Use of the word 'racism' (1 Viewer)

[Serius]

Re: the word 'racism'

I think alot of what you claim is quite contraversial serius...

huh? a few things maybe, but iam not saying this stuff out of the blue, theres evidence for everything i said and i have a valid point do i not?

 

[Captain pi]

Re: the word 'racism'

Eh, it bugs me when people try to safeguard their asses by prefacing a "racist" remark with "I'm not racist, but.."

Call this an unfair generalization if you must, but old people are no good at everything.

[comment]10 characters[/comment]

 

[Captain pi]

Re: the word 'racism'

Thats funny, i didnt see the Normans getting masacred, having their water supply poisoned, raping of women and children,and pretty much a full on genocidal attack on a race commited back then, i dont see any Normans getting their balls chopped off and scrotum used as a tabacco pouch, i didnt see any attrocities, such as using babies heads os soccer balls commited i didnt see large scale massacres such as the Bell Falls Gorge massacre being commited,
AND THEN THE EVIDENCE OF THESE CRIMES COVERED UP

…

(This is not a comment on the content, rather the way it was expressed.)

I think, while repetition is generally effective, you should be careful as to what you are repeating. In the above case, because you are repeating "I didn't see[object]", it focuses the reader's attention on it for longer than usual; as you actually didn't see either event, your expression is not as convincing or persuasive. You should have used a different verb than "see".

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Clearly mathmite wasn't talking about native title, he just meant that if the person believed those things so strongly than he/she should give his/her house to aborigines as proof.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: the word 'racism'

You give your (or your parents) house and land back to the aboriginals, and then i'll believe what you're saying. You're just as bad as those "uncivilised barbarians" by staying here in Australia and using its resources.

We never claimed that.

Us: We must recognise the atrocities of the past.
Mathmite: If you believe that then give your land back!
Us: ....

Furthermore, I would note that Australia is a land of freedom and tolerance. You are putting yourself out there as distinctly un-Australian by holding such attitudes.

 

[Captain pi]

Re: the word 'racism'

We never claimed that.

Us: We must recognise the atrocities of the past.
Mathmite: If you believe that then give your land back!
Us: ....

Mathmite forgets that one does not have to give private land back literally to award adequate compensation.

Furthermore, I would note that Australia is a land of freedom and tolerance. You are putting yourself out there as distinctly un-Australian by holding such attitudes.

Please don't use the word "un-Australian": it degrades your otherwise intelligent posts.

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

Re: the word 'racism'

is the aboriginal / australian situation like the palestine / israel situation?

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: the word 'racism'

We never claimed that.

Us: We must recognise the atrocities of the past.
Mathmite: If you believe that then give your land back!
Us: ....

Furthermore, I would note that Australia is a land of freedom and tolerance. You are putting yourself out there as distinctly un-Australian by holding such attitudes.

Mathmite isn't saying that we must give their land back as a response to historical memory... He's correctly saying that if you want to be true to the Aboriginal ideology, their land must be given back.

If you acknowledge that the Aborigines are the true and original owners of this land, it must be given back to them. To them, land isn't an item bought and sold, it's part of their belief system.

Personally, I think that the past was atrocious, but then again I don't think white people have historically ever pretended to be the most caring race of people. Unfortunately, that's changing with this over-PC 'we must study them, let them live, and learn!!' anthropological bullshit. That combined with the 'we're a tolerant society! You can ALL come in, enjoy our wellfare, rape our women, and do what you want!' mentality is destroying my way of living inside-out.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: the word 'racism'

is the aboriginal / australian situation like the palestine / israel situation?

No. In Australian history, there are clear arguments:

'Who owns Australia?'
1. A piece of land is totally owned by whoever buys it, settles it, or takes it by force. The conquered and the conquerors can now live together with only minor disturbances.
2. Yay! Go Leftism! Australia is traditionally owned by The Aboriginal People. They have more right to this land because they came over here in canoes about 10,000 years earlier than us. Their belief systems don't have room for us. Pity that they use that 'system' just as a banner, and really don't live by it...

'Who owns Israel?'
1. Mohammed is god. We own the place, along with 20 other Islamic countries. We were here first. Fortunately, we have support of a billion people, and growing. Doubly fortunate is that these billion people are not only growing at a rate of 2% a year, but are growing more and more restless with Western hypocrisy.
2. God is god. We own the place, America and Britain gave it to us. We were here first. Unfortunately, we're pacifists and will only react to Muslims killing us. Boohoo. Jew as eternal victim, etc etc.

 

[iwannarock]

the funniest thing i've seen is on one of those john safran shows where he noticed that some houses have a sign saying "we support aboriginal land rights" or something similar. it was some particular suburb where there were a lot of signs like that.

so he got some aboriginal people to dress up all tribal, and they went to knock on the door of one of those houses. they said that they couldn't help but notice the sign outside and wondered if they could stay at their house for a while since it was originally there great great great grandparents land. just in the backyard if it isnt too much of a problem.

they just wanted to stay a couple of days because they were heading out somewhere they said.

this old hippy like dude......said that he couldn't and said they could come inside for tea instead for a few mins. around 10mins later the aboriginals had to go.

it was fucking hilarious to see these PC people put in their place.

 

[Comrade nathan]

If you acknowledge that the Aborigines are the true and original owners of this land, it must be given back to them. To them, land isn't an item bought and sold, it's part of their belief system.

This is bullshit. People are not proposing this, including the Aboriginal people.

You can acknowledge that Australia's past is of British imperialism which violently removed any 1st nations people occupying the land. Yet you can still be realistic and realise that the Aboriginal nation is in no position to complete a total national liberation. In other countries like in the African, Asian and South American continent they were able to follow a path of anti colonialism and overthrow the colonialist.

Unfortantly the Aboriginal Nation does not have the ability to overthrow the colonial nation. Also with the mass immigration we have developed as a country developed different class structure to that in other colonial countries. In Africa it came down to two large camps the white ruling class and the 1st Nations people. In Australia we have a wider distrubition of white people, which puts some white people are in a postion to be allies to the Aboriginal Nation.

So we can be realistic about the situation, and that is what people are doing. Part of the accepting of British imperialism is the position that this put Aboriginal people in during the 1900's when they began to realise that genocide was going to be a failure. This kept Aboriginal people in a position where they are truely are oppressed. Part of the Aboriginal national liberation as 1st nation peoples is the accesablity to wealth, health, employement and some form of self determination which they are deprived of at the current moment.

Now this is very realistic and has occured in countries where there are oppressed ethnic minority. We can see this in the USSR and China under Mao, even in Venezeula and Boliva there are moves towards this in regards to the various 1st nation people in thoose countries and breaking the dominant role that Spanish descendants played over the years.

 

[erawamai]

Re: the word 'racism'

Unfortunately, that's changing with this over-PC 'we must study them, let them live, and learn!!' anthropological bullshit. That combined with the 'we're a tolerant society! You can ALL come in, enjoy our wellfare, rape our women, and do what you want!' mentality is destroying my way of living inside-out.

I'm not sure there is much wrong with the idea that we must study different cultures (for obvious reasons), such as the atsi culture. I don't understand why you term this as 'bullshit'? I mean it seems odd coming from someone who is enamored with ancient cultures.

As for the last sentence. What can I say? Your tone suggests that we should invoke the final solution.

 

[Salima]

Did anyone watch the show that talked about racism being crap?
It's 3 part series, i missed the first oen but my mom watched it. SHe said it was good, she's very anti-racism. Me too. But you do get into using the termonology some racist may use...like who african-americans are allowed to say nigga..but to call someone between the balcks a negro is still insulting. I don't get it...they're both insulting words. It's highly derogatory.....you know....like raghead, or curry, or yellow fella, or white fella, or any of the others....it's all about what colour, what part of the world. If we never asked another for thier "race" or who thier ancestors were...would it make a diffference in our attitudes towards them? Most likely yes, and for the better.

Sometimes it is acceptable to knwo becuase of cultural differences...but usually one someone knows they start to think of all kinds of stereotypes...like if you're muslim or indian or indonesian you'll have arranged marriages...stupid really. People are different within their own culture. You can dissagree on some tradition your culture has...traditions are usually very anti-female and pro-male dominated world...blah blah....

 

[Salima]

It was harder for the aborigines maybe becuase of their nomad status...and having tribes os widely dispersed and cut-off form one another...makign it difficult to organise anything big..and each tribe speaks a different language.

 

[Salima]

terrblespellor....your pic is quiet cool..i mean the painting of it...but its a crusader your depicting...what a wank.

 

[aurelia jejune]

rac·ism
i) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
ii) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

You don't seem to recognise that the definition of racism is much broader than your experience of it. I agree that it's over-used, often by people who can't argue any better than you, but it's a legitimate description and criticism in many cases.

If you're going to vilify a group based on their race, then congratulations - you're attributing their behaviour to their race, and there's no denying you are making a racist remark. What do you expect people to say?

If you simply believe that race DOES account for how a group behaves and that racism isn't necessarily wrong, go ahead and make a case for it - there are plenty of people who will agree with you, more's the pity. Embrace your racism!

 

[xeuyrawp]

This is bullshit. People are not proposing this, including the Aboriginal people.

I never said people were proposing it, Nathan, I said that if you want to acknowledge.

Unfortantly the Aboriginal Nation does not have the ability to overthrow the colonial nation.

Unfortunately?

Firstly, realise that there is NO Aboriginal Nation. They are not a nation. When we arrived here, they were a group of early neolithic people. They had and still have no independent nation.

What you fail to understand that part of TRADITIONAL Aboriginal beliefs is that there is no sharing of land. 'But they're not the traditional people!!!' Exactly. And that's why they have to act like the colonial bastards that now run this place.

I find it convenient that these people have a huge history, collective memory, and sense of identity when they are in the courts and raging about 'colonial imperialism', but when one of them lines up at Centrelink, they never fail to mention how they own 3 dogs and have 15 children.

I also fail to see them at university. 'Ohhh, but we're a RACIST nation and don't give them opportunities!!!' Excuse me, but you've obviously never been to UNSW.

I'm sure if I was an Aborigine, I wouldn't have been able to get any of the huge opportunities that I have. But I guess that's the advantage of being the colonist...

I suppose that I'm just going to be called a racist -- as if I write off an entire group of people. I'll remind you that I think the biggest problem is the current government's complacency with just giving the 'Aboriginal Nation' what they want when they want. What they need to do is provide assistance to Aborigines when they work. None of this centrelink 'we'll give you a dollar for ever dog, and two for every child you have' bullshit.

Also none of this PC bullshit which you're coming out with. Seriously. Nation? What the fuck? They were NEVER a nation. They had NO sense of agency any more than my pet cat does. I'm not being a racist, it's just their luck that it's the way they progressed.

 

[Captain pi]

Let us examine some of the premises Mr Yuex has affirmed or implied.

Firstly, realise that there is NO Aboriginal Nation. They are not a nation. When we arrived here, they were a group of early neolithic people. They had and still have no independent nation.

Mr Yuex's comment here makes little sense, and does not cohere to any following paragraph (as far as my puny pre-uni eyes can tell). However, considering that he is quite avidly against compensation towards Aborigines, I am left to conclude that he believes:

One must belong to a nation in order to enjoy compensation and human rights.​

What you fail to understand that part of TRADITIONAL Aboriginal beliefs is that there is no sharing of land. 'But they're not the traditional people!!!' Exactly. And that's why they have to act like the colonial bastards that now run this place.

???

I find it convenient that these people have a huge history, collective memory, and sense of identity when they are in the courts and raging about 'colonial imperialism', but when one of them lines up at Centrelink, they never fail to mention how they own 3 dogs and have 15 children.

• Aborigines ("these people") have a huge history, collective memory, and sense of identity when they are in the courts raging about 'colonial imperialism'.
• It is inconsistent to be socially disadvantaged and have a huge history, collective memory, and a sense of identity.

I also fail to see them at university. 'Ohhh, but we're a RACIST nation and don't give them opportunities!!!' Excuse me, but you've obviously never been to UNSW.

No one at UNSW believes we are a racist nation.​

I'm sure if I was an Aborigine, I wouldn't have been able to get any of the huge opportunities that I have. But I guess that's the advantage of being the colonist...

???

I suppose that I'm just going to be called a racist -- as if I write off an entire group of people. I'll remind you that I think the biggest problem is the current government's complacency with just giving the 'Aboriginal Nation' what they want when they want. What they need to do is provide assistance to Aborigines when they work. None of this centrelink 'we'll give you a dollar for ever dog, and two for every child you have' bullshit.

Also none of this PC bullshit which you're coming out with. Seriously. Nation? What the fuck? They were NEVER a nation. They had NO sense of agency any more than my pet cat does. I'm not being a racist, it's just their luck that it's the way they progressed.

I did not understand the point of the rest of this, except the two sentences underlined.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: the word 'racism'

Please don't use the word "un-Australian": it degrades your otherwise intelligent posts.

I used the term in an ironic sense, so that Mathmite could see the folly of his ways. (He made accusations of people being unpatriotic and traitors to our country.)

I'm with Oscar Wilde - patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

Mathmite isn't saying that we must give their land back as a response to historical memory... He's correctly saying that if you want to be true to the Aboriginal ideology, their land must be given back.

If that is what he said then that is even more invalid. It is like saying "If you support donating to charity you should give all your belongings and money away."

If you acknowledge that the Aborigines are the true and original owners of this land, it must be given back to them. To them, land isn't an item bought and sold, it's part of their belief system.

With regards to presently non-indigenous owned land, we are acknowledging that they are the traditional owners, not the current owners.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Also none of this PC bullshit which you're coming out with. Seriously. Nation? What the fuck? They were NEVER a nation. They had NO sense of agency any more than my pet cat does. I'm not being a racist, it's just their luck that it's the way they progressed.

I understand your quibbles with overly PC people, but let's not write-off all the arguments as extremist. It is true that they were never a nation in the Eurocentric view of the term. But there is absolutely no denying that they were the inhabitants of the land - and they inhabited the land for at least 50,000 years (by conservative estimates).

Did failing to conform to a certain system of land ownership mean that their rights were any less worthy?