding homes in Sydney and Melbourne in a counter-terrorism operation involving federal and state officers.

Australian Federal Police said the raids were continuing, but have revealed little about the operation.

As of 6.45am the raids were still being carried out.

The operation involved AFP and the state police forces in New South Wales and Victoria.

"A number of search warrants are currently being executed in Sydney and Melbourne as part of a joint operation by the AFP, New South Wales Police and Victoria Police," an AFP spokeswoman said.

"These warrants relate to an ongoing investigation and as a result it would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this time.

"Maintaining operational security is paramount at this stage.

"We can confirm that the ongoing operation relates to the area of counter-terrorism."

Sydney radio 2UE said six men had been arrested and that 15 houses were raided. AFP would not confirm the report.

The raids follow Prime Minister John Howard's announcement last week of a possible terrorist threat believed to involve potential targets in Sydney and Melbourne.

There were reports the threat was linked to a group of Melbourne men who were spotted filming possible targets.

The Government recalled the Senate for a special sitting last week to pass one measure which widened the scope for authorities to arrest terrorist suspects.

Labor, the Australian Democrats and the Australian Greens have accused the government of playing politics with national security and trying to scare Australians.

But Mr Howard last night rejected the claims, saying he announced the changes to anti-terror laws because they were in the national interest.

 

[frog12986]

I thought it was all politics by John Howard..

All I can say is that the media, whilst will always remain cynical, can shove their theories up their proverbials. As the deputy Commissioner of the AFP stated, consultation was existent between the AFP and the PM which ensued in the PM's announcement of an imminent and real threat, and the passing of the laws that were necessary for successful overall completion of the operation...(not the actual raids, but the ensuing prosecution)

 

[loquasagacious]

You'd have to be a pretty stupid to be caught red-handed in raids after this has been brewing in every paper for weeks....

 

[Rafy]

Abu Bakr is one of those arrested.

Also reports that a suspect has been shot.

http://smh.com.au/news/national/muslim-cleric-arrested-in-raids/2005/11/08/1131212033239.html


Steve bracks is eleborating on the Commonwealth amendments of last week. Basically he says that the changes were absolutely necessary and are directly related to this operation. Without them, the events of today would not have been possible. That is beacuse the actual targets of the planned attacks are not known.

Certainly makes those who said the changes were to divert attention from I.R reforms look kind of silly.

 

[Generator]

You'd have to be a pretty stupid to be caught red-handed in raids after this has been brewing in every paper for weeks....

Not really given that the raids have been in the offing for a considerable period of time.

Edit: This is the latest action within an 18 or month operation (according to the press conference that was held at ~10am), so it isn't as though they just acted on a whim. This isn't to say that you were suggesting such a thing, but I just thought that it would be a useful comment to make.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Certainly makes those who said the changes were to divert attention from I.R reforms look kind of silly.

Well I think it was a case of the cynic in them being tainted by the partisan in them. Since there was bi-partisan support, most members didn't buy the distraction claims.

Not really given that the raids have been in the offing for a considerable period of time.

Well just because they've been being planned doesn't mean they've been aware the entire time that they would need the new laws in order to make arrests. I don't see why the paper says that labor was amung those claiming they were trying to distract tho? I'm fairly sure labor had said they agree with the government?

 

[t0mmy]

awesome, 9 less muslims on melbourne's streets.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Mr Stary said the nine men, including Bakr, had been charged with being members of a proscribed organisation under anti-terrorism legislation.

The group had not been specified by authorities, he said.

"They are not charged with being involved in the planning or preparation (of a terrorist act) ... they are charged with a membership offence only," he said.

"They are the only charges.

"Because of the nature of the offences under the anti-terror legislation the law says that bail shall be opposed and shall be refused unless you can show there are exceptional circumstances."

Police had seized no materials that indicated the nine were about to launch a terrorist strike, Mr Stary said.

"It appears to be the case that there's nothing ... of a sinister nature that was located within those premises - no weapons, no chemicals, no other instruments or any articles that might be used for that purpose."

Mr Stary said some of his clients had assisted police.

Comments you'd expect him to say, but there will be problems selling this to the public if there is nothing substantial to show that they actually were planning a terrorist attack.

 

[Rafy]

I don't see why the paper says that labor was amung those claiming they were trying to distract tho? I'm fairly sure labor had said they agree with the government?

Beazley among with some shadow ministers did say words to that effect, even though they had offered bi-partisan support of the actual bill. Ceratinly the democrats and the greens were the most vocal in that respect.

 

[Generator]

Well just because they've been being planned doesn't mean they've been aware the entire time that they would need the new laws in order to make arrests. I don't see why the paper says that labor was amung those claiming they were trying to distract tho? I'm fairly sure labor had said they agree with the government?

I was responding to the suggestion that a few weeks of publicity would have alerted those under surveillance and rendered such an operation pointless and that those who were picked up must have been stupid to have been caught. I just thought that this suggestion kind of dismisses the longevity and effectiveness of the operation and the abilities of our law enforcement agencies.

Of course, as I said, it's kind of stupid for me to be making such a point in response to addymac who is no doubt more in the know than I regarding matters such as this, but I just thought that given the way in which the post in question was framed that such a response would be a good idea.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Beazley among with some shadow ministers did say words to that effect, even though they had offered bi-partisan support of the actual bill. Ceratinly the democrats and the greens were the most vocal in that respect.

Well labor probably did want to score some points, but I'm fairly sure labor did back the laws. The democrats / greens are always like that...

I wanna see what actually comes out of this before I cast judgement, but it seems fairly clear cut at the moment with bomb making materials being found etc....

 

[Generator]

Beazley among with some shadow ministers did say words to that effect, even though they had offered bi-partisan support of the actual bill. Ceratinly the democrats and the greens were the most vocal in that respect.

Faulkner said it best - We are taking the government's concerns seriously given the seriousness of the issue and how important such an amendment truly is, but we just hope that they aren't playing politics with the safety of the Australian population. Personally, I think that that is a perfectly legitimate comment (and I'm not trying to suggest that anyone here disagrees).

Edit: That's paraphrasing Faulkner's comments to the extreme. If my memory serves (they were reproduced in an Alan Ramsey article), his comments actually made more note of the Government's past abuses and our need for vigilance in this regard than they did of the need for solidarity.

 

[frog12986]

Labor did back the ammendments to the laws...which merely meant that a specific target was not necessary...

Keyser Trad and the usuals in Bob Brown etc continue to undermine the efforts of police and intelligence agencies by proclaiming that they were poltically motivated. In my opinion Trad is merely scared that this will create further resentment and anger within the community against the extremists within the Islamic ranks and that the likes of Trad do not publicly denunciate these people and their intended plans...As for Bob Brown.. ...he should resign from parliament for deliberately misleading the Australian people (that would be the pressure on the likes of Mr Howard or Mr Beazely if they had made such comments)

However, the interesting point willbe to see where all this actually leads in regards to prosecution and the like..

 

[samuelblayden]

yes that was quite exiting

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea... but at the same time you do need people to be cautious about whether the government is political point scoring or not.... I do believe the greens and to a lesser extent the democrats were just blinded by a bit of liberal hatred.

 

[duckofdoom]

It's crazy about the raids this morning.

They've got stockpiled chemicals here in sydney.

We had to accept that this was going to happen sooner or later.

It's come as a very big shock though.

 

[Generator]

Allegedly, mind. As the Commissioner said, there's still a presumption of innocence till the judicial process comes to a close (when the accused are either sentenced or acquited).

 

[anita_wax]

wiley fucking park!

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Arresting these people is not enough, especially under a legal system which releases child molesters and granny murderors out of gaol in 2 weeks.

Behold, Mathmite, all-knowing master of the Australian legal system and expert in judicial reasoning!

 

[loquasagacious]

Obvioulsy they should be tortured/imprissoned/executed as they havn't been found guilty of any crime.

Oh and everyone is entitled to legal representation, oh and lawyers are even obliged to provide it....