Uni Students - VSU vs. USU ? (1 Viewer)

[MoonlightSonata]

lol....I try my best

The poll is irrelevant because we know what the ending is. The neo liberal wet dream of destroying unions is gonna happen.

Even since the day Abbot and Costello started writing for the HR Nicholls society about their dirty (sexual?) fantacies of unions dying, they have never stopped pushing towards ultimate conservative orgasm which is the total destruction of all unions.

hahahha

bhahahahaha

I am speechless... I have no speech

 

[Rorix]

I thought it was pretty good

 

[Comrade nathan]

Hold up, do we have to join the Union. I thought it was voluntary anyway. I'm only new to the Univerisity, so i don't have a clue.

Does the union run like other unions?

I thought they were just a play thing, and only really worried about making uni a fun time, with jackass parties and stupid annoying games.

 

[townie]

i support USU, i may not like paying $590, but i still do it, just like i dont like paying taxes, but pay them anyway, if i should ever need a hospital, then it's there, state schools are there if i want them, roads r there if i want them, the ABC is there if i want it. nobody raises the argument that taxes shudnt be paid if u dont use the services they provide.

i happened to like the fact that today i only had to pay $3.60 for two much needed drinks, sure, i coulda got it cheaper @ woolies, but there isnt a woolies on campus.

i think many people's problems come from the fact that it's called a union, maybe the $590 shud be called a General Services Fee or some-such.

my only quibble @ USYD is the amount that goes 2 sport, that shits me, i think it gets more than it needs. but just like i think private schools get 2 much money, i still pay for them in taxes. (albiet sofar only $450)

so yay for USU

 

[Rorix]

i support USU, i may not like paying $590, but i still do it, just like i dont like paying taxes, but pay them anyway,

analogy is stupid

if i should ever need a hospital, then it's there, state schools are there if i want them, roads r there if i want them, the ABC is there if i want it.

you could pay for these things if you weren't paying tax

nobody raises the argument that taxes shudnt be paid if u dont use the services they provide.

only because you hang out with dudes that don't pay tax

i happened to like the fact that today i only had to pay $3.60 for two much needed drinks, sure, i coulda got it cheaper @ woolies, but there isnt a woolies on campus.

You didn't pay 3.60. You paid 403.60. Or whatever.

i think many people's problems come from the fact that it's called a union, maybe the $590 shud be called a General Services Fee or some-such.

no. i'd be questioning where my general service fee was going.

my only quibble @ USYD is the amount that goes 2 sport, that shits me, i think it gets more than it needs.

WELL IF YOU NEED THE SPORT THEN YOU WILL BE GLAD ITS THERE! I THINK TOO MUCH OF MY TAX DOLLARS GOES TO THE ELDERLY,I THINK THAT THEY GET MORE THAN THEY NEED. :rooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooleyes:

but just like i think private schools get 2 much money, i still pay for them in taxes. (albiet sofar only $450)

bad analogy

so yay for USU

your post sucked

seriously it did
it didn't say anything useful at all, was self contradictory and relied on a basic analogy from which no appropriateness was drawn to USU other than that you pay money

 

[Minai]

When the government puts up your HECS fees, or introduces some crummy tax to your Uni, your union wont be there, or it will be an underfunded crummy piece of crap...

...and that's irrelevant??

As if the union/src will be relevant anyway, as if the government cares what a bunch of ragtag student politicians think. They'll increase HECS without student support, because it's supported by the majority of Australians (since they, you know, won the election quite convincingly)

 

[townie]

rorix, i believe ur post was the one that sucked, u deconstructed my post without any backing up except ur own opinion, i clearly explained that whilst i dont like my money going so much to sport, i still put up with it.

the tax analogy is perfectly usable. people pay taxes for services. peoeple pay union fees for services. all australians who work pay income tax. all students @ uni pay union fees. some services by tax are not used by all australians e.g. centrelink. some uni services are not used by all uni students e.g. queerspace. the analogy is actually the closest u'll get to perfection.

btw, almost all my friends have jobs and pay taxes, as do my parents, so dont tell me who i hang out with

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I can't see the problem, more than likely alot of 'services' will end up being funded by universities...
they might slightly increase hecs fee's, but i doubt that they'll support political campaigns.

Student representation will still be done, i imagine there'll still be groups to do this.

 

[Phanatical]

I support the university administering a smaller student services levy, and funding the Union and SRC that way. If it's done like this, we can guarantee all the important funding remains where it does, and it not being all soaked up by the political groups.

Under VSU, any student fees paid will almost certainly be spent with first priority given to the politics of the dominant political faction on the board, whether it's the dirty left or the dirty right.

 

[mr EaZy]

i dont like paying them high union fees -mine are due next week and i havent paid yet.
but our union does a lot of work supporting the students and it makes more sense if it was compulsory. everyone puts in their share and the uni can work better.

this is my opinion based on what ive read here on BOS
so USU

 

[Xayma]

rorix, i believe ur post was the one that sucked, u deconstructed my post without any backing up except ur own opinion, i clearly explained that whilst i dont like my money going so much to sport, i still put up with it.

the tax analogy is perfectly usable. people pay taxes for services. peoeple pay union fees for services. all australians who work pay income tax. all students @ uni pay union fees. some services by tax are not used by all australians e.g. centrelink. some uni services are not used by all uni students e.g. queerspace. the analogy is actually the closest u'll get to perfection.

btw, almost all my friends have jobs and pay taxes, as do my parents, so dont tell me who i hang out with

The tax analogy isn't suitable. I have had multiple posts on it after Asquithian used it and he himself said it was a terrible reason.

Reasons why USU and Taxation can't be compared:

Tax:
Paid over the year at each income (if not there is an option to)

Compulsory Union Fees:
Paid at one point, with very little leeway (even if you owe tax you have months to get it in).

Tax
On a sliding scale of income

Compulsory Union Fees:
Flat rate, all students pay the same, it doesn't matter if they earned $40 000 last year or $0.

I suppose you could remove the sliding scale for GST, but oh wait, thats all dependent on how much you use services and how much goods you buy.

 

[Phanatical]

Ironically, Union fees stuff up those who need the services of the union the most.

 

[Minai]

Rep to Xayma, exactly right.
If the government introduced Union fee brackets, similar to the tax brackets, then it'd be a fairer system.

 

[Estel]

Another thing is that the overwhelming majority of Australian's support the system of democracy and the elected government to which the tax revenues flow. Do the union and SRC share that same broad base of support?

 

[townie]

Another thing is that the overwhelming majority of Australian's support the system of democracy and the elected government to which the tax revenues flow. Do the union and SRC share that same broad base of support?

in the 2004 election, the Two-party preferred vote for the coalition was 52.74%, and 40.47% of first preference votes, i'd hardly call that an "overwhelming majority" of people supporting the elected government.

 

[Xayma]

Umm Im sure more than 52.47% support democracy, which is what Estel was saying, and the principle of a democratically elected government to which taxes flow, ie you dont see Liberal supporters getting in a fuss when they have to pay taxes to a Labor Government.

Whereas the same support for unions and SRC's is not shared, no matter who controls them.

Yeah that would go down real well

I believe the wealthier would be crying unfair and 'communist!'

It might not go down well, however, it is really the only way it could be compared to taxes. However, here is the problem, would you base it on their own income, or the parents ie would it work in a similar way to centrelink payments or only on personal income?

 

[Rorix]

rorix, i believe ur post was the one that sucked

i disagree

u deconstructed my post without any backing up except ur own opinion

No, I had plenty of points which you refused to acknowledge simply because you either could not comprehend that it was a point or you had no response to such point

for example, that the discounts you get from union fees are only discounts if you save enough to make up for the $xxx dollars that you spend on said fees.

i clearly explained that whilst i dont like my money going so much to sport, i still put up with it.

No you didn't. You complained about people complaining about funding allocations and then you complained about funding allocations.

people pay taxes for services. peoeple pay union fees for services.

I do believe it is the services that are provided by union fees which are under question here. You can't assume what you are striving to prove.

all australians who work pay income tax. all students @ uni pay union fees.

The only real similarities, as Xayma pointed out, is that they both involve money.

some services by tax are not used by all australians e.g. centrelink. some uni services are not used by all uni students e.g. queerspace.

Actually, centelink will effectively 'be used' by Australian citizens albeit indirectly as the reduction in structual unemployment will create various economic benefits and lead to improved living standards.

btw, almost all my friends have jobs and pay taxes, as do my parents, so dont tell me who i hang out with

Once again you take the mundane literal interpretation when what I meant was quite clear. I was obviously stating that people who pay tax do complain about where their tax dollars go. You asserted that they do not. I can cite numerous examples of citizen outrage over the apparent misuse of tax dollars. Do you wish for me to do so?

 

[Enlightened_One]

I still reckon for the meagre amount of money I paid to VSU I'm getting a good deal. The other a day a woman rang me about a job fifty k's away. One I wiuldn't have found on my own. There's transport to and from there. That's just one of the many things the union has helped me with.

They give away free food and all sorts of things throughout the years that add up. That, coupled with the services they provide such as the emplyoment service and free bus during exam times is pretty good for what I paid them. It was a damn sight less than I paid for my text books anyway.

 

[Minai]

Yeah that would go down real well

I believe the wealthier would be crying unfair and 'communist!'

They put up with the tax system, so they should put up with that.

And Xayma raises a good point, if it were to be based on individual incomes, then it wouldn't work, it'd have to be based on parents incomes. (And then you'd have to have that whole independance testing similar to centrelink youth allowance).

 

[Generator]

On a related note... Was anyone just listening to Hack on JJJ? It seems as though the Liberal group at UNE is causing quite a stir (they hold a majority on the student council (not the union) with the help of the Nationals council member)...