War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (ret.) (2 Viewers)

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

the only reason they are killing themselves, is because of the americans.

And then Darell Hair thinks he needs to be more popular and claims that the Pakistani cricket team are a bunch of cheats. And then send a private letter that leaked out offering to resign for some of 500k. Then today Bush tries to blackmail Musharraf, to join his campaign against 'terror' -more like nnothing.

Dont forget war the lebanon invasion by Israel. They did a lot of questionable things and at the time the yfailed to realise it was mistake and when its all over when the damage has been done, when its pointless they claim to realise their mistakes. These mistakes were evident - the un station bombing, the bombing on innocent people and the use of cluster bombs.

now I ask you specifically aryanbeauty (since u luv America and Israel)- go back to before the Septemeber 11 and tell me compared to back then is the world a safer place now? You may claim that they captured a whole of terrorists, but the fact is since then the number of terrorists could have doubled or tripled in numbers.

Finally another question do you believe that america has a legitimate reason to go to war with Iran, followin the Iran president's address to the UN? Although Iran maybe supporting Hamas, America supports the use inhuman methods for interrogation?

Although others have answered, as you ask me i'll answer some of your Q.

You must be delusional to think that iraqis kill eachother because of americans, if you are a muslim you probably knew very well the basic difference between Shia and Sunni. They were never in peace since their existence around 7th Centruy. Each side claimed to be the original and better one and always tried to kill eachother. I agreed that american presence in Iraq and the Iraqi govt's failure to maintain law and order only aggravate the situation. The enmity between Shia and Sunnis are worse than that of Christian and Muslims in the same area.

Pakistan voluntarily offered to help US as a whitewash to its involvement in international terrorism. US never asked Pakistan to join war on terror. It was pakistan Dictator at that time later President Musharraff who in his TV address to nation, offered everything his country can do, to help US in its war on Terror. Pakistan knew India will benefit from the war on terror if it does not align with US so despite opposition from its people, he joined US war in Afghanistan, offering transit through his country and logistics including military bases.

I wont comment on Lebanon war since Israel won, I'm happy.

I ask you specifically aryanbeauty (since u luv America and Israel)- go back to before the Septemeber 11 and tell me compared to back then is the world a safer place now?

Yes the world is safer, No airline Hijacking since 9/11 (popular islamic terrorist method), No attacks on US mainland very safe for americans, significant decline in suicide bombings in Israel (thanks to West bank wall). Most importantly awakening of western countries on the danger islamic extremism, now most intelligence agency including AIS are able to catch would be suicide bombers in melbourne and MI5 recent success in exposing terror network in the UK. Now I can travel peacefully knowing that the security is more stringen then ever before with Air Marshall on board.


Finally another question do you believe that america has a legitimate reason to go to war with Iran, followin the Iran president's address to the UN? Although Iran maybe supporting Hamas, America supports the use inhuman methods for interrogation?

The legitimacy will be whether Iran complies with UN resolution or not, and Irans intention towards Israel. Having seen that Iran wants the complete destruction of Israel it is already legitimate for Israel to attack Iran.

As the World's one and only superpower US have the right to invade other countries which threaten to destroy other countries. You may cry foul about equality of each countries, in reality USA and monaco will never be on equal footing, which is evident in the settings of UN security council with veto power.

Lastly, US does not accept the use of evidence gathered from torture, those terrorists including David Hicks or other Al Qaeda maybe tortured (which I think they truly deserve it) their confession will not be used as evidence when they are put on trial.

US President George W Bush has reached a deal with Republican senators on a controversial bill setting rules for the questioning of terror suspects.

Under the deal, Mr Bush dropped his demand that CIA interrogators be protected from prosecution by redefining the Geneva conventions. The compromise will also allow the Bush administration to resume military tribunals, suspended since June.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5369260.stm

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Quote:
Peddling nuclear techonology, sending IED technology to Iraq, supplying and commanding Hezbollah, conducting intelligence operations and training the Iraqi insurgency, promoting sectarian violence in the middle east, being oppressive assholes. They're making us bleed unecessarily and they will pay. Ofcourse it wont be carpet bombing striaght away, first we'll send in the B2's and F117's to knock out their anti-air capcity, then the B52's move in and do their job."


Peddling arms and ammunition to terrorist countries, supporting Saddam Hussein's regime, supporting the Bin Laden's, promoting civil war in Vietnam, overthowing Iran's democratic government and putting the Shah in place, "Amnesty International cites the United States as the largest international supplier of electro-shock weapons to governments that practice electro-shock torture. $3 million worth of electro-shock devices were sold to Saudi Arabia in 1990."
Actually using nuclear bombs against another nation insead of just 'peddling' it.
Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing President Allende who had been popularly elected. The CIA helped to establish a military regime under General Pinochet.
It's not just atrocities like that either. April 2001, the US was not reelected to the UN Human Rights Commission, after years of withholding dues to the UN (including current dues of
$244 million)-and after having forced the UN to lower its share of the UN
budget from 25 to 22 percent. (In the Human Rights Commission, the US
stood virtually alone in opposing resolutions supporting lower-cost
access to HIV/AIDS drugs, acknowledging a basic human right to adequate food, and calling for a moratorium on the death penalty.)
Bascially the government are shitheads, who assume the moral right to judge despite the fact they have no highground to take.

Quote:
Not really, there is a slight majority in America that will always vote avowedly Republican, its been that way since all the Dixiecrats (Southern Democrats) and "Reagan Democrats" went Republican for good.
...
Also the reason people vote Republican is becuase the Republicans are people who are proud of their country and have done a much better job of serving US intrests then the Dems ever could.




I am proud of my country, I was proud when i heard that Australia had given so many millions to the Tsunami relief, but I was not proud to hear that we were going to war. Pride in your country doesn't have to mean being blind to its faults and despite your estimation of Americans as a bunch of indoctrinated sheep bleating 'Republican' as everyother nation on the planet is killed, I hardly think it is accurate. I realise that might apply to you, but other people are capable of both rational thought AND human emotions.

Quote:
America is strong enough to take on the next 3 or 4 countries below the US combined and win, Iraq and Iran are nobody's. Only 150000 of the available 500000 troops are in Iraq, not even mentioning the 700000 reserves and guardsmen, or the fact that Israel will play a large part in tearing Iran to pieces. Also the US has quite a few allies, Israel, UK, and yep, us.


How long do you think the populations of Australia and the UK will stay allied with America as she begins to wipe out all the Middle East (barring saintly Israel of course). Yes America could field that many troops. Of course there economy would crash and their people would starve but hey, the soldiers'd be fed.

Quote:
And which one of you pro-gun control pansies plans to do that?

And resorting to a childish insult at the end, way to go man.
I'm definitely for any law that keeps guns out of the hands of intolerant, angry young men like you. Do you think it's a coincidence that America is the land of the school shooting, with its lax gun laws and outdated view that everyone has the right to own a gun?

I'd do it! I can use a gun. But all they'll do is replace him with another member of the Bush dynasty.

 

[bshoc]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Open a history book sometime and look up "USSR" , also open a dictionary and look up "context." Could help.

Peddling arms and ammunition to terrorist countries,

To be used against the Soviets who were peddling their own arms..

supporting Saddam Hussein's regime,

Against the radical islamic government of Iran ..

supporting the Bin Laden's,

Only one of whom is a baddie.

promoting civil war in Vietnam,

Actually that was the goal of the Viet Minh, the US was content with holding the border in Vietnam.

"Amnesty International cites the United States as the largest international supplier of electro-shock weapons to governments that practice electro-shock torture. $3 million worth of electro-shock devices were sold to Saudi Arabia in 1990."

Which are private corporations by the way, and have little to do with the US government itself, for the specific example you bring, those electric weapons could be pretty useful to interogate say, oh, terrorists?

Actually using nuclear bombs against another nation insead of just 'peddling' it.

In world war II against Imperial Japan .. perhaps you are not aware of the Japanese war record? Or what the US forces had to face the two times they did land on Japanese territory (Iwo Jima and Okinawa) - it involved fanatical civilians with arms. Again open a history book.

Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing President Allende who had been popularly elected. The CIA helped to establish a military regime under General Pinochet.

Well in the long term it was either Pinochet or another Brezhnev puppet regime, Allende was a socialist, and given the context of the cold war it was completely acceptable.

It's not just atrocities like that either.

None of the examples you made were in any way "attrocities." I also dont see how the Truman and Nixon administrations are relevant to our current problems.

April 2001, the US was not reelected to the UN Human Rights Commission

Good, the HRC isn't even supposed to exist, the UN is meant to consist of the general assembly, security council and the ICJ only. It's a useless body who's rulings are questionable at best.

after years of withholding dues to the UN (including current dues of
$244 million)-and after having forced the UN to lower its share of the UN
budget from 25 to 22 percent.

Good, I hope the US withdraws every penny that doesent go to the three bodies I mentioned above, the UN is not meant to be a world governing body, its not meant to infringe on the sovereignty of nations, it's a mediative body, a world forum, not a world parliament.

(In the Human Rights Commission, the US stood virtually alone in opposing resolutions supporting lower-cost access to HIV/AIDS drugs, acknowledging a basic human right to adequate food, and calling for a moratorium on the death penalty.)

Which all came in package along with awful things like "abortion rights" , the HRC isn't even meant to exist, nor should US taxpayers or those of any other country be expected to prop up an organization that does not seve their intrests or opinions.

Bascially the government are shitheads, who assume the moral right to judge despite the fact they have no highground to take.

And you're a narrow minded person who doesent look at the records of those other 191 countries in the world (most of which are worse), prefering to just be a US basher. Compared to Iran, the USA is a saint.

I am proud of my country, I was proud when i heard that Australia had given so many millions to the Tsunami relief,

I wasn't, the government should spend my taxes in my intrests, if I wanted to send aid I would do it privately. Why help out muslims when they so clearly have allah?

but I was not proud to hear that we were going to war.

Me neither, but it had to be done, them or us, simple, if the choice is bombs in Bagdad and bombs in Sydney, I choose Bagdad.

Pride in your country doesn't have to mean being blind to its faults

It means you can't be blind to threats either, a country must serve its own intrests, if it doesen't, it serves the intrests of others.

and despite your estimation of Americans as a bunch of indoctrinated sheep bleating 'Republican' as everyother nation on the planet is killed, I hardly think it is accurate. I realise that might apply to you, but other people are capable of both rational thought AND human emotions.

Yes you're certainly capable of anger, not so much the rational thought. Our govenrment went to Iraq, and surprise surprise look who got re-elected, you may want to re-evaluate your defnition of "people" - seeing as how you're a minority.

How long do you think the populations of Australia and the UK will stay allied with America

As long as it serves our intrests and historical obligations, I don't have to explain to you that we've got the world's most populace muslim country sitting just a little North of us do I?

as she begins to wipe out all the Middle East (barring saintly Israel of course).

Not yet, but we can only hope.

Yes America could field that many troops. Of course there economy would crash and their people would starve but hey, the soldiers'd be fed.

Actually a full wartime economy is great, heck took American straight out of the depression and into one of its best periods of growth back in WWII.

I'm definitely for any law that keeps guns out of the hands of intolerant, angry young men like you.

Angry? Take out that dictionary and look up "hypocrite" .. I'm not advocating the murder of the US president and supporting mid east terroism and the evil religion that spawn it.

Do you think it's a coincidence that America is the land of the school shooting, with its lax gun laws and outdated view that everyone has the right to own a gun?

Actually the latest school shootings happned in Canada and Germany, gun controling nations both. Also Colombine was in California, which has tougher gun control policies than most US states and Western Nations. Gun control is the biggest ripoff since the Telstra sale, people who want to use guns to commit crime will always find them, its us law-abiding people that are getting robbed of our right to self defence, every person has a right to use lethal force to defend themselves, crime actually rises in the absence of gun restrictions, its been proven in the US. If you dont like guns then dont buy one, if I want one I have every right within a free society to purchase it.

I'd do it! I can use a gun. But all they'll do is replace him with another member of the Bush dynasty.

Actually the'd replace him with Cheney, and if you loved Bush, you'll adore Cheney.

 

[The Brucemaster]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

I'm going to let the first few examples go either because I agree or don't know enough about them so let's start with this one:

Well in the long term it was either Pinochet or another Brezhnev puppet regime, Allende was a socialist, and given the context of the cold war it was completely acceptable.

So basically it's preferable to have a fascist dictator who is a puppet for the USA and is placed there by means of intervention) then to have a democratically elected socialist who was a puppet for the Soviets.

I'm sorry but that is just crap.

Good, the HRC isn't even supposed to exist, the UN is meant to consist of the general assembly, security council and the ICJ only. It's a useless body who's rulings are questionable at best.

OK, putting aside you're opinion on the effectiveness of the UN, pray tell why the HRC isn't supposed to exist? Especially considering this excerpt from the Charter of the United Nations:

"To reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women..."

Good, I hope the US withdraws every penny that doesent go to the three bodies I mentioned above, the UN is not meant to be a world governing body, its not meant to infringe on the sovereignty of nations, it's a mediative body, a world forum, not a world parliament.

Very true, but nation states are not meant to interfere in the sovereignty of other nations either, nor are they meant to be world parliaments...

Which all came in package along with awful things like "abortion rights" , the HRC isn't even meant to exist, nor should US taxpayers or those of any other country be expected to prop up an organization that does not seve their intrests or opinions.

I would have thought human rights would be in most people's interests...

I wasn't, the government should spend my taxes in my intrests, if I wanted to send aid I would do it privately. Why help out muslims when they so clearly have allah?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because you're a decent human being with respect for other people and it's the nice thing to do?

Me neither, but it had to be done, them or us, simple, if the choice is bombs in Bagdad and bombs in Sydney, I choose Bagdad.

Yes, because clearly that's what the situation was...

As long as it serves our intrests and historical obligations, I don't have to explain to you that we've got the world's most populace muslim country sitting just a little North of us do I?

What's your point? Because the only point i can see is one based on ignorance and disrespect.

Actually a full wartime economy is great, heck took American straight out of the depression and into one of its best periods of growth back in WWII.

Yeah it worked in Vietnam too, what with their 1st trade deficit for the century, the highest rate of inflation for 20 years and Nixon being forced to float the dollar.

Now who needs to look up the meaning of context...

Actually the latest school shootings happned in Canada and Germany, gun controling nations both. Also Colombine was in California, which has tougher gun control policies than most US states and Western Nations. Gun control is the biggest ripoff since the Telstra sale, people who want to use guns to commit crime will always find them, its us law-abiding people that are getting robbed of our right to self defence, every person has a right to use lethal force to defend themselves, crime actually rises in the absence of gun restrictions, its been proven in the US. If you dont like guns then dont buy one, if I want one I have every right within a free society to purchase it.

OK, let's slow down a bit here. USA, right to own a gun, gun related deaths per year - over 10,000. Australia and Germany, gun control, gun related deaths per year - between 60 and 70.

Crime rises in the absence of gun restrictions? Well that's good, I believe you mentioned something earlier about the meaning of the word hypocrite?

 

[bshoc]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

So basically it's preferable to have a fascist dictator who is a puppet for the USA and is placed there by means of intervention) then to have a democratically elected socialist who was a puppet for the Soviets.

I'm sorry but that is just crap.

No, most people ovestate the involvement of the US in this reguard. To overthrow a regime the CIA needs to have a significant percentage of the population of the country they are seeking to regime change accept such an event. Do you even know what Operation Condor was? Two words, Cold War. If a coup against a pro-soviet socialist is under way, it makes sense to support it given the context of the time we're talking about.

OK, putting aside you're opinion on the effectiveness of the UN, pray tell why the HRC isn't supposed to exist? Especially considering this excerpt from the Charter of the United Nations:

"To reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women..."

Because the UN exists to provide mediation, not to impose dictats. The HRC has also proven to be a bottomless pit for UN funding.

Also, note the membership, Iran, Cuba, China, Libya, Zimbabwe, LOL now thats what I call a human rights council, no need to use my taxes to build federal roads and the defence forces, just give em all to the HRC!

As for that part of the charter, it is more than covered through the ICJ.

Very true, but nation states are not meant to interfere in the sovereignty of other nations either, nor are they meant to be world parliaments...

Thats why we have the Security Council, remember Kuwait and Desert Storm? That was truly one of the few genuine successes the UN had, compared to all the failures like Rwanda and now Darfur. The UN charter allows for the use of military force in self-defence, also the UN is specific about its aim to stop war between states, it says nothing about enemies who are stateless (ie. Al-Q).

I would have thought human rights would be in most people's interests...

There is no such thing as a universal set of human rights, for example womens rights would be unthinkable in an Islamic society, private property in a communist society, or things like abortion in christian societies like Germany (and increasingly our countries too).

Also as much as I dont want to link this, current US ambassador John Bolton is somebody who truly understands the nature of the UN, I would encourage you to pay close attention to what he says

I think this quote sums up the UN best:

[SIZE=-1] "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy" [/SIZE]

Oh, I don't know, maybe because you're a decent human being with respect for other people and it's the nice thing to do?

I'm not going to care about people who don't care about me (ie. we're infidels stupid). If a tsunami hit Aus. tommorow do you think we would get a penny of aid from Indonesia? Dont count on it. Taxes should be spent to the benefit of people who pay them, its the first basic rule of a fiscally responsible government.

Yes, because clearly that's what the situation was...

Ok, pretend you're George W Bush, 2 years ago Al-Q carried out 9/11, to which you were warned several times (although that was more the Clinton admin.) and never did anything, the results spoke for themeselves. Now you get the same kinds of reports about Iraq, another country with the middle east with a history of use of WMD's and support of terrorist groups that Al-Queda claimed to be their cause (ie. Palestine). Would you risk it? From the Bush perspective, no way, what we know in retrospect is irrelevant, its realpolitik pure and simple.

What's your point? Because the only point i can see is one based on ignorance and disrespect.

My point is what Indonesia did to non muslims in their own country (PNG, Timor), as well as what happned in places like Bali. Also 50% of muslims believe that Bin Laden is doing the right thing, if you want to see real ignorance and disrespect, look at any Islamic society.

Yeah it worked in Vietnam too, what with their 1st trade deficit for the century, the highest rate of inflation for 20 years and Nixon being forced to float the dollar.

Now who needs to look up the meaning of context...

You need the meaning of history, that much is certain. The oil crisis had nothing to do with the Vietnam War, simply put the US needed to be taken off the gold standard and removed from the clutches of Bretton Woods, which Nixon did quite skillfully, don't conflate inflation with lack of growth, its usually the other way around (ie. high growth implies higher inflation). The war itself helped the US economically, ofcourse the jobless brainless druggie hippie movement didn't, but hey they're not on our side anyway.

OK, let's slow down a bit here. USA, right to own a gun, gun related deaths per year - over 10,000. Australia and Germany, gun control, gun related deaths per year - between 60 and 70.

Crime rises in the absence of gun restrictions? Well that's good, I believe you mentioned something earlier about the meaning of the word hypocrite?

Nope, gun control is a load of crap http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570

heres the full report: http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/FailedExperimentRev.pdf

Port Arthur massacare, Colombine and so on all happned with the use of unregistered firearms, meaning that they would have happned gun control or not. A government that takes away its citizen's rights to own firearms should be suspected of corrupt motives, thats why gun freedom exists in the US, so the citizenry can "overthrow a tyranical government" and have a real way to defend themselves against agression. I also think this is quite a clever look at gun control http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/rkba/40reasons.htm

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Yes America could field that many troops. Of course there economy would crash and their people would starve but hey, the soldiers'd be fed.

Quote:
And which one of you pro-gun control pansies plans to do that?

And resorting to a childish insult at the end, way to go man.
I'm definitely for any law that keeps guns out of the hands of intolerant, angry young men like you. Do you think it's a coincidence that America is the land of the school shooting, with its lax gun laws and outdated view that everyone has the right to own a gun?

I'd do it! I can use a gun. But all they'll do is replace him with another member of the Bush dynasty.

Shows your knowlege about american economy, when was the last time american economy collapsed? When was the last time they experienced depression? If american economy were to collapse it would be the world who suffer first. You will be who will have to beg for food not americans. America produce eveyrthing it needs except oil to keep going. Did american economy collapse because it spend all its industrial resource for the 2nd world war? If I may say, The world needs america more than america needs other countries. America can live without any other country but No country can do or live without USA. No matter how much they hate USA North Korea and Iran cant stop loving or using US $!. Only if you realise how much Australia depend on USA just look at NYSE dow jones Index, when new york stock exchange goes up ASX is up, when it goes down ASX is down, basically completely depending on US economy!


I'm definitely for any law that keeps guns out of the hands of intolerant, angry young men like you

Yet you promote assassination of elected leaders which was even done away with by US Gov't 25 years ago

 

[The Logical One]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Shows your knowlege about american economy, when was the last time american economy collapsed? When was the last time they experienced depression? If american economy were to collapse it would be the world who suffer first. You will be who will have to beg for food not americans. America produce eveyrthing it needs except oil to keep going. Did american economy collapse because it spend all its industrial resource for the 2nd world war? If I may say, The world needs america more than america needs other countries. America can live without any other country but No country can do or live without USA. No matter how much they hate USA North Korea and Iran cant stop loving or using US $!. Only if you realise how much Australia depend on USA just look at NYSE dow jones Index, when new york stock exchange goes up ASX is up, when it goes down ASX is down, basically completely depending on US economy!


I'm definitely for any law that keeps guns out of the hands of intolerant, angry young men like you

Yet you promote assassination of elected leaders which was even done away with by US Gov't 25 years ago

Aryan at times you are quite correct, and at other times you are completely incorrect. In this post you are quite correct in that the world economy is quite dependant on the U.S economy. But, would you say that if the leader of the U.S was trying to eliminate your people? If it was trying to express itself as a super power by exploiting weaker and smaller countries?

Even though the American economy is strong, it is quite unstable. The American economy is much like the World Trade Centers. It's huge, worth millions and it effects all the surrounding buildings. It's filled with protections, and safeguards and has influence and international recognition.

But, sometimes..... A plane to the side of the building is enough to bring it down to the ground.

If the American economy crashed there would be quite an unstable international period. Then, the other countries would just work directly with each other and there would no longer be the dependancy for the United States.

Do you agree? (or do you choose to be wrong?)

 

[banco55]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Aryan at times you are quite correct, and at other times you are completely incorrect. In this post you are quite correct in that the world economy is quite dependant on the U.S economy. But, would you say that if the leader of the U.S was trying to eliminate your people? If it was trying to express itself as a super power by exploiting weaker and smaller countries?

Even though the American economy is strong, it is quite unstable. The American economy is much like the World Trade Centers. It's huge, worth millions and it effects all the surrounding buildings. It's filled with protections, and safeguards and has influence and international recognition.

But, sometimes..... A plane to the side of the building is enough to bring it down to the ground.

If the American economy crashed there would be quite an unstable international period. Then, the other countries would just work directly with each other and there would no longer be the dependancy for the United States.

Do you agree? (or do you choose to be wrong?)

Ummm no East Asia is very heavily dependent on exporting to the US. If the US economy crashed china, japan and india's economy would crash. The EU would follow. Once the dust had settled the world would probably look quite similar though the US share of world gdp might be slightly lower. One things for sure Africa and the arab middle east would still be way, way behind as always.

 

[HotShot]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

You must be delusional to think that iraqis kill eachother because of americans, if you are a muslim you probably knew very well the basic difference between Shia and Sunni. They were never in peace since their existence around 7th Centruy. Each side claimed to be the original and better one and always tried to kill eachother. I agreed that american presence in Iraq and the Iraqi govt's failure to maintain law and order only aggravate the situation. The enmity between Shia and Sunnis are worse than that of Christian and Muslims in the same area.

7th Century- that has been going on for ages, With american intervention the situation no doubt has worsened. by the american military casualities surpassed the casualities from the 9/11 attack just a little milestone.

I wont comment on Lebanon war since Israel won, I'm happy.

yeah.. lol thats why 500k lebanese people are celebrating..

Yes the world is safer,

No it is not.

No airline Hijacking since 9/11

They have found more effective - suicide bombings.. there have been so many its not countable.. bali bombings... the bombings in mumbai, the bombins london...- i think they have found more effective ways to kill.

No attacks on US mainland very safe for americans,

there have been hardly any attack on us mainlaind anyway apart pearl harbor and 9/11 doesnt mean its safer.

significant decline in suicide bombings in Israel (thanks to West bank wall)

.
I wouldnt think so -- there was 4000 rockets fired into Israel a few months ago.. and few soldiers kidnapped...

Most importantly awakening of western countries on the danger islamic extremism, now most intelligence agency including AIS are able to catch would be suicide bombers in melbourne and MI5 recent success in exposing terror network in the UK. Now I can travel peacefully knowing that the security is more stringen then ever before with Air Marshall on board.

whats to say they werent catching them before, just that media really werent too interested in reporting it.

The legitimacy will be whether Iran complies with UN resolution

Has America or israel complied with UN resolutions?

As the World's one and only superpower US have the right to invade other countries which threaten to destroy other countries.

thats a stupid thing to say- clearly america position int he world was test with 9/11 attacks and now the war in iraq and afghanistan which after so many years hasnt been solved - is this going to be the longest war?

You may cry foul about equality of each countries, in reality USA and monaco will never be on equal footing, which is evident in the settings of UN security council with veto power.

Its not about equality - its about being responsible and doing the right thing. America has not done the right things - its soldiers treated the iraqi prisoners to atrocious ways..u should know about this how different is it from the concentration camps? why is it any different? from what hitler did?

Lastly, US does not accept the use of evidence gathered from torture, those terrorists including David Hicks or other Al Qaeda maybe tortured (which I think they truly deserve it) their confession will not be used as evidence when they are put on tria

l.
How so? torture doesnt achieve anythin im opinion it shows that america is weak. u might think torture might get results - but in the end it only creates hatred. there is democracy, and America clearly is violating -its hypocritcal.

U havent really said anything apart from AMerica and ISrael are good guys. Just look beyond them.. just think and use your brain.. there are so many solutions to a problem and there is always a way to do things.

America clearly has done the wrong thing and it fails to admit it. what was reason to invade afghanistan?

what was reason to invade to iraq? it was to overthrow saddam - it was because iraq had WMDs? and then they changed to 'overthrow saddam'? Saddam might have done a lot of bad things - no doubt but he did have IRaq under control maybe in the wrong ways. But America is not any better.

 

[HotShot]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Ummm no East Asia is very heavily dependent on exporting to the US. If the US economy crashed china, japan and india's economy would crash. The EU would follow. Once the dust had settled the world would probably look quite similar though the US share of world gdp might be slightly lower. One things for sure Africa and the arab middle east would still be way, way behind as always.

Not necesarily... China and india and asia in particular would manage between themselves. Not doubt they will grow a depression but they will recover.

America is strong enough to take on the next 3 or 4 countries below the US combined and win, Iraq and Iran are nobody's. Only 150000 of the available 500000 troops are in Iraq, not even mentioning the 700000 reserves and guardsmen, or the fact that Israel will play a large part in tearing Iran to pieces. Also the US has quite a few allies, Israel, UK, and yep, us.

Without the allies.. the US are will struggle to hold 2 let alone 3 countries. At the moment they are stuggling militarily and economically. The casualities are growing daily. If they had so many men why dont they just pile them up in iraq and afghnistan overload the place and then capture saddam and secure iraq? because its not possible. America economy has been totally shattered ever since the 9/11 attack, its only now its growing slowly. ITs expenditure is soaring.. they couldnt even handle a natural disaster and you are saying they can 2 or 3 countries on full scale war? they might win.. but it wont be easy.

The use of nuke by america would be disastrous it allies will be quick to change their stance, the world will arm themselves - none can trust america. Israel themselves dont trust america. so how do you expect a country that struggling to manage a natural disaster, and struggling to find control in the middle east to take on IRan? by themselves...

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

7th Century- that has been going on for ages, With american intervention the situation no doubt has worsened. by the american military casualities surpassed the casualities from the 9/11 attack just a little milestone.

Whether america intervene or not Shite and Sunni will keep killing eachother, american casualties are price to pay for keeping america safe , there are no regrets.

yeah.. lol thats why 500k lebanese people are celebrating..

Yes they celebrate the death of 500 terorist + 700 lebanese civilian death, they love celebrating.

They have found more effective - suicide bombings.. there have been so many its not countable.. bali bombings... the bombings in mumbai, the bombins london...- i think they have found more effective ways to kill.

Suicide bombings happned hundreds of times before iraq invasion, and who are killed mostly by suicide bombers? the majority are muslims, more than 6000 people killed the past 2 months in iraq, they sure know who and how to kill. There were so many terrorists attacks in Bombay before, and the recent bombings has nothing to do with USA.

there have been hardly any attack on us mainlaind anyway apart pearl harbor and 9/11 doesnt mean its safer.

No attacks=Safe
.
I wouldnt think so -- there was 4000 rockets fired into Israel a few months ago.. and few soldiers kidnapped...

And they got half of lebanon destroyed 1200 dead , good price to pay for firing rockets.

Has America or israel complied with UN resolutions?
When did America refused to comply with UN resolution? You may aswell ask yourself how many times Un resolution ahs been defied by Syria, iran, iraq as well instead of pointing fingers at Israel.


thats a stupid thing to say- clearly america position int he world was test with 9/11 attacks and now the war in iraq and afghanistan which after so many years hasnt been solved - is this going to be the longest war?

1st ww last about 4 yrs 2nd ww about 6 years , vietnam war about 10 years, maybe they'll stay there forever who knows as far as I know , 100 iraqis are killed eachday by other iraqis or their fellow muslims.

Its not about equality - its about being responsible and doing the right thing. America has not done the right things - its soldiers treated the iraqi prisoners to atrocious ways..u should know about this how different is it from the concentration camps? why is it any different? from what hitler did?

A responsible country would invade Iraq and depose saddam hussain, it was the right thing to do. You may ask yourself does the majority of muslims condone suicide bomings and killings of innocent people by muslim terrorist? I guess not, America neither promote nor allowed atrocities towards prisoners, those who commit the offence are in fact, being put on trial in USA with many facing possibility of death sentence and many already convicted. As a hater of usa you always fail to see those rehabilitations and justice being served by america. The difference with hiter is America dont kill:
5.1–6.0 million Jews, including 3.0–3.5 million Polish Jews
1.8 –1.9 million non-Jewish Poles.
500,000–1.2 million Serbs
200,000–800,000 Roma & Sinti
200,000–300,000 people with disabilities
80,000–200,000 Freemasons
100,000 communists
10,000–25,000 homosexual men
2,500-5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses

Nor any equivalent number of iraqis or terrorists.

[source:wiki]

How so? torture doesnt achieve anythin im opinion it shows that america is weak. u might think torture might get results - but in the end it only creates hatred. there is democracy, and America clearly is violating -its hypocritcal.

I speak on my behalf, I love it when terrorists are tortured, I want to see them suffer the pain and I want to see them despair in their small cell inside Guantanamo. I want to see them think about their past and what they have done to other innocent people. Well if you think america is weak, your being deluded. Whether terrorists are tortured or not they hate us, they hate the west, they hate Europeans, they hate non muslims. No matter what you do they are going to hate you unless you conform to their idea of islamic teachings.

U havent really said anything apart from AMerica and ISrael are good guys. Just look beyond them.. just think and use your brain.. there are so many solutions to a problem and there is always a way to do things.

Solutions such as:???

America clearly has done the wrong thing and it fails to admit it. what was reason to invade afghanistan?

To kill Osama Bin Laden and to overthrow Taliban regime who gave him refuge and to destroy terrorist training camps and i nfrastructure in Afghanistan. And most importantly to liberate afghans opressed by Taliban islamic laws where women are beheaded for wearing lipstick or stoned to death for being raped!

what was reason to invade to iraq? it was to overthrow saddam - it was because iraq had WMDs? and then they changed to 'overthrow saddam'? Saddam might have done a lot of bad things - no doubt but he did have IRaq under control maybe in the wrong ways. But America is not any better

Just ask a Shia or a Kurd from iraq

 

[Iron]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

I'm all for the invasion of Afghanistan. It was a super decision and an appropriate response to s11.

Al-qaeda was behind s11 > the Taliban knowingly harboured and assisted al-qaeda > Al-qaeda was an arm of the Taliban state > s11 = Taliban.
How could the US not act against them?

The Afghanistan mission is a noble and glorious one indeed.

 

[The Logical One]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

The use of a nuke by any country would be disastrous, and in nobodies agenda. There is only one scenario in which I see the U.S using a nuke and that is after N.Korea uses one. All the U.S has to do to trigger such as attack is to further pressure the N.Korean economy, and squeeze anything which has been left.

The U.S has the poorest international policies, and it's appauling to see a super power exercise it's control over the economy as a means of attacking other countries. However, there is one thing you've overlooked. The U.S.A is dependant on Oil from the Middle East and other countries. That's the only reason why the U.S is attacking the middle eastern countries. It is 'dependant' on the Oil, it would otherwise not be able to maintain an adequate supply of energy to the people. If this did happen (even if only for a few months), it would cause a domino-effect which could potentially cripple the U.S economy.

This is assuming that they only engage in a quick war, with a few months spent on securing the oil.

The U.S economy thrives on Industry, and business but if the price of a barrel of oil is raised to about $110 USD (which is plausible in heavy warfare) then that would cause a strain on the U.S Industry, raising their expenditure and lowering their profit. This would potentially damage non-monopolistic corporations within the United States. (especially as they import 13,000,000 barrels of oil each day.)

Now, when you combine the effect of that on the GDP and the increased ammount of military costs, from approximately 6% of the GDP devoted to the military and homeland security. With, the 12% which would be needed to maintain these widescale wars. You end up with a crippling blow to the entire economy which would result in investers selling stocks and people not borrowing or loaning.

Eventually it could cripple the economy long enough for the other countries to recover. The U.S would have to increase the import tariffs to protect the crippling non-monopolistic corporations within the U.S which would steer of East Asian exports to the United States.

Either way, commending the bully who beats other kids up and takes their milk money for being able to control the other kids is anti-freedom. I think that you've been roused by your influence to believe that a democratic country would do that.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Aryan at times you are quite correct, and at other times you are completely incorrect. In this post you are quite correct in that the world economy is quite dependant on the U.S economy. But, would you say that if the leader of the U.S was trying to eliminate your people? If it was trying to express itself as a super power by exploiting weaker and smaller countries?

Even though the American economy is strong, it is quite unstable. The American economy is much like the World Trade Centers. It's huge, worth millions and it effects all the surrounding buildings. It's filled with protections, and safeguards and has influence and international recognition.

But, sometimes..... A plane to the side of the building is enough to bring it down to the ground.

If the American economy crashed there would be quite an unstable international period. Then, the other countries would just work directly with each other and there would no longer be the dependancy for the United States.

Do you agree? (or do you choose to be wrong?)

Since America is the biggest donor of aid to other countries and the biggest contributor to UN, I will not say america exploit other countries. tell me which people america tried to eliminate or a country america exploited nowadays?

Let me tell you, the poster Mrs Ellen said the war with Iran and Iraq will exhaust US economy causing them to crash and result in soldiers starvation! In fact War is good for economy, when there is a war, public spending increases, more public spending means more industrial productions to keep up with the govt demand notably defence industry, more production means more jobs are created, more jobs means more taxes are paid, more taxes means govt treasury is overflowed , which means more money is available to spend and the cycle goes on.

The last time US economy crashed was in 1929, the only country not directly effected by that was USSR, because they closed their economy with little or non existent trade with other countries. It effected the whole world, causing starvation from the street of Tokyo to Sydney to London to Berlin to NY. There was an area called the Hungry Mile in Darling harbour in Sydney because people were starving right here in australia because of depression in US economy! Since then, there has not been any depression even during Arab Oil embargo against the West, US economy was able to pull through. Just a minor war with iran or iraq is not going to pull US Economy down! You may bring WTC down but not the economy.

They said China is strong, India is strong but Indian economy is smaller than that of New York State and Chinese Economy is comparable to that of California. Australian economy is smaller than NY state alone! Only if you realize the sheer size of US economy you will stop talking trash about how US economy will collapse over war with Iran!

The U.S.A is dependant on Oil from the Middle East ....... It is 'dependant' on the Oil, it would otherwise not be able to maintain an adequate supply of energy to the people. If this did happen (even if only for a few months), it would cause a domino-effect which could potentially cripple the U.S economy.

the Arab Oil embargo of 1973 hardly crippled US economy, it does effect some heavy industries. Do not forget that Oil seller have to find buyers to get their money. Without Buyers oil means nothing, you cannot eat oil. the middle east needs to export oil to feed their people, foods imported from USA, Australia. Europe etc.

The U.S economy thrives on Industry, and business but if the price of a barrel of oil is raised to about $110 USD

Apart from Aerospace, Hollywood Films and Music are the biggest export of US neither of them depend on Oil!

 

[Serius]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

7th Century- that has been going on for ages, With american intervention the situation no doubt has worsened. by the american military casualities surpassed the casualities from the 9/11 attack just a little milestone.

yeah.. lol thats why 500k lebanese people are celebrating..



No it is not.

They have found more effective - suicide bombings.. there have been so many its not countable.. bali bombings... the bombings in mumbai, the bombins london...- i think they have found more effective ways to kill.


there have been hardly any attack on us mainlaind anyway apart pearl harbor and 9/11 doesnt mean its safer.
.
I wouldnt think so -- there was 4000 rockets fired into Israel a few months ago.. and few soldiers kidnapped...


whats to say they werent catching them before, just that media really werent too interested in reporting it.

Has America or israel complied with UN resolutions?


thats a stupid thing to say- clearly america position int he world was test with 9/11 attacks and now the war in iraq and afghanistan which after so many years hasnt been solved - is this going to be the longest war?


Its not about equality - its about being responsible and doing the right thing. America has not done the right things - its soldiers treated the iraqi prisoners to atrocious ways..u should know about this how different is it from the concentration camps? why is it any different? from what hitler did?

l.
How so? torture doesnt achieve anythin im opinion it shows that america is weak. u might think torture might get results - but in the end it only creates hatred. there is democracy, and America clearly is violating -its hypocritcal.

U havent really said anything apart from AMerica and ISrael are good guys. Just look beyond them.. just think and use your brain.. there are so many solutions to a problem and there is always a way to do things.

America clearly has done the wrong thing and it fails to admit it. what was reason to invade afghanistan?

what was reason to invade to iraq? it was to overthrow saddam - it was because iraq had WMDs? and then they changed to 'overthrow saddam'? Saddam might have done a lot of bad things - no doubt but he did have IRaq under control maybe in the wrong ways. But America is not any better.

Godwins law. You lose

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

For those who say Lebanese support Hizbollah:



BEIRUT, Lebanon - An anti-Syrian Christian leader dismissed Hezbollah's claims of victory in its war with Israel as tens of thousands of his supporters rallied Sunday in a show of strength that highlighted Lebanon's sharp divisions.

The rally north of Beirut came just two days after a massive gathering by the rival Shiite Muslim Hezbollah that attracted hundreds of thousands. The two sides have been at sharp odds over the future of the Lebanese government since this summer's Israeli-Hezbollah war.

Samir Geagea, a notorious former leader of a Christian militia, scoffed at Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah's declaration that his guerrillas achieved "a victory" against Israel.

"I don't feel victory because the majority of the Lebanese people do not feel victory. Rather, they feel that a major catastrophe had befallen them and made their present and future uncertain," he said.

Hezbollah's fight with Israel sent its support soaring among Shiites. But a large sector — particularly among Christians and Sunni Muslims — opposes Hezbollah and resents it for provoking the monthlong fight by capturing two Israeli soldiers on July 12.

link

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Surprise to those who says Iraiqs want US to leave Iraq

IRAQI President Jalal Talabani has called for a long-term US military presence in Iraq, saying his country will need two permanent US air bases to deter "foreign interference."

"I think we will be in need of American forces for a long time -- even two military bases to prevent foreign interference,'' Mr Talabani said in an interview with The Washington Post.

"I don't ask to have 100,000 American soldiers - 10,000 soldiers and two air bases would be enough.''

The President indicated the bases would most welcome in Kurdistan, an autonomous region in northern Iraq that has practiced de facto self-government since the 1991 Gulf War.

But he suggested that the Sunni Arab segment of the Iraqi population would also welcome a long-term US military presence in Iraq.

"In some places Sunnis want the Americans to stay," he said. "Sunnis think the main danger is coming from Iran now."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20472407-1702,00.html

 

[withoutaface]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5358486.stm

Could be a bad idea.

It's funny because it'd cripple Venezuala's economy as well.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Duh, he's a communist.

 

[The Logical One]

Re: War with Iran close, and US forces likely already on the ground- USAF Colonel (re

Duh, he's a communist.

What's wrong with being a communist? I'm a communist.
Communism is ideological and utopian and if communism was done properly (without corruption) the world would be a better place. How can we accept that even the richest nation in the world (the U.S.A) has 24,000,000 people living below the internationally recognised POVERTY levels? Communism FTW! [for the win]