The Burkha, what do you think? Taliban or Qur'an? (2 Viewers)

[sly fly]

lol no worries

 

[Z_Nizzle]

^
ill email wasim...and copy and paste what he replies..

 

[sly fly]

uhh ok then:s

 

[somechick]

Don't really care. So long as I don't happen to be on the same bus they decide to blow up.









I was being facetious.

You seem to do that quite a lot. Maybe you should come up with something different to say in your posts instead of the same 'blowing things up' template.

 

[somechick]

Obviously, if women are required to cover themselves and men are not.

I'll make this clear. Repeat:

Men have to wear modest clothing, too, same as women. Women have power in their body-ie the ability to give birth, the controlling of the male's mentality.

Women are not objects of anyone's gaze, strangers are nobody to judge them and say "oh, she's not as pretty as the girl i saw before" or "shit, that girl is so much hotter than my wife/girlfriend". There should be no basis for comparison on that level.

There are obvious biological differences separating the sexes. This includes from hormones to body parts. As stated before, women dont have penises and males dont have boobs. Men have less parts than women. Women have more power in their physionomy, and the ability to control this power is a matter of one's own inclination, ie you do what you want with your face/body.

Men aren't sex demons, that's a very extremist perspective. They have a higher sexual vigour than females. That was the point.

 

[lil_star]

Congrats somechick your doing a good job

 

[googooloo]

I'll make this clear. Repeat:

Men have to wear modest clothing, too, same as women. Women have power in their body-ie the ability to give birth, the controlling of the male's mentality.

Women are not objects of anyone's gaze, strangers are nobody to judge them and say "oh, she's not as pretty as the girl i saw before" or "shit, that girl is so much hotter than my wife/girlfriend". There should be no basis for comparison on that level.

There are obvious biological differences separating the sexes. This includes from hormones to body parts. As stated before, women dont have penises and males dont have boobs. Men have less parts than women. Women have more power in their physionomy, and the ability to control this power is a matter of one's own inclination, ie you do what you want with your face/body.

Men aren't sex demons, that's a very extremist perspective. They have a higher sexual vigour than females. That was the point.

Good one. This is the point of it all. Alhamdullilah. SomeChick can I use this to quote,a nd tell ppl off when they are talking crap bout the whole cover up situtation with Muslim girls?

 

[googooloo]

Originally Posted by Z_Nizzle
2. By subject i mean looking beyond ones physical attributes and object is an aesthetic (artistic/ absolute) quality. which is why when something is objectified it ceases to be subject because we can no longer percive or comprehend by just looking at surface qualities.

Sorry, but I do not understnad th way you have explained your conept. Can you please use more lamens terms for hte rest of use who may not get it as well as I. Damn I sound stupid right now. But I am not..I swear! I just do not know as much as you, obviously. But do not bag out the learner, cause the leaner can only put into practise what he or she has learnt..yah know?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Men aren't sex demons, that's a very extremist perspective. They have a higher sexual vigour than females. That was the point.

A highly scientific and well-backed claim I see.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Yes, that's right



Not all Muslims are Arab and not all Arabs are Muslim. Even some of the Muslims who are Arab don't come from the desert. I'm Muslim and I've never been to the desert in my life.
.

Read what I said.

Islam as a religion comes from desert, hot regions. It does. I don't care where you're from, because that's not what I said. I said that the religion comes from there. If there was religion coming from Antartica, we'd probably do stupid things like ritual digging of holes symbolising digging for fish.

I dont see how colour has anything to do with modesty. I think it's more an expression of individuality than to attract attention and thus be immodest. Personally, I prefer to wear dark colours. However, I always wear a colourful scarf because in Western societies such as Aus, wearing all black seems to scare/intimidate people as well as give them the wrong impression of Islam.

Well, all the Muslims that dress in white to go to mosques disagree with you. Maybe you should take it up with them?

I'm sure that they'd agree with me that wearing the scarf and wearing a bright scarf is a contradiction in purposes. They wear scarfs to make themselves 'not just a [sex/attractive/pretty] object' but they make the scarfs more attractive? Do you see the stupidity? They're wearing scarfs to hide their prettiness, but the scarfs themselves are pretty? What a stupid idea.

You, like the Jews that practice kosherness, need to get out of tradition that had a practical purpose. Kosher laws are, like the word means, clean. They were intended to stop people getting sick. You didn't have sex with a woman during her period because it's dirty. You didn't eat pork because cooking devices were ineffective. If there was mould/mildew in your house, you could get sick.

Scarfs come from a similar root and have now been turned into a tool of oppression. After the nasty men in your culture realised that it dehumanises women and turns them into a nameless, faceless object, they decided it was a great idea to use them.

There is no logical reason for a woman to wear one. They're a practical inconvenience, they don't make you look less attractive, you see empowered women (like going to Uni, teachers, etc) wearing them.

Muslim women DO NOT have to wear the burqa. If they choose to wear it then I don't see how it is degrading them. Just as Muslim sheikhs (the male ones) wear the long loose clothes with the turban > they don't have to, but if they choose to then that isn't degrading them

I think the difference is that the Muslim sheikhs can stop wearing them, whereas a lot of muslim women (the majority of them- in Saudi, in Iraq, in Afghan, etc) will get the crap beaten out of them if they take them off.

 

[tempco]

A highly scientific and well-backed claim I see.

male sexual arousal is primarily caused by visual stimuli. female sexual arousal is primarily caused by touch and thoughts.

that's the reason why porn is popular amongst males, and romance novels are popular with females.

Since men have adapted to become more responsive to visual stimuli, male sexual fantasies have become dominated by visual imagery, while female sexual fantasies place emphasis on the personal characteristics of the partner and the emotional context of the encounter.

Women generally don't buy magazines portraying naked men because sexual stimulus to women is derived more from touch and thought. Seduction with women is mental, which is one reason many women find a man's interest in pornography for self-gratification to be disgusting. Women fantasize and create an entire scenario within their heads. Men look at a picture and concentrate solely on the action.

obviously, the validity of these sites can be questioned - but i tend to agree with the basic gist of what both websites are saying.

also, men have more testosterone than females - testosterone regulates sexual drive and aggression.

 

[sly fly]

Read what I said.

Islam as a religion comes from desert, hot regions. It does. I don't care where you're from, because that's not what I said. I said that the religion comes from there. If there was religion coming from Antartica, we'd probably do stupid things like ritual digging of holes symbolising digging for fish.

If that's what you meant then yes your right, Islam comes from Saudi Arabia, a hot region. Though if i remember correctly, u said MUSLIMS come from the desert and not Islam.

Well, all the Muslims that dress in white to go to mosques disagree with you. Maybe you should take it up with them?

I'm sure that they'd agree with me that wearing the scarf and wearing a bright scarf is a contradiction in purposes. They wear scarfs to make themselves 'not just a [sex/attractive/pretty] object' but they make the scarfs more attractive? Do you see the stupidity? They're wearing scarfs to hide their prettiness, but the scarfs themselves are pretty? What a stupid idea.

Well your wrong in saying they'd agree with you. A few might, but the majority wouldn't. I'll give u an example. The CEO/head person (or whatever the head position is called) at my local mosque wears very bright colours for some of the reasons I mentioned before. She was elected by the Muslim community so obviously if they thought she was not a good representation of what a good Muslim should be, then they wouldn't have elected her. There were actually lots of worthy candidates and she was chosen on the basis of her (surprise surprise) religiousness.

If we wore black scarfs all the time, we'd constantly be asked questions like ''oh you poor thing, are ur parents/husband making you wear that thing'', ''are you a Muslim goth'', blah blah blah which is really annoying.

I really don't feel that wearing a pretty scarf or a bright coloured scarf has any sexual connotations associated with it as opposed to a lack of clothing. I think it just makes you look well presented. And anyway, when you see a girl wearing a scarf, you immediately know she's out of bounds.

You, like the Jews that practice kosherness, need to get out of tradition that had a practical purpose. Kosher laws are, like the word means, clean. They were intended to stop people getting sick. You didn't have sex with a woman during her period because it's dirty. You didn't eat pork because cooking devices were ineffective. If there was mould/mildew in your house, you could get sick.

Scarfs come from a similar root and have now been turned into a tool of oppression. After the nasty men in your culture realised that it dehumanises women and turns them into a nameless, faceless object, they decided it was a great idea to use them.

Im not gonna bother with this, this is getting repetitive.

There is no logical reason for a woman to wear one. They're a practical inconvenience, they don't make you look less attractive, you see empowered women (like going to Uni, teachers, etc) wearing them.

Practical inconvenience? You've obviously never wore one. They act as a permanent umbrella, a protective device against lice and being shat on by birds, keeps your neck warm in winter lol. Na but seriously.....Muslim women wear them for a variety of reasons. The paramount reason is because it is an order from God and they have that much faith in their God, and in the basics of their religion (eg: the existence of god > the unshaken certainty of Islam as a religion >heaven and hell etc etc) that they will carry out anything he orders us to, in the hope of seeking his pleasure and avoiding his wrath. Other reasons are things like protection, modesty etc (whether u think it is a device that implements these things or not, girls who wear them obviously do).

How do they not make you less attractive when they cover your breasts, your hair, your ass, your body shape etc

and why shouldn't empowered women wear them? For the fifty millionth time, hijab isn't about unempowering women or whatever misconceptions the West has about it.

I think the difference is that the Muslim sheikhs can stop wearing them, whereas a lot of muslim women (the majority of them- in Saudi, in Iraq, in Afghan, etc) will get the crap beaten out of them if they take them off.

Like I said before, if someone freely chooses to wear it then in my view, that isn't being degraded. If they ''get the crap beaten out of them'' as u suggest, then that doesn't mean they are degraded while they were actually wearing them which is the issue at hand here.

 

[tempco]

There is no logical reason for a woman to wear one. They're a practical inconvenience, they don't make you look less attractive, you see empowered women (like going to Uni, teachers, etc) wearing them.

making a women physically less attractive isn't the be and end all of the headscarf.

there is no universal reason why muslim women wear the scarf, apart from it being a command of god. millions of muslim women wear the scarf for a million different reasons.

yes, the western feminist revolution was linked a "dress reform". that doesn't mean it applies to all societies.

 

[fashionista]

why does everyone care so much? why can't it just be accepted that (in the majority of cases) this is the woman's decision and she doesn't need saving. Conversely there could be thousands of arguments about women wearing bikinis and sexual objectification etc. but again this is the woman's own decision and she doesn't need saving either. Live and let live, there are worse things happening in the world than a woman being fully clothed.

 

[sly fly]

why does everyone care so much? why can't it just be accepted that (in the majority of cases) this is the woman's decision and she doesn't need saving. Conversely there could be thousands of arguments about women wearing bikinis and sexual objectification etc. but again this is the woman's own decision and she doesn't need saving either. Live and let live, there are worse things happening in the world than a woman being fully clothed.

lollll well said, I especially like the bit in bold. Btw, this was originally a discussion about the burqa, maybe we should get back on topic if it is to be discussed further.

 

[fashionista]

Read what I said.

Well, all the Muslims that dress in white to go to mosques disagree with you. Maybe you should take it up with them?

Thank you Mr. Expert on Islam. Not every Muslim that goes to a mosque wears white, it's just that those who do are often of west asian descent where men's clothes are often colourless or bland. I've seen many people who are a living contradiction to what you have just said and they are extremely pious people.

Scarfs come from a similar root and have now been turned into a tool of oppression. After the nasty men in your culture realised that it dehumanises women and turns them into a nameless, faceless object, they decided it was a great idea to use them.

so you've conducted an extensive survey of every single Muslim man and woman in the world and have arrived at this conclusion based on pure fact?
It's a woman's decision alone (in most cases). And no, I don't believe one's identity lies in their hair, and by covering it you have become a 'nameless, faceless object'. That is about as stupid as saying all men with short hair are lacking identity.

There is no logical reason for a woman to wear one. They're a practical inconvenience, they don't make you look less attractive, you see empowered women (like going to Uni, teachers, etc) wearing them.

Have you worn one? If you have and you are speaking from personal experience then you are entitled to believe so. And you're quote there is a direct contradiction to your previous statement about women becoming nameless, faceless objects, hence proving that wearing the head scarf doesn't hinder a woman from becoming empowerd.

 

[Comrade nathan]

male sexual arousal is primarily caused by visual stimuli. female sexual arousal is primarily caused by touch and thoughts.

that's the reason why porn is popular amongst males, and romance novels are popular with females.

Thats social not biologocial. Again it does not explain why some cultures are able to go about everyday life with women no covering breast or in some cultures vaginas. In these societies if you watch clips you notice the man wont take much notice of the genitals of the naked women.

Now someone tried to explain that with some psudeo social darwinism, one of the girls in this thread.

It just doesn't hold up though.

 

[Mumma]

How about someone shows me a verse from the quran that says women need to wear the hijab (cover their hair). Because i swear to you, you will not find one.

 

[tempco]

How about someone shows me a verse from the quran that says women need to wear the hijab (cover their hair). Because i swear to you, you will not find one.

if the quran was the only thing muslims have to go by, we wouldn't have to pray five times a day.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Thank you Mr. Expert on Islam. Not every Muslim that goes to a mosque wears white, it's just that those who do are often of west asian descent where men's clothes are often colourless or bland. I've seen many people who are a living contradiction to what you have just said and they are extremely pious people.

I lived in an Islamic country for a year, I think I have validity when I speak about it. Not to mention the fact that I don't say 'Thank you Mr. Expert', which gives my oppinion at least 500 times more validity than yours. (moonlight, if you say anything about ad hominem here, you're going to die)

so you've conducted an extensive survey of every single Muslim man and woman in the world and have arrived at this conclusion based on pure fact?
It's a woman's decision alone (in most cases). And no, I don't believe one's identity lies in their hair, and by covering it you have become a 'nameless, faceless object'. That is about as stupid as saying all men with short hair are lacking identity.

Yes, I've conducted an extensive survey of every single Muslim man. All the Muslim men that I've met don't count for anything untill they're in a survey.

Have you worn one? If you have and you are speaking from personal experience then you are entitled to believe so.

Of course. I'm sorry:

ATTENTION: EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON BOS:
You are not allowed to speak about this issue until you've gone out and worn a burqa for a day.

Although I will add that I made a dishdasha/thobe and have worn it twice to Egyptology conferences.