The Beijing Olympics (1 Viewer)

ObjectsInSpace

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

ObjectsInSpace said:
Good luck trying to convice everyone to abandon the Olympic Games. It would be incredibly hypocritical to do that: China isn't the only place where human rights get abused. And in your own way, you'd be abusing the rights of other; some of the smaller countries get very little chance to show themselves on the world stage. Besides, you're still not considering what I said earlier: what if is there is some good in this perceived evil?

Take CFCs for example. We know they pollute and damage the ozone layer, so we banned them. But refrigerators used CFCs because they were cheap and fairly easy to make. To use them in places like Africa, home of some of the world's poorest countries, would improve the quality of life for them. Foodstuffs could be kept fresher, for longer, preventing famine and outbreaks of disease. But no, we banned CFCs because they polluted too much. Africa wouldn't always use CFCs; once they developed enough, they could simply stop using them. We wanted peace of mind that we were doing our part of the environment at te expense of some of the poorest people on earth. How can we expect them to develop when we keep holding them back?

Maybe we were right to stop using CFCs; I wouldn't know, and it's not my place to pass judgement on that here and now. It's a question of whether the good outweighs bad. In the context of the Olympics, China is bad because they're occupying Tibet. It would therefore be good to boycott the Beijing Olympics. So far, so good. But what actual good would the boycott cause? Or, in other words, how would it lessen the evil? The answer is that a boycott does nothing. In some circumstances, it may increase that evil because the boycott is motivated by clearing our consciences rather than actually helping Tibet. Therefore, the good does not counter-act the evil.

The alternative, however, is to participate in the Games. The Olympics are designed to promote properity and unity among the world. Paticipating adds to that; not partipating removes from it. Therefore, there is more good in participating rather than boycotting, even if it does not change the situation in Tibet. It simply keeps the balance between good and evil in a state of equilbrium, whereas boycotting will remove from the good. A boycott is not the answer. Not unless we can organise one that would be wholly removed from our own selfish desires of a clear consience.
Stil waiting for that counter-argument, bassistx ...
 

zstar

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Slidey said:
You mean what works for an unelected elite?

The country is fucked. Population is no excuse; see India and compare contentment, freedom, and development factors.



China is nowhere near as important to Australia as you make it sound. They're like a mosquito to us; we have so many other partners, and so many important resources that even if China for some reason decided to cut off trade, we'd quickly recover.

Major Export Partner: Japan 20.3%, China 11.5%, South Korea 7.9%, US 6.7%, New Zealand 6.5%, India 5%

Major Import Partner: U.S 13.9%, China 13.7%, Japan 11%, Singapore 5.6%, Germany 5.6%

Australian GDP: $645.3 billion (17th)

China GDP: $3.42 trillion (4th)
 
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Omium

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

There is something rotten in the state of Denmark
 

Slidey

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

zstar said:
Major Export Partner: Japan 20.3%, China 11.5%, South Korea 7.9%, US 6.7%, New Zealand 6.5%, India 5%

Major Import Partner: U.S 13.9%, China 13.7%, Japan 11%, Singapore 5.6%, Germany 5.6%

Australian GDP: $645.3 billion (17th)

China GDP: $3.42 trillion (4th)
Thanks for backing up my point? As evident there, our exports and import partners are so widely distributed that the loss of any single one, while possibly a nasty blow, wouldn't cripple us, and any losses could be recovered soon enough by strengthening other partners.
 

MaNiElla

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

ObjectsInSpace said:
Stil waiting for that counter-argument, bassistx ...
Oh no, please dont tell me that your taking that stupid girl seriously..you obviously pwned that idiot.
 

ObjectsInSpace

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

MaNiElla said:
Oh you obviously pwned that idiot.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean I should stop doing it to her ...
 
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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Slidey said:
Thanks for backing up my point? As evident there, our exports and import partners are so widely distributed that the loss of any single one, while possibly a nasty blow, wouldn't cripple us, and any losses could be recovered soon enough by strengthening other partners.
lolwut. china stops buying minerals and metals. bhp and rio collapse. banks that lent money to them take hits. funds that invested in them fold. stock market tanks. millions of people lose money, their jobs, their super

losing a finger won't kill you, but the blood loss will
 

bassistx

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

OIS, I didn't come back to this thread 'til now...
Anyhoo.

First you claim banning CFCs was bad then you say you have no place to lol.
Btw, conscience*

I don't consider one-line provocative questions to be an argument. Nor am I interested in one.
But I will say this: The Olympics = money
Money = power
Power in China = disaster

The rich get richer the poor get poorer.
I understand what you're saying, but giving the "enemy" more money and saying "Oh yeah, you're cruel, but we came for our own selfish reasons to win some medals" doesn't justify anything... We have a "moral and ethical responsibility". I personally believe humans should look out for each other. If we never did, we wouldn't last very long.
 

Tulipa

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Um, unless you haven't noticed, even without the Olympics, China has an incredible amount of power and money.

Boycotting the Olympics might be symbolic but it's not going to achieve anything in the long term.
 

bassistx

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Tulipa said:
Um, unless you haven't noticed, even without the Olympics, China has an incredible amount of power and money.

Boycotting the Olympics might be symbolic but it's not going to achieve anything in the long term.
Are you saying we should give them more money?
 

boris

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

I don't agree with boycotting the Olympics. I think politics and sport should be completely free of one another.

This reminds me very much of the Moscow Olympics, when America put a ban on its athletes competing and Australia tried to as well. I remember most athletes didn't go, but those that did had a very valid point. They've trained their arses off to get to the Olympics, they shouldn't be told by their respective countries they can't go because of something political.

Anyway, even if we say 'hey guys, you can't compete', that isn't where China is getting the money. They're getting the money from tourism and sponsorship, so unless you can somehow get the sponsors to pull out (as if they will) and the tourists to stop going, then you're going to make no impact.

Exactly what money are we giving China for the Olympics anyway? A boycott wont impact China financially, atleast not significantly. All it's going to do is be like 'Sup China, we're mad' and China are going to be like 'Fuck off'?. :)
 

bassistx

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

If athletes don't participate you cut a large portion of sponsors and tourists.
 

Tulipa

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

bassistx said:
Are you saying we should give them more money?
I'm saying that it's not going to do anything. It hasn't in the past and it won't now either.

Even with the boycott, these events will sell out and there will still be a lot of tourists going who have already booked their tickets and accommodation.

Also, the Olympics is not the biggest slice of revenue for China. Look around you, most of the products that are near you are probably made in China.
 

bassistx

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Tulipa said:
I'm saying that it's not going to do anything. It hasn't in the past and it won't now either.

Even with the boycott, these events will sell out and there will still be a lot of tourists going who have already booked their tickets and accommodation.

Also, the Olympics is not the biggest slice of revenue for China. Look around you, most of the products that are near you are probably made in China.
The Olympics are about spirit. Some spirit you have lol.
If Australia wasn't going to participate for example, I don't think many Australians would go to China. Who are they going to be rooting for?
If you go back to probably my 2nd post, I did say that everything in made in China. I try to buy Aussie owned/made whenever I can.

You asked me why I wasn't furious. I told you I was collecting petitions (as useless as this may seem to x number of people).
You ask me to look at products made in China. I already acknowledged this.
I feel this is a bit personal.
 

boris

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Um. Anyway. Taking the tourism $$$ away isn't going to hurt the Chinese government.
It's going to hurt the impoverished Chinese people who are probably going to make a lot of $$ from the influx of tourists. People aren't just going to China to watch the Olympics and go home, they're going to go sightseeing. This money isn't handed directly to the government, it's the Chinese people who are going to benefit
 

Tulipa

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

bassistx said:
The Olympics are about spirit. Some spirit you have lol.
If Australia wasn't going to participate for example, I don't think many Australians would go to China. Who are they going to be rooting for?
Well, they're probably going to put the thousands of dollars they spent to get there to good use.

If you go back to probably my 2nd post, I did say that everything in made in China. I try to buy Aussie owned/made whenever I can.
You sure this isn't personal for you? Look, like Katie said the Chinese Government isn't going to get all the money. A lot of Chinese locals are too.

You asked me why I wasn't furious. I told you I was collecting petitions (as useless as this may seem to x number of people).
It is. Please provide an example within the last five years when a petition did anything.

You ask me to look at products made in China. I already acknowledged this.
I feel this is a bit personal.
Haha personal? No I just think that this really isn't going to work. All the boycott of the 1980 Olympics did was ensure that athletes who had worked for years to get there were denied due to politics and the move did jack shit.
 

boris

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Tulipa said:
Haha personal? No I just think that this really isn't going to work. All the boycott of the 1980 Olympics did was ensure that athletes who had worked for years to get there were denied due to politics and the move did jack shit.
Yeah and unlike now where athletes are mostly paid and sponsored for their troubles, this was before the 1984 Olympics (which was the first one to ever make a profit) and before major sponsorship deals. So you know. What did it achieve except kill the dreams of a few athletes?

Nothing.
 

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Slidey said:
dhj: keyword 'occupied'. Compare with the rest of the country and Tibet's history and it becomes evident that Tibet's success is due more to its differences with China than the impact of Chinese rule.
Wrong. Look up the "impact" (i.e. benefits) of occupation for tibetan minorities over the past fifty years (google wiki or whatever).
 

bassistx

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

Petitions have worked for many years (eg PETA).
In any case people pay tax and tax goes to the government. They're helping the government kill its people. Where is the logic in that?
 

Tulipa

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Re: Boycott of Olympics

boris said:
Yeah and unlike now where athletes are mostly paid and sponsored for their troubles, this was before the 1984 Olympics (which was the first one to ever make a profit) and before major sponsorship deals. So you know. What did it achieve except kill the dreams of a few athletes?

Nothing.
I'll try and find it but I remember the news stories on TV at the time had all this footage of teenage gymnasts bawling their eyes out because they'd never get another chance to go to the Olympics cause of the whole age thing.

Yeah... Lots of good that did.
 

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