UTS v UWS (2 Viewers)

[MiuMiu]

I worked a lot harder at school than I do at uni.

 

[erawamai]

I worked a lot harder at school than I do at uni.

I think most of us learn that uni work requires more effort than the HSC.

 

[MiuMiu]

I think most of us learn that uni work requires more effort than the HSC.

I think ive learnt the exact opposite. I can get C's and D's with fairly minimal work...

 

[erawamai]

I think ive learnt the exact opposite. I can get C's and D's with fairly minimal work...

Each session, to me, seems like a blur. Many times the work and many times the pressure.

Preparation for uni exams and research essays for arts (which are now gone) is massive compared to what I did for the HSC. Actually I found first year to be a total shock to the system in terms of the work required for the double degree.

I wonder what you view of 'minimal work' is comapred to mine? For example I know a person who says she does no work or does it easy (D/HD average)...but really she spends every waking slaving away or having panic attacks.

 

[LaraB]

How complicated is it then?

You keep on using the term "idiot". Not me. I DO think he will kill most, if not all students. I still haven't referred to them as idiots. breing able to kill all UWS students doesn't mean UWS houses idiots. It just means he has special aptitude. Just like the person (James?) who topped UoW for law. He got to become the High Court CJ's right hand man. That doesn't mean UoW is filled with idiots. It just means he is perticularly intelligent and hard working. I wonder how you interpret High Court judgements? =P

Mature age students don't need to do a double degree. Therefore they finish quicker and start finding a job faster. Even if they were in direct competition, practical experience is very different from theory and vice versa. They have no particular advantage. All universities have mature age students as well. Mature age students just means they are mature. It has no direct correlation with study ability.

actually - quite a few mature aged students do combined degrees - don't forget you can be in your 20's and be a mature aged student... a lot have gone to do Tafe 1st or moved from overseas or stopped another degree or just doingit for the sake of it.. not all are doing just law as a 2nd degree after completing a 1st or working or whatever...

there's also a lot of international students so they aren't necessarily done by solely UAI or anything so you can't really say....

if you attended a law class at uws you'd probably be surprised at how few proportionately, "1st course undergrads" there are

its the same at every uni though.... coz full fee paying students bring down the average UAI of the student base.. so do international students etc... just happens more at some unis than others... course it happens everywhere but some unis its far more than others in certain courses so it is a significant factor when you talk about that kind of thing...

its like.. full fee paying being a factor at USyd/UNSW/etc compared to unis that don't have full fee paying students...

 

[santaslayer]

It also comes down to;

- Interest in the field.
- Reasoning skills.
- General knowledge.

You can put in alot of work and try your best and not do that well... just as with alot of knowledge and skill you can put in little work and do very well.

While I certaily conceed that someone with a higher uai has a greater chance of having such capability, there are many stories of people with high uai's doing bad... and people will low uai's doing good. I would suggest that uni is a completely new ball game and how well you did in the hsc can only be used as a guide to how well you have achieved in the past and how well perhaps you can achieve in the future. I imagine we would find on average that students with higher uai's perform better, but it is by no means anywhere near a guarentee.

No, it isn't a guarantee at all. Nothing is. I would still put my bet on the thread maker rather than somone who scrapped into UWS Law. I'm sure you would too.
What your presenting is a "if" and "What if" factor. I agree that there can be many instances of people who achieved a lot or fucked up a lot compared to their past. My tutor's student is now a lawyer after gaining a 55.00 UAI. So what? These are out of the blue instances. They don't present the majority. Fine. Congratulations to the person who might kill the thread creator in uni. That doesn't mean the thread creator didn't kill "most if not all" of the people in UWS. I hope you're not suggesting that UWS is filled with overnight miracles. I'd straight away transfer as well if that was the case.

In conclusion: I still don't see how my statement was wrong in the first place.??

I had to use it again because you posed the question of whether the way I am categorising your view UWS students is because of my own perspective.

Now you know that this is not the case.

Yes, just because one person is a genius does not make the others dumb. However by suggesting with no other knowledge other than the fact that this person achieved a uai of 98 and the cut-off at uws is 90 that he will beat all/most of the students is insulting.

I don't see it like that. Are you suggesting that 98.00 is not a good UAI for someone to top UWS Law or what? The max UAI you can get is 100.00. Ninety Eight is 2 below. UWS does not house a majority of 98'ers. Someone with 98 has an excellent chance of killing UWS Law. It woul;d be very different if it was UNSW Law.
What's more is that if someone has the ability to kill the thread creator (or anyone with a high UAI) in UWS Law than he/she should be proud of themselves. I'm actually giving them a chance to prove me wrong and feel extremely special when and if they do. I contributed to UWS academia.

They do have an advantage, at least in the first year of the degree. They have a basic theoretical knowledge from their practical experience.

Yes, just like how HSC Law students have a weeks advantage over people who didn't undertake that course.

It isn't the students who study the most who achieve better, it is the students with the most knowledge/ability and willingness to express that knowledge that do best. A person with years of experience in the legal system already has a wealth of knowledge beyond that which the students will find in their books, this does help them.

You only cover a certain amount of material in uni Law. A wealth of material does not advantage them at all. It needs to be within syllabus.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No, it isn't a guarantee at all. Nothing is. I would still put my bet on the thread maker rather than somone who scrapped into UWS Law. I'm sure you would too.

Actually from all the open days I went to last year, the people I talked to expressed that they've found people who barely scrape into courses to be the hardest working people... they value the spot they have and don't just think 'LOL these guys got 8 less uai points than me! EASSSSSSY'.

That doesn't mean the thread creator didn't kill "most if not all" of the people in UWS. I hope you're not suggesting that UWS is filled with overnight miracles. I'd straight away transfer as well if that was the case.

In conclusion: I still don't see how my statement was wrong in the first place.??

You're making a bad prediction. If he has the attitude of 'I got a higher uai i will pwn them', he will be in for a shock.

I don't see it like that. Are you suggesting that 98.00 is not a good UAI for someone to top UWS Law or what? The max UAI you can get is 100.00. Ninety Eight is 2 below. UWS does not house a majority of 98'ers. Someone with 98 has an excellent chance of killing UWS Law. It woul;d be very different if it was UNSW Law.

I'm suggesting that the uai's are weak indicators for how someone will do in uni, and on an individual basis (instead of a group) I would not be making any sort of prediction.

You only cover a certain amount of material in uni Law. A wealth of material does not advantage them at all. It needs to be within syllabus.

It will definately help them with the introductory subjects that I have done so far at UWS, alot of the people who I found were having a bit more difficulty were those who did not have a broader depth of knowledge.

 

[MiuMiu]

I wonder what you view of 'minimal work' is comapred to mine? For example I know a person who says she does no work or does it easy (D/HD average)...but really she spends every waking slaving away or having panic attacks.

The only panic attack ive ever had at uni was during my torts exam when I realised Id forgotten to bring the calculator we had been told we would need. I ended up with 92 in that subject.

Of course I get to the night before the final and kick myself for not making consistent notes, but Ive never really ended up suffering for it.

Maybe I find it a bit cruisier because Im not doing a double degree. That said, Im still doing 4 subjects a semester (full load).

 

[MiuMiu]

It will definately help them with the introductory subjects that I have done so far at UWS, alot of the people who I found were having a bit more difficulty were those who did not have a broader depth of knowledge.

You go to UWS Law School?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You go to UWS Law School?

Yea I go to UWS parra.

 

[MiuMiu]

Im so confused.

 

[santaslayer]

Actually from all the open days I went to last year, the people I talked to expressed that they've found people who barely scrape into courses to be the hardest working people... they value the spot they have and don't just think 'LOL these guys got 8 less uai points than me! EASSSSSSY'.

What 'people' were you talking to?
From what I gather, tutors/lecturers do not have first hand access to one's UAI. No individual really should. Except maybe uni admin and UAC.

Let me guess..
The students who were helping out in the open days?

You're making a bad prediction. If he has the attitude of 'I got a higher uai i will pwn them', he will be in for a shock.

It really depends on the perspective you take. It CAN be used both ways. I may of been focussing on the good side. Dependent on the type of personality he/she has. Egos in law are usually a good thing IMO. It can help better EVERYONE. That being said, I do understand where you may be comming from.

I'm suggesting that the uai's are weak indicators for how someone will do in uni, and on an individual basis (instead of a group) I would not be making any sort of prediction.

Yes, UAI's may be weak indicators but it is the ONLY indicator at the moment. If it is such a weak indicator you wouldn't of used it in the first place to get yourself into UWS Law. There are always other ways of being admitted to law without utilising the UAI. don't see how criticising the UAI helps to justify why you are in law right now.

It will definately help them with the introductory subjects that I have done so far at UWS, alot of the people who I found were having a bit more difficulty were those who did not have a broader depth of knowledge.

OK, maybe this is because we go to different unis and have had different experiences. At UoW I had like a week and a bit 'advantage' because I had expoerince in the law field through both the HSC and some practical with a friends private practice. I didn't even utilise such an advantage since I failed to read the first 2 weeks worth of material thoroughly.
Anyway, this isn't really a point of discussion or debate. EVERYONE has difficulties in the first year.whether it is essay wwriting techniques or the content itself, regardless of the amount of experince.

 

[santaslayer]

Yea I go to UWS parra.

Also, from memory, you said you intended to transfer. I read someone in this website that transfers to law will only be accepted after and only in the first year for some unis. No other admissions will be accepetd after your first full year of study. You might want to check out and confirm.

 

[Frigid]

I read someone in this website that transfers to law will only be accepted after and only in the first year for some unis.

that would be me who said that.

and bloody hell mate, you're never on MSN.

 

[santaslayer]

I dont think its fair to say that just becuase you have a higher UAI than the rest of the people who get in with you, that you will beat them all. People can adopt differnent work ethics than to what the did in high school. I know that I am doing much better in uni than in high school.
Also when I got accept into my course the cutoff was 73, then i deferred and the cutoff rose to 77, so basically most of the people in my degree have a higher UAI than me, and ive topped a few of my classes in assessments.

No it isn't fair. That's why we have the UAI as an INDICATOR/PREDICTOR of tertiary success.
(sorry I'm not shouting, just emphasising).

With all due respect. UAI's work like any other simple data. Scores that are near both ends of spectrums are easier to maintain and harder to change because less people are placed in them. ie: They are hard to get (or most won't try to achieve such a result----near zero). A UAI of 73.00 and 77.00 have no much difference between them at all, regardless of what subjects you did in the HSC because anyone who gained that extra mark or two in a few subjects is not an accurate representation of one's ability in the future. A 98.00+ and low 90.00 score is significant enough for everyone to acknowledge IMO. This is where one of the weaknesses in the UAI lies.

I would respind to LaraB if I could understand it. Sorry.

 

[santaslayer]

that would be me who said that.

and bloody hell mate, you're never on MSN.

Girlfriend's place. Don't ask, no webcam, sorry.

Giving souviners from Japan.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What 'people' were you talking to?
From what I gather, tutors/lecturers do not have first hand access to one's UAI. No individual really should. Except maybe uni admin and UAC.

Let me guess..
The students who were helping out in the open days?

It was heads of the programme, I was worried that I could not perform as well as other students due to my lower uai than most of them... they told me that in their experience alot of students who barely make it through perform well. I believe their reference is transfer students, and of course there are probably lots of students they come into contact on a 1 on 1 basis who are not worried about releasing the fact that they didn't do well.

I believe if there was any research done into the topic (I dunno if there has been), you would find that the UAI is only a partial indicator and that perhaps other indicators are much better to predict university success.

Yes, UAI's may be weak indicators but it is the ONLY indicator at the moment.

No there are other indicators of high success at university that I think we can accept out of hand: Distance from campus, Ammount of free time available for study, etc

If it is such a weak indicator you wouldn't of used it in the first place to get yourself into UWS Law. There are always other ways of being admitted to law without utilising the UAI. don't see how criticising the UAI helps to justify why you are in law right now.

Because it was the easiest way for me to get in to law... I don't care if it's not an accurate indicator I just want to get into uni. Criticising uai does not help justify why I am in law... I don't even know what you're on about with this comment... you're attempting to say that I'm wrong about the UAI because I used the UAI? That's doesn't follow.

 

[= Jennifer =]

That is true, but I doubt the intention of Jennifer's post was to argue that UWS is superior to other law schools.

very true, not to say it is superior, just to show we are just as much the same as the others

 

[Frigid]

if i may draw an analogy, i would say UAI as a predictor of university performance is like taking the financial statements of a company to predict future earnings.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

if i may draw an analogy, i would say UAI as a predictor of university performance is like taking the financial statements of a company to predict future earnings.

I would agree parially with that, if we add to the analogy that it is using the financial statements of a company that operates in a large number of industries... and their performance there - to indicate their future performance operating in a different industry.

The main problem I have with using uai's as an indicator is that it is being applied to 1 person here. If it was 100 people with a uai of 98 and 100 people with a uai of 90, then I would of course say that on average the 98 people are going to be better.